Beginner MTB

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Hey fellas,

Coming from road bike(currently own '17 Giant Defy Advanced 1), I really have limited knowledge of mountain bikes - I have no idea which fork is better/good enough. This is going to be my first MTB.

I am on the fence between Trek Roscoe 8 and Stache 5, they are both on sale and similarly priced.

I will be taking it to beginner type of MTB trails, and some commuting/pleasure ride on pavement - grass.

Some of my "good-to-have"s are: Aluminum frame - hydraulic disc - dropper post and definitely less than $2k CAD.

For a beginner, which one would you choose, and why?

https://www.trekbikes.com/ca/en_CA/...stache/stache-5/p/23107/?colorCode=black

https://www.trekbikes.com/ca/en_CA/...coe/roscoe-8/p/23608/?colorCode=greydark

As a third option, Giant Fathom 1 - It wouldn't be my first choice as it has dull color and I already have 1 Giant bike, I would like to try different brand. However, they are on sale 20% off which is not bad.

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ca/fathom-1

I look forward to hearing your opinions. Thanks in advance.

Dan
 
Welcome to mtbs. 27.5+ and 29+ tires are great, they damp the sharp hits and have super traction but they roll pretty slow on pavement. the 29+ will be a bit slower to turn than the 27.5+ tires. For your stated use a dropper is a waste of good money. (worst $400 I ever spent on a piece of bike gear). When you start doing extreme terrain or shred downhills get one. Discs of course but don't discount mechanicals, you won't out-ride them on your first mtb.

You could easily be happy with 27.5 or 29 normal width rims/tires for your needs.
 
I'm not up to date on current MTB drivetrain gear, so I won't try to give you any misguided advice there. I do notice the Roscoe uses a SRAM shifter and derailleur, while the Stache uses Shimano. It might be worth doing some digging on forums to see how those parts are reviewed. I know MTBR was a pretty active forum - not sure how it is these days.

The front forks are also different between the two bikes. Those might be worth researching as well.

I used to spend a ridiculous amount of time on the roadbikereview dot com forums, and there were two pieces of advice that seemed to always be repeated. First, test ride the bikes you are interested in. If it doesn't fit, you won't like it long term. Second, barring major differences in frame materials, bikes are mostly a collection of components. If the major components are good (drivetrain, shocks in the case of MTB), you'll likely be in good shape. If you decide down the road you want a different handlebar width or something, no big deal.
 
The wheel size will depend on what kind of trails you'll be riding. If there is a lot of sharp turns and switchbacks, 27.5" has the advantage.

If you're going over a lot of obstacles like down trees, 29-er has the advantage.

Sram vs Shimano? I prefer SRAM's cage lock for maintenance with the wheel and chain.

Pleasure ride on pavement? Good luck with that. It's not a pleasure riding a mountain bike on pavement. Prefer a road bike on pavement.

Dropper seat post? How technical are you going to go downhill? If you plan to immediately go technical trails, then a dropper seat post will help to position your body better for traction and most importantly control.

Are you going to go clipless?

Technically you can ride a gravel or cyclocross bike on beginner MTB trails.
 
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Well you're looking at a couple of different riding experiences comparing the mid fats to the 29er.

The mid fats (27.5 plus) I find are very forgiving for mountain bikers in technical terrain...it just makes mountain biking so much easier. But you're looking at hard tail bikes - it could get a little bouncy and it will be a little slow on pavement (thought you said you might be doing some pavement riding). I personally love the 27.5 plus and I've ridden everything. And you can ride in the snow with 27.5 plus.

The 29er is going to be a little tough to navigate on tight trails for a beginner, but you can get some great speed and momentum with those wheels...and when you get good, be able to roll over stuff that you wouldn't be able to with a standard 27.5. But the 27.5 plus can roll over the difficult stuff too. 29er is very popular - much more popular I think than the 27.5 plus, but I think for a beginner, the plus will be much more forgiving. Personally I think the 29er bike that you listed looks FANTASTIC! It just looks nice...the color combo/everything. So in terms of pure looks, I'd go with this bike. But for beginning mountain biking I'd go with the trek plus size bike. I wouldn't even consider the Giant - that thing is so putrid looking that I wouldn't even be caught dead on it - I know looks aren't everything, but when all things are almost equal?? That's a deal breaker.

And I wouldn't worry much about fork quality, they all had the same travel and you're not going to be testing the limits of yourself or these bikes anyway. The drive trains all have the single sprocket up front, which is great.

So for looks and on street versatility, I'd go with the 29er. For a little more pure difficult technical terrain, I'd go with the plus bike trek. And I've used both drive trains...I'd go with the Shimano Deore over the Sram (29er bike)...the derailur sticks out too far on the SRAM and you'll hit it on something. The Shimano is in a little tighter. I've replaced 3 of my SRAMS because of this. I find the Shimano stays in adjustment a little longer too. Wish my current bike had the Shimano drive train.
 
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How tall is the OP?

Both are great bikes. If you're taller, the Stache will feel fantastic. I'm 6'5" and I ride a Surly Krampus which is 29+ like the Stache. I LOVE that bike. I rode that bike rigid and stopped riding my full suspension Specialized Stumpjumper. Now I have a Rockshox Yari fork on the Krampus and it's even better.

I feel you're on the right track looking at plus tire bikes. I build wheels and can't remember the last set of wheels I built for "skinny" (2.2-2.35") mtb tires. I do Plus and fat almost entirely.
Actually, height doesn't even play into the 29+ thing... I ride with a regular group and I'm the tallest by far. Other guys are 5'8", 5'9"... No one in our group has 27.5+. One guy's wife has it. She's like 5'1". My son has been on 29+ since he's ten or eleven.

MTB tires should be set up tubeless. It works awesome and I haven't had a flat in forever. Look into that as well if you aren't already privy.

I just looked at both bikes. I really like the tires on the Stache. I run the XR2 on the rear on my Krampus. Great tire. I would probably swap the front tire for an XR4 and keep the front XR2 to use when the first one wears out. You'll carve corners like a surgeon with that combo.
Another suggestion would be this... The fork on the Stache is fine if you're under 200 pounds. I need more beef. The Machete has 32mm stantions so it can get a little noodly. I might buy that bike and put a rigid fork on it and a 3.25" wide Vee Bulldozer for a front tire. I'm not sure if you're aware but plus tires run a low pressures, like 15 psi. You'd be surprised how forgiving that combination can be. Maybe sell off the Machete as a new takeoff and get a Rockshox Yari or Manitou Mattock? I forgot which Manitou takes 29+ and has 34mm stantions. I currently have the Vee Bulldozer in my Yari suspension fork and it fits great.

The Roscoe has a 12 speed drivetrain which is really nice but it's NX so it's kinda entry level. Shimano Deore on the Stache is a proven group.
 
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Thanks for all input, I really appreciate your help.

I am 6'1 and 230 lbs and I will use SPD clipless (I already have Shimano A530 and shoes from previous hybrid bike).

I won't be able to push the limits of the fork, but my weight will not be easy on them
laugh.gif


In regards to the dropper post: I won't be doing any extreme MTBing for now but I would prefer to buy it with the dropper post as I don't want to sell/upgrade it in the short term.
 
Just a quick question, have you ever ridden a mountain bike on a trail before? I ask because I know a lot of roadies that think they want to switch, then do and I don't like the beating you can take.
 
Originally Posted by jcartwright99
Just a quick question, have you ever ridden a mountain bike on a trail before? I ask because I know a lot of roadies that think they want to switch, then do and I don't like the beating you can take.

Not sure I follow what this comment meant.

I keep toying around getting a mountain bike, but I haven't done any riding since college--been out a couple times but not too much. Always makes me real sad to pedal a heavy bike up a dirt road, just feels soooo sloooowwww.... comparatively speaking to my road bike (and I'm not even that fast on it either). I have taken my road bike off-road on the gentle stuff, and boy do those Conti 4000's not like rocks real well. They also seem to have lousy traction in mud for some reason. I'd do a cross bike but they usually don't come as a triple; usually they are kinda geared too high for what I'd do.
 
I own a Trek hybrid, a Dual Sport . I ride it 60 % on pavement, 40 % on smooth gravel paths. It has proven to be just fine for the riding I ACTUALLY do, as opposed to the riding I thought I might do ...

Be careful with the pure mountain bikes if you plan on commuting or riding streets / smooth gravel trails. The move to 1x and 2x drive trains means that a pure mountain bike is almost always geared too low to comfortably ride on pavement. My bike has a 48t/38t/28t chain ring, with a 11 to 32 cassette. I find the 38f 11r combo to be useable riding on pavement, and occasionally get into the 48t ring when hustling on pavement.

The 2020 Roscoe 8 comes with a 1x drive train, using a 30t front ring and a 11 to 50 rear cassette. This means you really sacrifice top end speed to get crazy low hill climbing gears. A couple of friends who bought pure mountain bikes found that they just did not work very well for the type of riding they did most often. One guy moved to "gravel .. " spec road bike with drop bars, and the other to a top line hybrid style bike. Both are much happier cyclists now ... !
 
The Stache has an even lower 28t front ring ... the same as the SMALLEST ring on my bike, which I almost never use except to climb really steep stuff.

Good looking bike ... !

[Linked Image]
 
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The question you need to ask yourself is ... are you planning on riding the bike TO/FROM the trails / off road / single track stuff ? Or do you plan on driving to those places, then riding ? If you are driving to the trails, then the pure mountain bike is the better choice. If you plan on cycling to the trails, pay attention to the gearing on the bike you choose. 1x drivetrains are the hot ticket on current mid to high level mountain bikes, but a 2x would give you way more useable gears when casual riding on streets or light trails.
 
If you're not short in height I'd go for the Stache, and even then... Unless you're really short...
29" tire do roll noticeably better than 27.5" tire and the whole "slower steering" thing is pretty much a hold-over from when they first came out and they hadn't quite figured out the geometry with the bigger wheels yet. They use 29ers in DH and Enduro and have you seen a world cup XC course recently? Pretty technical and XC is 100% 29er. All that to say any handling differences are a non-issue.
I don't think you'd like the plus tires, they're pickier in terms of pressure and they won't roll as well on the paved surfaces.
I'd worry about the fork on the Giant... I know SR Suntour make some higher-end stuff but you don't really see much of it... They're all 120mm of travel so that's a wash.
They all have 1x drivetrains and dropper posts so that's not a deciding factor.
Shimano vs SRAM? It's a feel thing, not a performance thing, SRAM feels a bit more mechanical, Shimano feels a bit smoother but they both do the job just as well. I wouldn't consider it a factor when choosing a bike.
The Treks look nicer (that orange on the Giant is a bit dated looking IMHO).

So, for your use, I'd vote the Stache.
 
Three things I'd never go without again on a mountain bike: Full suspension, a 1x drivetrain and a dropper post.
 
Originally Posted by E365
Three things I'd never go without again on a mountain bike: Full suspension, a 1x drivetrain and a dropper post.


Full suspension is understandable, but why you wouldn't want 1x drivetrain and a dropper post?
 
Originally Posted by dgunay
Originally Posted by E365
Three things I'd never go without again on a mountain bike: Full suspension, a 1x drivetrain and a dropper post.


Full suspension is understandable, but why you wouldn't want 1x drivetrain and a dropper post?


I probably didn't word that very well. Full suspension, 1x and dropper posts are now must-haves for me.
 
Originally Posted by E365
Originally Posted by dgunay
Originally Posted by E365
Three things I'd never go without again on a mountain bike: Full suspension, a 1x drivetrain and a dropper post.


Full suspension is understandable, but why you wouldn't want 1x drivetrain and a dropper post?


I probably didn't word that very well. Full suspension, 1x and dropper posts are now must-haves for me.


Sorry I need to go get my eyes checked
lol.gif
My bad.
 
Originally Posted by geeman789
The question you need to ask yourself is ... are you planning on riding the bike TO/FROM the trails / off road / single track stuff ? Or do you plan on driving to those places, then riding ? If you are driving to the trails, then the pure mountain bike is the better choice. If you plan on cycling to the trails, pay attention to the gearing on the bike you choose. 1x drivetrains are the hot ticket on current mid to high level mountain bikes, but a 2x would give you way more useable gears when casual riding on streets or light trails.



I will be driving to MTB trails around Greater Toronto Area. Maybe around Southern Ontario. So I think 1x would be the best option.
 
Originally Posted by dgunay
Originally Posted by geeman789
The question you need to ask yourself is ... are you planning on riding the bike TO/FROM the trails / off road / single track stuff ? Or do you plan on driving to those places, then riding ? If you are driving to the trails, then the pure mountain bike is the better choice. If you plan on cycling to the trails, pay attention to the gearing on the bike you choose. 1x drivetrains are the hot ticket on current mid to high level mountain bikes, but a 2x would give you way more useable gears when casual riding on streets or light trails.



I will be driving to MTB trails around Greater Toronto Area. Maybe around Southern Ontario. So I think 1x would be the best option.


Back in the day, before 1x, people (including me)with triple cranks used to remove the biggest chain ring and put a bashguard in its place. 1x is great because there is no front derailleur, AND most importantly, no chain drops while shifting gears up front.
 
I was waiting for any component of the 2x10 drivetrain on my fat bike to fail so I could justify swapping a 1x11 or 12 drivetrain. I built myself a Surly Krampus about two years ago and went 1x11. I used RaceFace Aeffect cranks annd a Wolftooth direct mount chain ring.
After a few rides to become familiar with not having a granny ring anymore, I've grown to really like it. I'll be doing a frame swap on my fattie soon and will update to 1x12 when I do.

My son (15 yo) has only ever ridden 2x10 drivetrains. He'll be due a larger frame very soon and I told him he'll be making the jump to a one by drivetrain. He's a little bummed. I keep telling him he'll be fine.
 
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