Recent Topics
M1 ESP 0W30 (8200 km run for an 2018 VW Golf R)
by 21Rouge - 10/21/19 05:11 PM
Allis Chalmers 50/50 4X4
by mem - 10/21/19 05:03 PM
Grand Cherokee Knock sound when using 4WD Low?
by John344 - 10/21/19 04:58 PM
Ecogard Synthetic + S4651
by kstanf150 - 10/21/19 04:52 PM
2015+ F150 SuperCab Rear Seat Room
by The Critic - 10/21/19 04:52 PM
New Michelin Endurance XT silicone wipers
by faramir9 - 10/21/19 04:15 PM
Any deals on Brake Cleaner and Engine Decreaser?
by eddielasvegas - 10/21/19 04:07 PM
Applying RTV Gasket Maker
by perfect_oil - 10/21/19 04:00 PM
Husky Liner floor mat clips
by HoosierJeeper - 10/21/19 03:57 PM
Black Grit in Fuel Tank - What Is It?
by Auae85 - 10/21/19 03:48 PM
Fram Racing HP17 Cut open w/pictures
by geeman789 - 10/21/19 03:27 PM
NAPA GOLD 1372, Bosch filter and Prime Guard 4651
by 53' Stude - 10/21/19 03:03 PM
Using HDEO's in Gasoline Engines
by The Critic - 10/21/19 02:59 PM
CRC Heavy Duty Pro Degreaser
by LeakySeals - 10/21/19 02:43 PM
ramps under $50...seeking recommendations
by kmrcstintn - 10/21/19 02:04 PM
1st 100K mile Tesla Model 3
by JeffKeryk - 10/21/19 01:06 PM
Who would want me to do a C&P
by cwilliamsws6 - 10/21/19 12:33 PM
Thoughts on a 2006 Nissan Altima purchase.
by LeakySeals - 10/21/19 12:33 PM
How to stop corroding batteries?
by cwilliamsws6 - 10/21/19 12:14 PM
Newest Members
kluthage421, Fred_A, Kanevex, DoorDing, seanwhalen
69635 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
103 registered members (AdditiveOCD, 2015_PSD, AEHaas, 53' Stude, 14 invisible), 2,197 guests, and 22 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics296,290
Posts5,094,929
Members69,635
Most Online3,532
Jul 30th, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Sure you could use anti-seize on your studs, but??? #5219582 09/22/19 10:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,289
T
Traction Offline OP
OP Offline
T
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,289
For everyone that thinks using anti-seize on wheel studs is a great idea, you might want to think about it more. Sure it will torque up and clamp the living do-do up really tight, but at the same time it is also can stretch the stud beyond the yield point to the point they could just snap. Yes sometimes a stud could use a touch of like WD-40 to free us a rusty stud, otherwise there is too much friction, and then the clamping force of the wheel can be to low. Dry, clean wheels studs, and a good torque wrench is the correct way.
Here are a couple of pages from my training manual, which has examples of the what the effect of putting lube on the studs, which can DOUBLE the clamping force, which turn into tons of force. Proper clamping force is the key to keeping the wheels attached to your vehicle.
Also, excessive clamping forces will probably distort, and damage the lug nut seats on the wheel, and brake rotor. And who knows what damage there is to the actual threads on the nut/stud.

IMG_6824.JPGIMG_6821.JPG
Last edited by Traction; 09/22/19 10:14 AM.

Certified Tire Service Instructor since 2009
50 Chevy Fire Truck
13 Tahoe Pursuit
97 C5 Corvette
00 BMW M Roadster
02 Camry
12 Camry
81 Camaro
55 Chevy C4
Re: Sure you could use anti-seize on your studs, but??? [Re: Traction] #5219586 09/22/19 10:09 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 297
J
jrvn Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 297
whats clamping force?

Re: Sure you could use anti-seize on your studs, but??? [Re: Traction] #5219589 09/22/19 10:14 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
L
leeharvey418 Offline
Offline
L
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
I used to work in concrete testing, inspecting labs to make sure they were operating consistently. One of the inspection items was making sure the lab wasn’t using grease on the spherical seat of the compression test machine’s head. Oil will squeeze out of the joint under static load and the metal to metal contact will lock the head in place. Grease in the joint will never fully squeeze out, and the test specimen can kick violently out to the side when it starts to fail.

Any time I’m counting on friction to hold a joint together, I don’t want anything in the middle that could allow the connection to move.


2014 Mazda CX-9 Touring AWD
2019 Mazda CX-5 Signature
Re: Sure you could use anti-seize on your studs, but??? [Re: jrvn] #5219590 09/22/19 10:14 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
L
leeharvey418 Offline
Offline
L
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Originally Posted by jrvn
whats clamping force?

It’s the thing that keeps your wheels from falling off.


2014 Mazda CX-9 Touring AWD
2019 Mazda CX-5 Signature
Re: Sure you could use anti-seize on your studs, but??? [Re: Traction] #5219612 09/22/19 10:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 14,160
C
CT8 Offline
Offline
C
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 14,160
The advantage of anti seize is to seal the open parts of the threads.


2015 F150 2.7
2018 F350 6.2
Re: Sure you could use anti-seize on your studs, but??? [Re: Traction] #5219623 09/22/19 10:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,269
J
JeffKeryk Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,269
I use a tiny bit of anti seize to avoid galling the threads. On spark plugs as well.
Of course I do clean the threads.

I understand there are reasons against this; this is just what I do.


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
Re: Sure you could use anti-seize on your studs, but??? [Re: Traction] #5219630 09/22/19 11:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 14,080
R
Rand Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 14,080
Right, this has been posted here about 180 times.

I still use a very small amount of boeshield-t9 on the threads none on the seat/head.. much better than replacing studs or spindles(lug bolts) in salt country.

Last edited by Rand; 09/22/19 11:05 AM.

2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk 2.0T
2020 Hyundai Elantra "Value Edition"
Re: Sure you could use anti-seize on your studs, but??? [Re: Traction] #5219638 09/22/19 11:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,590
H
hallstevenson Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,590
I posted in the other thread about Walmart doing this based on it being, apparently, their "corporate policy". If that's the case, you can be certain that they had a team of lawyers investigate this from a liability standpoint (no, I don't mean the lawyers got into mechanical calculations, etc, etc - they hire folks who deal with this stuff). If putting anti-seize on lug nuts is going to cause them to fall off and a wheel fall off, Walmart isn't going to go this route.

Re: Sure you could use anti-seize on your studs, but??? [Re: Traction] #5219640 09/22/19 11:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,217
M
maxdustington Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,217
I don't think it's a 100% increase. I thought lubed threads got 15-20% less torque than dry?

100% seems like fasteners would be getting stipped like crazy, especially larger suspension fasteners that you almost have to anti sieze in the rustbelt and are likely to gun back on without a torque wrench.


97 GMC RCLB K2500LD L30/4L60
Re: Sure you could use anti-seize on your studs, but??? [Re: Traction] #5219646 09/22/19 11:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,322
K
Kestas Offline
Global Moderator
Offline
Global Moderator
K
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,322
Wheel studs are part of our business. We have actually run controlled studies trying to duplicate the damage seen in the field. Antiseize on the threads will not elongate and neck threads. We have seen damaged studs when people get happy with the antiseize and slather it on the nut mounting face as well as the threads, then torque to specification.

I also found automotive wheel studs don't neck until applied torque is around 4X specification.

For truck studs we specify two drops of oil on the threads before torquing to specification.

Re: Sure you could use anti-seize on your studs, but??? [Re: Rand] #5219649 09/22/19 11:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,083
D
doitmyself Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,083
Originally Posted by Rand
Right, this has been posted here about 180 times.

LOL, probably more! I'm concerned about the effects of lube on torque as much as anybody else here with OCD. There is no consensus. How does Permatex get away with stating this on their anti seize tech sheet: "Reassemble parts using normal torque values." https://441py33rout1ptjxn2lupv31-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/tech_docs/tds/80208.pdf

I use it as others above do, knowledgeable of the possible effects if used incorrectly. Also, engineering sites state that torque wrench use has a +/- 30% error range and that fasteners are designed for this.

Re: Sure you could use anti-seize on your studs, but??? [Re: Traction] #5219658 09/22/19 12:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,581
T
Trav Offline
Offline
T
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,581
You have to take into account that the manufacturer may have published the spec with lubed threads. Most Euro car that use wheel bolts should have the threads and shoulder lubed (many U.S. owners manuals omit this for liability issues when some monkey lathers them up, anyone that has owned one in the salt belt that was installed dry knows why). There is no problem with a thin coat of never seize on lugs either, the wheel will not loosen and fall off, aluminum wheels should be retorqued after 100km always. From a FSM..

[Linked Image]


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Sure you could use anti-seize on your studs, but??? [Re: Traction] #5219661 09/22/19 12:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,289
T
Traction Offline OP
OP Offline
T
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,289
The thread title said "Sure you could use anti-seize". But everyone still seems to totally ignore the effect on wheel clamping force, which is going to over-stretch the wheel stud no matter how you justify it when using lube. If it make the nut easier to turn, it is going to turn much further before it comes up to the specified torque with the stud getting longer. How can that be the best practice, especially on cars that have quality plated studs, and lug nuts that still look new for years. Rusty, poorly maintained fasteners, all bets are off. Then it's always more of just a guess when using lube. I've torqued well over 50,000 lug nuts in the last 17 years, and have seen plenty of issues, and depending on the condition of the fastener, sometimes like on a German wheel bolt a little anti-seize is needed, but not every car needs it. It's mostly common sense.

Last edited by Traction; 09/22/19 12:13 PM.

Certified Tire Service Instructor since 2009
50 Chevy Fire Truck
13 Tahoe Pursuit
97 C5 Corvette
00 BMW M Roadster
02 Camry
12 Camry
81 Camaro
55 Chevy C4
Re: Sure you could use anti-seize on your studs, but??? [Re: Traction] #5219664 09/22/19 12:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,590
H
hallstevenson Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,590
You've stated your belief. Leave it at that and move on. 98% of folks are going to keep doing what they've been doing - "I've been doing it for 42 years with no issues". If you convince the other 2%, be happy.

Re: Sure you could use anti-seize on your studs, but??? [Re: hallstevenson] #5219672 09/22/19 12:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,289
T
Traction Offline OP
OP Offline
T
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,289
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
You've stated your belief. Leave it at that and move on. 98% of folks are going to keep doing what they've been doing - "I've been doing it for 42 years with no issues". If you convince the other 2%, be happy.

Did you even read the charts at the top of the page? Maybe not an issue, but that still doesn't always make it right.


Certified Tire Service Instructor since 2009
50 Chevy Fire Truck
13 Tahoe Pursuit
97 C5 Corvette
00 BMW M Roadster
02 Camry
12 Camry
81 Camaro
55 Chevy C4
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™