Is fuel dilution taken into account when they recommend xw-20?
- Thread starter Whammo
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Why don't they just make the car industry fix their engineering problem rather than pushing it on the consumer?
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Why don't they just make the car industry fix their engineering problem rather than pushing it on the consumer?
Maybe since DI appears to be best utilized on engines that once started are run for hours on end (think OTR diesel), it cannot be adequately engineered for use in gasoline engines that might be cold-started multiple times a day and then not run long enough to even get the oil to operating temperature, much less long enough to vaporize what fuel got in the oil at that cold start (to the extent it can be vaporized).
I would bet that most high-mileage gasoline DI engines with fuel dilution are hardly ever stressed, very well maintained, not short-tripped and likely non-turbocharged.
Why don't they just make the car industry fix their engineering problem rather than pushing it on the consumer?
Maybe since DI appears to be best utilized on engines that once started are run for hours on end (think OTR diesel), it cannot be adequately engineered for use in gasoline engines that might be cold-started multiple times a day and then not run long enough to even get the oil to operating temperature, much less long enough to vaporize what fuel got in the oil at that cold start (to the extent it can be vaporized).
I would bet that most high-mileage gasoline DI engines with fuel dilution are hardly ever stressed, very well maintained, not short-tripped and likely non-turbocharged.
Originally Posted by doyall
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Why don't they just make the car industry fix their engineering problem rather than pushing it on the consumer?
Maybe since DI appears to be best utilized on engines that once started are run for hours on end (think OTR diesel), it cannot be adequately engineered for use in gasoline engines that might be cold-started multiple times a day and then not run long enough to even get the oil to operating temperature, much less long enough to vaporize what fuel got in the oil at that cold start (to the extent it can be vaporized).
Hmmm, intriguing 🤔
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Why don't they just make the car industry fix their engineering problem rather than pushing it on the consumer?
Maybe since DI appears to be best utilized on engines that once started are run for hours on end (think OTR diesel), it cannot be adequately engineered for use in gasoline engines that might be cold-started multiple times a day and then not run long enough to even get the oil to operating temperature, much less long enough to vaporize what fuel got in the oil at that cold start (to the extent it can be vaporized).
Hmmm, intriguing 🤔
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
So what happened … we had it with carbs but less with port injection and now more with DI ?
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Originally Posted by 4WD
So what happened … we had it with carbs but less with port injection and now more with DI ?
It's like fashion ... We'll circle back to mpfi
I hope!
To some extent they have since we are now seeing dual port engines hopefully giving intake valves some wash
Originally Posted by 4WD
So what happened … we had it with carbs but less with port injection and now more with DI ?
It's like fashion ... We'll circle back to mpfi
To some extent they have since we are now seeing dual port engines hopefully giving intake valves some wash
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
Honda sure doesn't
They say to use 0w20 in a turbo (their 1.5T). Oh, and regular gas, too!
(87 octane US, 91 RON)
Much less of a problem with 5w30 and premium
Lol
Honda sure doesn't
They say to use 0w20 in a turbo (their 1.5T). Oh, and regular gas, too!
(87 octane US, 91 RON)
Much less of a problem with 5w30 and premium
Lol
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Why don't they just make the car industry fix their engineering problem rather than pushing it on the consumer?
You're right. Maybe they can't fix it, but it's just good enough for them to get away with it. What I mean is the engines are probably lasting long enough w/o widespread issues to force change, yet.
Why don't they just make the car industry fix their engineering problem rather than pushing it on the consumer?
You're right. Maybe they can't fix it, but it's just good enough for them to get away with it. What I mean is the engines are probably lasting long enough w/o widespread issues to force change, yet.
Originally Posted by Railrust
I often think of this myself...am I just part of a CAFE regulation scheme by the manufacturer to get my vehicle any advantage for a slight uptick in fuel economy, while not doing what is best for my engine because the manufacturer won't be responsible when it's out of warranty.
My truck calls for 0W20, but I wonder if it would be better to run 0W30 or 5W30? I do smell fuel in that oil at times when I empty my catch can....others times not so much. And others that own the GM direct injected 5.3 have reported fuel dilution in their oil samples (and certainly oil consumption).
I believe the answer to that is yes. My 03 altima 2.5 could run 5-30 up to 10-40 per the manual and never used a drop. My 09 (same engine) calls for 5-30 only and was tuned to get around 3mpg more and is an oil pig. Yet Nissan did nothing more than call it acceptable. Back when all the 02 and 03's were eating cats, I got lucky and had one of the best cars ever. Supposedly fixed in the next gen I wound up with my current situation.
I often think of this myself...am I just part of a CAFE regulation scheme by the manufacturer to get my vehicle any advantage for a slight uptick in fuel economy, while not doing what is best for my engine because the manufacturer won't be responsible when it's out of warranty.
My truck calls for 0W20, but I wonder if it would be better to run 0W30 or 5W30? I do smell fuel in that oil at times when I empty my catch can....others times not so much. And others that own the GM direct injected 5.3 have reported fuel dilution in their oil samples (and certainly oil consumption).
I believe the answer to that is yes. My 03 altima 2.5 could run 5-30 up to 10-40 per the manual and never used a drop. My 09 (same engine) calls for 5-30 only and was tuned to get around 3mpg more and is an oil pig. Yet Nissan did nothing more than call it acceptable. Back when all the 02 and 03's were eating cats, I got lucky and had one of the best cars ever. Supposedly fixed in the next gen I wound up with my current situation.
What do most manufactures care about? Getting the car through the warranty and possibly the window for common surveys on reliability. They don't care if your car will do +200K miles but these days just about any car can get through warranty regardless of the oil used and fuel dilution. Matter-of-fact it's in their interest that your car doesn't last so you have to buy a new one...and if the car lasts just long enough and keeps you happy just long enough...hopefully you buy from them.
So no..unless it would have an effect on 0-60K miles I don't think they care what oil grade is best for the very long-term...just which is best for meeting CAFE and warranty obligations. That said, I agree with others that I don't believe I've ever seen real proof that fuel dilution is really a problem. I've seen lots of UOAs with significant fuel dilution and great wear numbers.
So no..unless it would have an effect on 0-60K miles I don't think they care what oil grade is best for the very long-term...just which is best for meeting CAFE and warranty obligations. That said, I agree with others that I don't believe I've ever seen real proof that fuel dilution is really a problem. I've seen lots of UOAs with significant fuel dilution and great wear numbers.
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Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
Honda sure doesn't
They say to use 0w20 in a turbo (their 1.5T). Oh, and regular gas, too!
(87 octane US, 91 RON)
Much less of a problem with 5w30 and premium
What does running 87 vs. 91/93 have to do with fuel dilution in the oil? If the car was tuned to run on 87, it can run on 87 regardless of it having a turbo. The VWs have no issue with it in their current gen turbo 4s..[censored]...even APR has performance tunes out that can run on 87.
Honda sure doesn't
They say to use 0w20 in a turbo (their 1.5T). Oh, and regular gas, too!
(87 octane US, 91 RON)
Much less of a problem with 5w30 and premium
What does running 87 vs. 91/93 have to do with fuel dilution in the oil? If the car was tuned to run on 87, it can run on 87 regardless of it having a turbo. The VWs have no issue with it in their current gen turbo 4s..[censored]...even APR has performance tunes out that can run on 87.
Originally Posted by JoelB
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Evidence suggests that some fuel dilution is not an issue so I imagine yes they took that into consideration.
Couldn't agree more with this. I think fuel dilution is so blown out of proportion around here. We've seen many uoa's of the "terrible" 1.5T honda motors and wear metals aren't bad at all, many are totally acceptable.
But this is BITOG...hahahahahaah
Agreed - everything gets blown out of proportion here!
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Evidence suggests that some fuel dilution is not an issue so I imagine yes they took that into consideration.
Couldn't agree more with this. I think fuel dilution is so blown out of proportion around here. We've seen many uoa's of the "terrible" 1.5T honda motors and wear metals aren't bad at all, many are totally acceptable.
But this is BITOG...hahahahahaah
Agreed - everything gets blown out of proportion here!
Some people claim that the internal engine clearances on engines spec'd for 0W-20 are too tight to run a heavier oil.
The newer Honda 1.5T, for example.
I recently changed the oil on my girlfriend's 2018 Civic Hatchback 6-speed with that engine, and we discussed the fuel dilution issue and I suggested using a heavier grade, but she felt more comfortable going with the factory-recommended grade. She felt that the internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade.
I ended up using Castrol Edge 0W-20 ($22.88 on rollback from Walmart) in her car.
And then there's the fact that the car is under warranty (incidentally, Honda just upgraded the powertrain warranty to unlimited mileage (time remains the same at 5 years) in an attempt to alleviate owners' fears about this engine.
The newer Honda 1.5T, for example.
I recently changed the oil on my girlfriend's 2018 Civic Hatchback 6-speed with that engine, and we discussed the fuel dilution issue and I suggested using a heavier grade, but she felt more comfortable going with the factory-recommended grade. She felt that the internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade.
I ended up using Castrol Edge 0W-20 ($22.88 on rollback from Walmart) in her car.
And then there's the fact that the car is under warranty (incidentally, Honda just upgraded the powertrain warranty to unlimited mileage (time remains the same at 5 years) in an attempt to alleviate owners' fears about this engine.
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Some people claim that the internal engine clearances on engines spec'd for 0W-20 are too tight to run a heavier oil.
She felt that the internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade.
I just watched My Cousin Vinney...can we voir dire your girlfriend to determine why her opinion that "internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade" holds any weight at all outside of a random unfounded opinion?
Some people claim that the internal engine clearances on engines spec'd for 0W-20 are too tight to run a heavier oil.
She felt that the internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade.
I just watched My Cousin Vinney...can we voir dire your girlfriend to determine why her opinion that "internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade" holds any weight at all outside of a random unfounded opinion?
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Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Some people claim that the internal engine clearances on engines spec'd for 0W-20 are too tight to run a heavier oil.
She felt that the internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade.
I just watched My Cousin Vinney...can we voir dire your girlfriend to determine why her opinion that "internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade" holds any weight at all outside of a random unfounded opinion?
So, are you saying she doesn't have a valid point?
She's not the only one who thinks this.
After all, she didn't make it up. She read it somewhere.
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Some people claim that the internal engine clearances on engines spec'd for 0W-20 are too tight to run a heavier oil.
She felt that the internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade.
I just watched My Cousin Vinney...can we voir dire your girlfriend to determine why her opinion that "internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade" holds any weight at all outside of a random unfounded opinion?
So, are you saying she doesn't have a valid point?
She's not the only one who thinks this.
After all, she didn't make it up. She read it somewhere.
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Some people claim that the internal engine clearances on engines spec'd for 0W-20 are too tight to run a heavier oil.
She felt that the internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade.
I just watched My Cousin Vinney...can we voir dire your girlfriend to determine why her opinion that "internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade" holds any weight at all outside of a random unfounded opinion?
So, are you saying she doesn't have a valid point?
She's not the only one who thinks this.
After all, she didn't make it up. She read it somewhere.
I have no idea...I'm not an automobile engineer but that statement requires some level proof from a reputable source IMO.
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Some people claim that the internal engine clearances on engines spec'd for 0W-20 are too tight to run a heavier oil.
She felt that the internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade.
I just watched My Cousin Vinney...can we voir dire your girlfriend to determine why her opinion that "internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade" holds any weight at all outside of a random unfounded opinion?
So, are you saying she doesn't have a valid point?
She's not the only one who thinks this.
After all, she didn't make it up. She read it somewhere.
I have no idea...I'm not an automobile engineer but that statement requires some level proof from a reputable source IMO.
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Some people claim that the internal engine clearances on engines spec'd for 0W-20 are too tight to run a heavier oil.
She felt that the internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade.
I just watched My Cousin Vinney...can we voir dire your girlfriend to determine why her opinion that "internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade" holds any weight at all outside of a random unfounded opinion?
So, are you saying she doesn't have a valid point?
She's not the only one who thinks this.
After all, she didn't make it up. She read it somewhere.
I have no idea...I'm not an automobile engineer but that statement requires some level proof from a reputable source IMO.
As would the practice of using a heavier oil (for example, using a 0W-30 in an engine that calls for 0W-20).
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Some people claim that the internal engine clearances on engines spec'd for 0W-20 are too tight to run a heavier oil.
She felt that the internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade.
I just watched My Cousin Vinney...can we voir dire your girlfriend to determine why her opinion that "internal clearances were too close to use a heavier grade" holds any weight at all outside of a random unfounded opinion?
So, are you saying she doesn't have a valid point?
She's not the only one who thinks this.
After all, she didn't make it up. She read it somewhere.
I have no idea...I'm not an automobile engineer but that statement requires some level proof from a reputable source IMO.
As would the practice of using a heavier oil (for example, using a 0W-30 in an engine that calls for 0W-20).
Don't think so.
My 2018 Civic Si (with the 1.5T) gets 5w30 changed every 5k that way I don't worry about the fuel dilution.
and 87 octane.
My 2018 Civic Si (with the 1.5T) gets 5w30 changed every 5k that way I don't worry about the fuel dilution.
and 87 octane.
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