Thoughts on the GM strike?

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted by BobsArmory
Back when GM was in bankruptcy there was something called shared sacrifice. Both management and hourly took big cuts in both pay and benefits for the good of the company. The day they came out of bankruptcy management got everything back. Hourly is still at 2008 concession rates and benies. Hourly is not happy with that. The street should go both ways.


Any idea of what is the starting hourly pay for a UAW worker ?

 

[ATex7239]

Unions, like the horse, were vital to establishing the country we are today. Without unions companies in America, like GM, would be paying employees with "GM Bucks" to puchase food and necessaries in the "GM store" at outrageous mark up. And child labor would rampant, sweatshops would be on ever corner, etc.

But, like the horse, it's useful time has long since passed, and it's not really needed... And, union folks, like horse folks are the only ones who think we "need" them.

I have family and friend who are union, and they are good people, but the amount of compensation and benefits they receive for their job and skill set is... well, absurd.

 

[ATex7239]

Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Originally Posted by BobsArmory
Back when GM was in bankruptcy there was something called shared sacrifice. Both management and hourly took big cuts in both pay and benefits for the good of the company. The day they came out of bankruptcy management got everything back. Hourly is still at 2008 concession rates and benies. Hourly is not happy with that. The street should go both ways.


Any idea of what is the starting hourly pay for a UAW worker ?


$15-30's with average around the $20's.

Not a horrible wage, but not really on par with the skills required to do the jobs, IMHO. You get a job at GM not because you're smart or good, you get it because you know someone...

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted by oldhp
GM = Record Profits. "Temps" working 40-60hrs a week. UAW took concessions back when GM needed bail out money. Two sides to the story and usually somewhere in the middle is the truth.
Old news, greed, record profits = Workers again getting used for profits.
I think the Mexico job thing is changing..................

and why do you suppose GM and all the other UAW controlled plants needed bailout money when the plants down south got by????? Hmmm...is there a connection?

 

[CT8]

Most CEOs and upper management is way over paid. The union retirements costs the auto purchasers and taxpayers too much money for the benefits they will receive

 

[SevenBizzos]

Just like the rest of us, they are trying to get theirs. How we all go about it may be different.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by oldhp
GM = Record Profits. "Temps" working 40-60hrs a week. UAW took concessions back when GM needed bail out money. Two sides to the story and usually somewhere in the middle is the truth.
Old news, greed, record profits = Workers again getting used for profits.
I think the Mexico job thing is changing..................

and why do you suppose GM and all the other UAW controlled plants needed bailout money when the plants down south got by????? Hmmm...is there a connection?



The lack of legacy expenses resulting from irresponsible decisions made by union and company managers AND poor decisions by mgmt (i.e. GM Financial). From an actuarial perspective private pensions are inherently unsustainable*.

*Ability to fulfill the obligations initially agreed to.

 

[Fawteen]

Originally Posted by ATex7239
Unions, like the horse, were vital to establishing the country we are today. Without unions companies in America, like GM, would be paying employees with "GM Bucks" to puchase food and necessaries in the "GM store" at outrageous mark up. And child labor would rampant, sweatshops would be on ever corner, etc.

But, like the horse, it's useful time has long since passed, and it's not really needed... And, union folks, like horse folks are the only ones who think we "need" them.

I have family and friend who are union, and they are good people, but the amount of compensation and benefits they receive for their job and skill set is... well, absurd.

Absolutely right.

 

[4WD]

Uhhh … in a country thick with lawyers, largest grievance industry, and nonstop representatives on the tube …
GM bucks ?

 

[Burt]

Originally Posted by oldhp
GM = Record Profits. "Temps" working 40-60hrs a week. UAW took concessions back when GM needed bail out money. Two sides to the story and usually somewhere in the middle is the truth.
Old news, greed, record profits = Workers again getting used for profits.
I think the Mexico job thing is changing..................


GM's stock price has gone absolutely no where in the last 10 years. You probably would have done almost as well buying a bond. So shareholders aren't getting rich. You could take the CEO's salary away and have her work for free and give the money to employees. It would put another $0.80 per week in their paychecks.

Something says to me you need to look elsewhere to find a way to improve the lot of the workers. Its not that shareholders are doing well and while the CEO may be overpaid, cutting her pay won't move the needle for workers.

 

[ATex7239]

Originally Posted by 4WD
Uhhh … in a country thick with lawyers, largest grievance industry, and nonstop representatives on the tube …
GM bucks ?


Fair labor laws start in the early 1900's before the " tube" was a thing

 

[thastinger]

I'll never own a GM product so I don't really care. I consider that company went out of business 11 years ago.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted by 4WD
Uhhh … in a country thick with lawyers, largest grievance industry, and nonstop representatives on the tube …
GM bucks ?

It think he means with company money where they would pay you but you use the money at the company store, company housing etc. Basically they owned you.

Like the song "16 Tons" "I owe my soul to company store"

So under the truck system where the company used scrip, at least how I understand it.

Of course I could be way out to lunch.

 

[BobsArmory]

I can understand why some people don't think the UAW isn't needed but with the race to the bottom as far as wages these days (every business wants to pay like Walmart) I can understand where Unions are becoming more important these days. If corporations had their way we would all be working for $3 per hour.

But the union, non union debate is a lot like politics. You can bet your bottom dollar that there will always be but hurt feelings when a group of people starts talking about it.

 

[4WD]

And that is relevant in 2019 ?

 

[WyrTwister]

I do not trust big Government . I do not trust big Business . I do not trust big Labor .

I have always worked for small business . Some bad , some so-so , some good and some stellar . My present boss is the best I have ever had .

You can argue Union vs Management all you wish . Truth is the UAW is currently trying to compete with over seas Labor . That is really their foe , especially in the long run .

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted by 4WD
And that is relevant in 2019 ?

I think his point was unions had a place at one time which helped remove the truck system and benefited the workers, but now since there is nothing like that Unions are not very helpful.

He said something like, if it weren't for unions GM would pay people company money. Which I bet they would be.

 

[BobsArmory]

Wages in Manufacturing in Mexico remained unchanged at 2.60 USD/Hour in June from 2.60 USD/Hour in May of 2019. Wages in Manufacturing in Mexico averaged 2.60 USD/Hour from 2007 until 2019, reaching an all time high of 3.80 USD/Hour in December of 2013 and a record low of 2 USD/Hour in January of 2017.

From a financial website.

 

[4WD]

You guys lost me on this company money stuff …
what's an example of a large non union company doing what you mean?

 

[64bawagon]

GM has always been a poorly run company with an excess of untalented middle managers, they got the union they deserved. The problem is humans, they always manage to ruin everything.