Update on GF-6

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Messages
37,910
Location
NJ
GF-6

NA PCMO GF-6 in 2020.

Highlights:

"The largest delay factor has been complexity," Thompson said, adding that a record seven engine tests were developed for GF-6 - three of them new and four replacements of existing tests. "Test readiness was delayed due to multiple complications, from tests that required multiple part changes to large changes in test severity to difficult procedure creation and standardization."

"ILSAC GF-6 raises the bar in most every dimension over ILSAC GF-5," Thompson said, "offering better oxidation stability, better piston cleanliness, better wear control and improved fuel economy." In addition it includes new tests for prevention of timing chain wear, prevention of low-speed pre-ignition and low viscosity grades."
 
When GF6 replaces all the GF5 on the shelves, I guess I will be stuck buying diesel oil from then on. From what I gather, GF6 was not tested on flat tappet or overhead cam engines with rockers.
 
Why would GF6 testing preclude wear values for OHC engines with rockers? I have not seen what the new tests consist off but, they seem to stress higher levels of protection for all the present tests. Ed
 
Originally Posted by BigD1
When GF6 replaces all the GF5 on the shelves, I guess I will be stuck buying diesel oil from then on. From what I gather, GF6 was not tested on flat tappet or overhead cam engines with rockers.


That wouldn't leave much of a market for it would it?
 
The oil companies have spent a lot of time and money on R&D and have just rolled out their oils for LSPI and SN+ specs.

Wonder how much they need to reformulate for GF-6.

Mobil saw the need for LSPI protection in 2010 when they released the Mobil 1 formulations.

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-mobil-advantage/mobil-1-modern-engines/lspi-protection

Mobil is testing for the GF-6. Anyone think they could meet it with current formulations?

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-mobil-advantage/mobil-1-modern-engines/ilsac-gf-6
 
Originally Posted by njohnson
Mobil saw the need for LSPI protection in 2010 when they released the Mobil 1 formulations.
Can you "enumerate" engines with LSPI problems? Without the one (two?) BMW engines?

Those complicated and long tests vs. LSPI, are a try find out (caution): how much less, more, it must be moly and boron to be safe vs. LSPI.
-> With further lower viskos and more ethanol in fuel...

Most good no-GF5 and fortiori no-GF6 oils, are safe vs. LSPI. Simply since years. With ample adds.
But the another madness make GF-6 of course necessary.

Great
sick.gif
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Lowflyer
Originally Posted by njohnson
Mobil saw the need for LSPI protection in 2010 when they released the Mobil 1 formulations.
Can you "enumerate" engines with LSPI problems? Without the one (two?) BMW engines?
Those complicated and long tests vs. LSPI, are a try find out (caution): how much less, more, it must be moly and boron to be safe vs. LSPI.
-> With further lower viskos and more ethanol in fuel...
Most good no-GF5 and fortiori no-GF6 oils, are safe vs. LSPI. Simply since years. With ample adds.
But the another madness make GF-6 of course necessary.
Great
sick.gif


The 1.6l DIT in the Hyundai Veloster Turbo was the first engine I read about having LSPI problems, not sure if there was ever a recall for it. May have been a lot of modding involved, followed by a quick return to stock after the engine was damaged...
2014-2015 Forester XTs (including mine) and 2015 WRXs were recalled for LSPI, some people got new engines.
Probably the biggest recall was 2016-2017 Chevy Malibus with the 1.5l DIT, not sure if that engine was in other GM vehicles at the time. There was a specific instruction to use AC Delco 5W30 in the US and M1 5W30 in Canada associated with this recall.
Those are the ones I'm aware of off the top of my head...

Were there BMWs with LSPI problems?
 
"edit"
Wait... Recall? What happen afterwards? What the changes in "new engines"?

What were other measures for remaining recalls? Oil changes?
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted by Lowflyer
"edit"
Wait... Recall? What happen afterwards? What the changes in "new engines"?
What were other measures for remaining recalls? Oil changes?
smile.gif


I'm not sure if the Veloster Turbo was recalled....

For the Subaru recall, engines were inspected for piston and plug damage and a leakdown test was performed. Some people had damage severe enough that they got new engines and a LOT of plugs were changed...I was advised that my plugs looked "OK" but had them changed out at part cost, anyway. I asked the tech to save the old plugs for me and I sure wouldn't put them in anything I cared about, and one of them had a piece of ceramic cracked off...I guessed at the time that this happened when the plug was being removed, but read later that the shock waves from LSPI can damage the plug ceramic. I also saw photos at this time of plugs with their electrodes nearly eroded away due to LSPI damage. Independent of LSPI, a lot of carbon fouling was also found and many of the cars involved in this recall got a free cleaning.
I believe that everybody got an ECU reprogramming out of this, of course we were not told exactly what was being changed...I'd guess the details would go over most driver's heads. Nothing about oil in this recall, I was already using M1 5W30 with low calcium and near zero sodium at this point....strangely enough, I think Subaru 5W30 is still a higher calcium formulation.

Regarding the Malibu recall, I copied this from a post by BobsArmory about his wife's car...
"Just got an email from Chevy stating that we have a Stochastic Pre-Ignition (SPI) Causing Cracked Piston recall.
Program Description:
Certain 2016 and 2017 model year Chevrolet Malibu vehicles equipped with a 1.5L LFV engine may have a pre-ignition condition that could cause piston damage. If this condition occurs, the vehicle may perform poorly and oil consumption could increase. In addition, a service engine light may illuminate indicating an engine misfire. If the condition is present, and the repair below is not completed before multiple pre-ignition events occur, a piston may be damaged and the engine may need to be repaired or replaced.
Repair Description:
Reprogram the Engine Control Module (ECM) and change the engine oil with ACDelco dexos 1 Full-Synthetic motor oil of the part number as indicated in the parts section. (In Canada use the exact Mobil 1 part number specified in the parts section). It is very important that only oil with the correct part number is used in this repair."
I'd have to assume that some assessment for existing damage was also made during this recall.

I have read in a couple of places that the ECU changes for LSPI typically involved running the engine richer in conditions where LSPI commonly occurs, which kind of messes up the fuel economy advantage of DI engines, but I don't think I've seen that verified by an authoritative source.

Hope this is helpful!
 
Why all this blame on the oil when it looks like either bad engine designs or software programing the transmission to run too
low of rpms in the name of EPA and mpg?
 
@passgas55
Oils have to be make for engines. Not inversely. Nobody, except CAFE parodists, need GF-6. Nor the environment.
 
Originally Posted by buster
GF-6

NA PCMO GF-6 in 2020.

Highlights:

"The largest delay factor has been complexity," Thompson said, adding that a record seven engine tests were developed for GF-6 - three of them new and four replacements of existing tests. "Test readiness was delayed due to multiple complications, from tests that required multiple part changes to large changes in test severity to difficult procedure creation and standardization."

"ILSAC GF-6 raises the bar in most every dimension over ILSAC GF-5," Thompson said, "offering better oxidation stability, better piston cleanliness, better wear control and improved fuel economy." In addition it includes new tests for prevention of timing chain wear, prevention of low-speed pre-ignition and low viscosity grades."


I found this reasonably short video with Lubrizol Manager Martin Birze to be a very good summary.

Lubrizol on GF-6
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top