Thoughts and opinions on family haulers

[grampi]

Originally Posted by madRiver
Originally Posted by grampi

What cracks me up are the ones who believe the Chrysler is all of a sudden a world class vehicle, with reliability and build quality equal to, or better than the Japanese makes, but yet they call people who prefer the Japanese makes Kool-Aid drinkers...some people never learn...


The scope of conversation/thread is the OP is buying used. People like myself are only stating the quality/reliability difference of Toyota/Honda vs Caravan is much more narrow then the balance of their cars/trucks/suvs Honda/Toyota offers. So the premium for a Honda/Toyota of likely $5000 used same mileage/year/options you don't buy as large of a gap in reliability/quality. You get lower mileage/newer Caravan for the same $12k spent in used situation. That is all the point that people are making.


Maybe if they're replacing their vehicles every 2 or 3 years, but if a person wants to keep their vehicle for a long time, the Chrysler will require more repairs than the Japanese makes, so in that case, it make more sense to buy the better vehicle...

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by madRiver
Originally Posted by grampi

What cracks me up are the ones who believe the Chrysler is all of a sudden a world class vehicle, with reliability and build quality equal to, or better than the Japanese makes, but yet they call people who prefer the Japanese makes Kool-Aid drinkers...some people never learn...


The scope of conversation/thread is the OP is buying used. People like myself are only stating the quality/reliability difference of Toyota/Honda vs Caravan is much more narrow then the balance of their cars/trucks/suvs Honda/Toyota offers. So the premium for a Honda/Toyota of likely $5000 used same mileage/year/options you don't buy as large of a gap in reliability/quality. You get lower mileage/newer Caravan for the same $12k spent in used situation. That is all the point that people are making.


Maybe if they're replacing their vehicles every 2 or 3 years, but if a person wants to keep their vehicle for a long time, the Chrysler will require more repairs than the Japanese makes, so in that case, it make more sense to buy the better vehicle...


Our 2004 Grand Caravan needed nothing other than oil changes in its 14 years and 200,000 mile life. After surviving the abuse my parents put it through of using it like a work truck, and then 3 teenage drivers it's getting handed down to our friends who desperately need a car. So unreliable

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by nthach
Chrysler has worked out the kinks in the 42/62TE by now or they would've been pushing Hyundai's 6-speed or the ZF 9HP in all their FWD cars already...


I'll believe that when I see it...


You say that, but you won't. You'll have some other BS excuse. Toyota makes absolutely nothing but perfection, and any other automaker isn't allowed to improve themselves. The Malaise era ended almost 40 years ago, except to you.


I hear the same garbage from same crowd all the time. "Such and such (insert American brand here) has improved this and that and it's just as good as the imports now or better"... and the end results are the same as always...they aren't any better...Chryslers have always been junk and they always will be...

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by nthach
Chrysler has worked out the kinks in the 42/62TE by now or they would've been pushing Hyundai's 6-speed or the ZF 9HP in all their FWD cars already...


I'll believe that when I see it...


You say that, but you won't. You'll have some other BS excuse. Toyota makes absolutely nothing but perfection, and any other automaker isn't allowed to improve themselves. The Malaise era ended almost 40 years ago, except to you.


I hear the same garbage from same crowd all the time. "Such and such (insert American brand here) has improved this and that and it's just as good as the imports now or better"... and the end results are the same as always...they aren't any better...Chryslers have always been junk and they always will be...


Thank you for proving my point.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Thank you for proving my point.



Thank you for proving mine...

 

[chrisri]

Is Toyota Proace Verso available in the USA yet? It is a nice looking people carrier based upon PSA tech (badge engineering) so it will handle, brake, steer and look as normal cars do. I have Peugeot version and absolutely love it.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by chrisri
Is Toyota Proace Verso available in the USA yet?
No, but we have Dodge Sprinter Passenger Van.

We also have Ford Transits and lots of school buses. At the rate OP is going, he may need one soon.

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by chrisri
Is Toyota Proace Verso available in the USA yet?
No, but we have Dodge Sprinter Passenger Van.

We also have Ford Transits and lots of school buses. At the rate OP is going, he may need one soon.

Proace would serve him well until more kids kick in- I believe it is good up to 8 people. Mine is cargo version so can't be sure. After that Transit will do, I guess.

 

[oilstudent24]

My apologies. I may have driven an earlier Dodge Grand Caravan or the Dodge middle row didn't move as far back as the Sienna. The Sienna seats move all the way back until it hits the 3rd row seat.

 

[ram_man]

I am amazed at the amount of hate the caravan gets here. First and foremost. I will not buy an Odyssey the transmissions are absolute junk. I've replaced a few. The sienna I've never seen to many issues other than they are harder to work on that the caravan. I haven't seen any super high mileage 3.6's yet but I've seen tons and tons of the 3.3 and 3.8. I used to service an airport shuttle van that had 492,000 miles on it . It was the 3.8l original just about everything. My grandma owned a 99 Voyager with the 3.3 and when she passed away it had 130,000 miles and it wasn't ever in the shop either. Brakes, tires oil changes and I believe a set of shocks and struts was it. So I have to say that in my professional experience and private experience I've never seen many issues with the caravans over all. I've also never had many issues with any Chrysler product me or my family has ever owned. Everyones experience may vary but we've simply had good luck since the 70's everyone on my dads side had had decent luck in all that time there was a Plymouth horizon and a Jeep commander that weren't great out of probably 20-25 vehicles. I hate hearing how people think Chrysler is so bad.
Even professionally I didn't work on them any more than anything else . I worked on them less than a lot of other brands. They are far from perfect but they don't deserve the mind set some of you have about them imo.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by ram_man
They are far from perfect but they don't deserve the mind set some of you have about them imo.


Amen. Some people are just stuck in the past.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by ram_man
They are far from perfect but they don't deserve the mind set some of you have about them imo.

I get the same from the misinformed in re Hyundai/Kia. Sure they were junk years ago but their quality and reliability has come a long way since those days, yet those attitudes formed in that era persist... almost like they're urban legend.

Ditto for Fram oil filters... wasn't long ago that they were widely considered garbage but they've come a long way since those days yet people's attitudes towards Fram filters persist. Seems there's a subset of people that would rather believe conspiracy theories and handed down urban legend than facts.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by grampi


If there's any truth to this, and I doubt there is, the Toyotas and Hondas are still better vehicles than the Chryslers...


And I don't think the Honda and Toyota minivans are good enough to command the price premium they do. Especially after sitting in a 2016 Sienna and then comparing it to even a 2018 Grand Caravan. But people love that kool-aid.


We had a Sienna as a rental, the review of which I posted on here. To say that I was underwhelmed is a gross understatement, it was a steaming pile, but it's a Toyota, so it had to be awesome, apparently I was just oblivious to whatever it was that made it so

Check back when the Chrysler's tranny goes out at 100K and we'll see which one is the steaming pile...


The 80's called, they want you to stop putting Dexron III in units that don't call for it and then cry when it goes into limp mode.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by nthach
Chrysler has worked out the kinks in the 42/62TE by now or they would've been pushing Hyundai's 6-speed or the ZF 9HP in all their FWD cars already...


I'll believe that when I see it...


Right, sure you will.

 

[brages]

Originally Posted by ram_man
First and foremost. I will not buy an Odyssey the transmissions are absolute junk.


The transmissions from 99-mid04 were junk. The 05-06 seem to have normal failure rates (I had an 05 that we took to 230k before it was totaled). In 07, they got the Ridgeline/Pilot transmission that is quite durable. I don't know about the newest ones, but I believe they are fine too.

 

[brages]

Originally Posted by KrisZ


When was the last time you saw a Grand Caravan stranded on the side of the road? I have not seen one, like ever.



I saw four cars that had been left on the side of the road today:

A VW Routan (rebadged Caravan)
An Audi A4 (on a jack, looked like a tire/wheel problem)
A beat up Chevrolet S10
A Ford Five Hundred

I'm not sure what stranded cars really tell you, although I believe if when you pass cars on the side of the road, and they are consistently in better shape that what you're driving, it's time to start shopping, LOL.

I think I see Caravans fairly often, but I don't think it means anything other than that they are popular cars with high utility value that are driven to the end of their life. IMO, almost any car will give 200k of reliable service if maintained well.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted by brages
Originally Posted by KrisZ


When was the last time you saw a Grand Caravan stranded on the side of the road? I have not seen one, like ever.



I saw four cars that had been left on the side of the road today:

A VW Routan (rebadged Caravan)
An Audi A4 (on a jack, looked like a tire/wheel problem)
A beat up Chevrolet S10
A Ford Five Hundred

I'm not sure what stranded cars really tell you, although I believe if when you pass cars on the side of the road, and they are consistently in better shape that what you're driving, it's time to start shopping, LOL.

I think I see Caravans fairly often, but I don't think it means anything other than that they are popular cars with high utility value that are driven to the end of their life. IMO, almost any car will give 200k of reliable service if maintained well.



I was replying specifically to this:
Originally Posted by Pew

I wouldn't. The last thing I would want is for my family to be stuck on the side of the road


I see lots of cars on the side of the road too, but since the bay area really likes their Toyotas, probably due to the old NUMNI plant, guess which brand I see a lot? Yup, Toyota. I also see other brands too, but honestly I have yet to see any late model Grand Caravans. The older ones, yes.
And having said that, since rust is not an issue, I see quite often the old Caravans and Grand caravans from 90s and early 2000s on my daily commute. Hmm, I though only Toyota could be on the road for such a long time.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by ram_man
They are far from perfect but they don't deserve the mind set some of you have about them imo.


Amen. Some people are just stuck in the past.


...and some of us have owned Chryslers that have been nothing but trouble...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by nthach
Chrysler has worked out the kinks in the 42/62TE by now or they would've been pushing Hyundai's 6-speed or the ZF 9HP in all their FWD cars already...


I'll believe that when I see it...


Right, sure you will.

You're right, I won't because Chryslers will never be on par with the imports...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by brages
Originally Posted by KrisZ


When was the last time you saw a Grand Caravan stranded on the side of the road? I have not seen one, like ever.



I saw four cars that had been left on the side of the road today:

A VW Routan (rebadged Caravan)
An Audi A4 (on a jack, looked like a tire/wheel problem)
A beat up Chevrolet S10
A Ford Five Hundred

I'm not sure what stranded cars really tell you, although I believe if when you pass cars on the side of the road, and they are consistently in better shape that what you're driving, it's time to start shopping, LOL.

I think I see Caravans fairly often, but I don't think it means anything other than that they are popular cars with high utility value that are driven to the end of their life. IMO, almost any car will give 200k of reliable service if maintained well.



I was replying specifically to this:
Originally Posted by Pew

I wouldn't. The last thing I would want is for my family to be stuck on the side of the road


I see lots of cars on the side of the road too, but since the bay area really likes their Toyotas, probably due to the old NUMNI plant, guess which brand I see a lot? Yup, Toyota. I also see other brands too, but honestly I have yet to see any late model Grand Caravans. The older ones, yes.
And having said that, since rust is not an issue, I see quite often the old Caravans and Grand caravans from 90s and early 2000s on my daily commute. Hmm, I though only Toyota could be on the road for such a long time.

I see a lot of old Cavaliers on the road too, does that mean they're as good, or better than the imports? Your reasoning is flawed...