Considering Solar

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Got some quotes to get a new roof today as the paper is gone. I asked about Solar and besides calculating break evens (factoring in 30% Federal Tax Credit) and checking on fees from electric company, etc. is there anything else to consider? Will buy vs leasing. Not well versed in the technology nowadays. My power is usually $200-$360 a month. Might consider if break even isn't too bad. Appreciate the info.
 
We have a consumer advocate here and he has some guidelines for solar. He says if you are going to do solar definitely buy, do not lease. If you lease and sell your house you will have to find a buyer that is willing to take over the lease, or remove system and take with you. With your monthly power bill you are in the range where it will pay you back at some point. Also check the company. In Colorado it is almost impossible to get someone to work on or repair if they did not install the system. How long have they been around, check online ratings. What kind of warranty? Sounds like you have done your research. Also, how long do you expect to live in this house? Some companies here can do a study via satellite, your roof, your climate and give you an estimate of power produced. Good luck.

Scott
 
Thanks Scott. Appreciate it. He is sending me over such a report based on my power bill. Never considered ongoing servicing considerations. Will research those areas.
 
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Originally Posted by mbacfp
Got some quotes to get a new roof today as the paper is gone. I asked about Solar and besides calculating break evens (factoring in 30% Federal Tax Credit) and checking on fees from electric company, etc. is there anything else to consider? Will buy vs leasing. Not well versed in the technology nowadays. My power is usually $200-$360 a month. Might consider if break even isn't too bad. Appreciate the info.


I'm going solar. 12.95kW ground mount system.

Advice I'd have for you:

-Use North American or Japanese made panels. None of that Chinese stuff.
-Check the warranty. They all allege 25 years, but in the fine print, they spell out that this is only for production, not materials. This means in 25 years they guarantee it will produce (typically), 80% of initial power. However, the fine print says in 10-15 years, the company is no-longer on the hook to replace panels that have mechanical failure, such as backing separation, or whatever. I went with Silfab panels.
-Inverters. Not too many of these to choose from, but stick with one of the big boys that have been around a while, like SMA.

My system isn't in yet, still ordering parts, but they have mapped out location, logistics. Will keep posted.

As far as servicing, the inverters need some part replacement every 10-15 years or so. That's about it, unless you have no rain + dust storms, etc. and then you will need to keep the panels clean somewhat.

Also, here is a website that I used to calculate my power production vs usage. I should have a $0 bill for 9 months, and a 50% bill for 3 months. This doesn't quite break even on day 1, but my panels are warrantied for 25 years against all defect, and 30 years for production, and my loan is only 2.99% fixed for 20 years, so after 20 years, it's all just free, and at some point I plan on a PEV when they become technologically viable. My bill averages $189/mo, if amortized for the year. WITHOUT using my federal tax credit (why would I pay back a 2.99% fixed 20Y loan when I can pay off auto, etc. with that money?) I will be at an average of $204/mo payment + whatever the company (electric) charges per month for my new net metering meter (I presume they do? $15-25?). However, this DOES lend stability, as rate increases for the next 20 years on electricity shouldn't really effect me, so in as few as 5 years, I could be pocketing money. Technically I'm pocketing money initially with the 30% tax credit going t o pay off higher interest things, really.

https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php

Also consider the impact on home owner insurance. It will increase mine by $140/year, even though it is 75m from my house, as it is wired to the house and thus "part of the house", just like my well, per my ins. provider (State Farm).
 
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Originally Posted by boulderdentist
..............In Colorado it is almost impossible to get someone to work on or repair if they did not install the system.
Scott

This is true with a lot of things, but especially solar systems. And there are, or else will be a lot of solar companies going under in the next few years, as the government credits and subsidies dry up, or else are greatly reduced. You have no idea which ones will survive, and which won't. I would be very leery of installing solar. Even if you do, the actual savings is debatable, if it exists at all. Many people are financially disappointed in the results, after buying into these things.

Another issue is the efficiency of the panels. They are improving all the time. Getting much more efficient, not to mention cheaper. There is a lot of Pacific Rim and Chinese competition in the manufacture of these things. That is also forcing a lot of companies here who produce them to go under. Remember Solyndra? They boarded up the windows even after receiving big government money. The best systems today will be inefficient and obsolete in a few years. Then what? Remember the 12' satellite TV dishes?

In spite of it being around for awhile, solar still has a long way to go. Especially for the average homeowner. I would look elsewhere for energy savings. There are a lot of proven things you can do with and to your home, all for less money that will help reduce your energy cost burden besides solar.
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Getting much more efficient,


Not really...they are a lot more efficient than 20 years ago, but there's laws of physics that mean they can't go THAT much farther.
 
Said this before during a solar discussion. Before you commit, have you done the following to reduce your electric bill?

1. Replace all lights in and around the house with LED bulbs.
2. Make sure that your attic insulation is thick and in excellent shape. Have an good roof vent and soffit to allow airflow.
3. Since you are in sunny CA, what color is your roof? Since air conditioning is probably your main user of power, make sure you have a light colored roof.
4. If your walls are not well insulated, have blown in insulation added. Fire retarded cellulose is the way to go as the boron fire retardant is an excellent insect repellent.
5. Make sure you have very good quality well insulated windows. Use draperies or awnings to cut sun intrusion on the south and west side of your home.

For the cost of solar, you can do a lot of these things and you will probably see a very significant reduction in power usage.
 
Originally Posted by Boomer
Said this before during a solar discussion. Before you commit, have you done the following to reduce your electric bill?

1. Replace all lights in and around the house with LED bulbs.
2. Make sure that your attic insulation is thick and in excellent shape. Have an good roof vent and soffit to allow airflow.
3. Since you are in sunny CA, what color is your roof? Since air conditioning is probably your main user of power, make sure you have a light colored roof.
4. If your walls are not well insulated, have blown in insulation added. Fire retarded cellulose is the way to go as the boron fire retardant is an excellent insect repellent.
5. Make sure you have very good quality well insulated windows. Use draperies or awnings to cut sun intrusion on the south and west side of your home.

For the cost of solar, you can do a lot of these things and you will probably see a very significant reduction in power usage.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
If the earth is gonna go away in 12-15 years, I don't think I'd be going into a long return type of venture. I'd just stick with gas, oil, wood or electric.


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Another thought....if you have not replaced your air conditioning compressor in the past ten years, buy a new high SEER unit that is a heat pump. These are now almost as efficient as geothemal, particularly in your climate. Going from an 8 SEER unit to a 15 SEER unit can save a prodigious amount of electricity. Also, new refrigerators are much more efficient than a ten year old unit.
 
Excellent information all. Much appreciated. My tiles are fine, but wife doesn't like them and they are dark.. going lighter for sure. Got new A/C 6 years ago or so and upgraded our pool pumps recently. Since we were doing new roof figured I would also look into solar. Will post break even info on here once I get all the data points. Roofer mentioned if doing solar at same time they can transfer some of the roofing cost to the solar side to maximize our tax credits, which for 2019 is a 30% Federal Tax Credit.

Appreciate all the info (as usual on here). Good day all.
 
Originally Posted by Boomer
Another thought....if you have not replaced your air conditioning compressor in the past ten years, buy a new high SEER unit that is a heat pump. These are now almost as efficient as geothemal, particularly in your climate. Going from an 8 SEER unit to a 15 SEER unit can save a prodigious amount of electricity. Also, new refrigerators are much more efficient than a ten year old unit.

Can it, though?

Let's see! With a 4 tonne unit going from 9 SEER to 16 SEER (They didn't have 8), you save about $400/year. If you have a more modern unit, it will be a 13 SEER at least, and going from 13 to 19 SEER saves a whopping $185/year.

https://kobiecomplete.com/cool-tips/seer-savings-calculator/

What people who are touting "go hardcore on insulation!" "Replace HVAC!" are missing, is that after you pay off the solar, it's going to ELIMINATE your electricity cost in some areas, or reduce it by 80-90% in other areas. In nearly all areas of the US, it will be AT LEAST a "break even with current" from day #1, so instead of paying the electric company, you're paying a loan company for the solar array. After the 20 year loan or whatever is up, you can bet electricity costs will have increased. How much? Well, in the last 20 years the average cost in America (Lower 48), has gone up by nearly 5 cents per kwh, or roughly 30%. So if your bill is $100 now, it is likely to be at least $130 (barring zero changes) in 20 more years. Especially with all of the "green" initiatives being pushed currently. A solar array negates that.

So from day one, you are paying not a cent more (usually less) than you are for electricity, and you have "locked in" that rate for the next 20 years, and after that loan is up, it's "free". If you have decent panels, they will work great well past 30 years. Mine are warrantied for 30 year production, and 25 year construction.

Now we factor in that in 20 years...do you see PEV's coming far enough for you to buy one? I'd bet "yes!". You may disagree, though, but if you do agree with me, now your solar array is providing "free gasoline".

Also consider that, yeah, you will replace your HVAC as a matter of course when the time comes, anyways. Death, Taxes, dead HVAC's. It happens.
 
Originally Posted by Gebo
If the earth is gonna go away in 12-15 years, I don't think I'd be going into a long return type of venture. I'd just stick with gas, oil, wood or electric.


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But...I'm saving money on day #1...

Average monthly bill: $189
Payment for my solar array, if I put tax credit toward it: $154

...and it enhances property value, will be paid off in 20 years and then "free", etc.

What is this "break even" deal? For me, it's day #1.
 
I did solar and love it.
The company, Infinity Solar, Rocklin CA, advised me to do a "solar project", which ultimately included a new roof.
My roof was about mid-life; it did not have to be replaced. You don't want to work on your roof with panels installed...
But as a project, I got the 30% tax credit on the roof as well.
I should have included the Tesla Wall Charger as well, but I didn't know.

I talked to numerous companies; Costco Sun Run was really good but Infinity beat them.
Prices are getting better.
It may increase the value of your home; where I live you pay for the zip code, not so much the home.
Also, I used to run the AC when it was really needed or when guests came over.
Let's just say that it gets used quite a bit more now...

Again, I love my solar.
 
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Thanks Jeff. Will look into the solar project angle. Thanks to all again.
 
If you are staying in the home long term solar may very well be the way to go. If selling in a few years don't do it. I have had realtors tell me that a solar array is a turn off to more people than you think.
 
Originally Posted by walterjay
If you are staying in the home long term solar may very well be the way to go. If selling in a few years don't do it. I have had realtors tell me that a solar array is a turn off to more people than you think.

OP lives in CA, you live in MD. Likely it's very different between the two given latitude, as well as cost of electricity perhaps. Also, state regulations and so forth have TONS to do with solar viability.
 
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I don't know what part of kalifornia you are in, but around here PG&E is the sole provider and there rates will be going up again. As noted above, try to stay with US, Japanese, or Korean made panels. If there are shading issues, then you will need to look at micro inverters. Basically they use on inverter per panel instead of a single inverter on the side of the house. Like anything else there are advantages and disadvantages to both, just do your research. We've had the enpahse micro inverters for 7 years now with 46 panels with no failures.

I went with a very small company that delivered the best bang for the buck. Their overhead is next to nothing and my payback at the time was 7 years. Since the rates have jumped considerably since 2012, my payback was actually closer to 5 years. When I was getting quotes, some of the companies would quotes me the capacity of the system as the laboratory rating x the number of panels. Talk about fraud! The guy I went with told me all about the ratings, how they would differ from reality due to the elevation of the roof and the orientation of the property. The devil is in the details.
 
I have solar on my house (sorry I don't remember all the details at the moment.. have had it about 4-5 years now). One big thing I would say is watch the guys installing the system as well. They are modifying your home, so make sure they do it right. I also agree to buy it, not lease or have the company selling it as your new power company. For me I will break even on what I paid for the system VS what it cost at about 7 years. It has been very nice not having a power bill any longer. You do need to remember its not unlimited free power, so don't start using more power than you used too.
 
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