Recent Topics
Rotating Directional Tires for Dry Conditions
by CharlieBauer - 12/06/19 03:42 PM
Review: My 2011 Prius turned 200K
by The Critic - 12/06/19 03:29 PM
NIB sggcx2 dash cam
by BeerCan - 12/06/19 02:57 PM
Mazda FL22 alternative?
by jayjr1105 - 12/06/19 01:57 PM
Tips for sealing radiator hose
by Parlay_Slow - 12/06/19 01:51 PM
Valvoline
by Koncrete_Cam - 12/06/19 01:32 PM
At home tire rotation protocol question
by NissanMaxima - 12/06/19 12:57 PM
Base oil different in 0W vs 5W?
by doyall - 12/06/19 12:54 PM
Five Gees
by Y_K - 12/06/19 12:31 PM
Valvoline Dex/Merc Label
by 28oz - 12/06/19 12:23 PM
Storing a vehicle- advice please!
by Rolla07 - 12/06/19 11:53 AM
1964 Cub Cadet 100
by Phishin - 12/06/19 11:40 AM
2001 Volvo V70XC 6140 Miles Mobil1 10w-30 HM
by Astro_Guy - 12/06/19 11:22 AM
Blend door motor reset
by otis24 - 12/06/19 11:08 AM
My 68 L36
by JeffKeryk - 12/06/19 10:45 AM
2016 Accord 11,513 Miles Mobil1 5w-30 EP
by Astro_Guy - 12/06/19 10:15 AM
Leaf springs last how long?
by supton - 12/06/19 09:27 AM
Valvoline eye candy
by Snagglefoot - 12/06/19 07:41 AM
Newest Members
OilStasher, Cranemanl1EMR, Cooline_Radiator, Sveina, msf1344
70047 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
109 registered members (69GTX, 38Chevy454, 28oz, 97f150, 1960Elco, 11 invisible), 2,265 guests, and 50 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics298,378
Posts5,134,098
Members70,047
Most Online3,589
Nov 2nd, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 7 1 2 7
Considering Solar #5216617 09/18/19 10:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,093
M
mbacfp Offline OP
OP Offline
M
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,093
Got some quotes to get a new roof today as the paper is gone. I asked about Solar and besides calculating break evens (factoring in 30% Federal Tax Credit) and checking on fees from electric company, etc. is there anything else to consider? Will buy vs leasing. Not well versed in the technology nowadays. My power is usually $200-$360 a month. Might consider if break even isn't too bad. Appreciate the info.


2014 F-550 PSD..........M1 Delvac ESP 5w-40 + OEM
2018 Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat
2012 Toyota Sienna LTD 3.5L V6
2003 Dodge Durango R/T 4x4 5.9L V8
Re: Considering Solar [Re: mbacfp] #5216633 09/18/19 11:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 90
B
boulderdentist Online Content
Online Content
B
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 90
We have a consumer advocate here and he has some guidelines for solar. He says if you are going to do solar definitely buy, do not lease. If you lease and sell your house you will have to find a buyer that is willing to take over the lease, or remove system and take with you. With your monthly power bill you are in the range where it will pay you back at some point. Also check the company. In Colorado it is almost impossible to get someone to work on or repair if they did not install the system. How long have they been around, check online ratings. What kind of warranty? Sounds like you have done your research. Also, how long do you expect to live in this house? Some companies here can do a study via satellite, your roof, your climate and give you an estimate of power produced. Good luck.

Scott

Re: Considering Solar [Re: mbacfp] #5216635 09/18/19 11:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,093
M
mbacfp Offline OP
OP Offline
M
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,093
Thanks Scott. Appreciate it. He is sending me over such a report based on my power bill. Never considered ongoing servicing considerations. Will research those areas.

Last edited by mbacfp; 09/18/19 11:13 PM.

2014 F-550 PSD..........M1 Delvac ESP 5w-40 + OEM
2018 Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat
2012 Toyota Sienna LTD 3.5L V6
2003 Dodge Durango R/T 4x4 5.9L V8
Re: Considering Solar [Re: mbacfp] #5216648 09/19/19 12:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,009
M
mattwithcats Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,009
Use GAF Deck Armor instead of tarpaper...

Cost for my roof was the same,
3 square tarpaper - $30
10 square Deck Armor - $100

https://www.gaf.com/en-us/products/deck-armor

Synthetic self sealing membrane...
My cat has been using the remains of the roll as a scratching post, not dystroyed yet, and it has been 5+ years...


2009 Smart Pure
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40, Wix XP 51356 filter, 45 mpg...
185/55R15 General HP tires, "H" speed rated, 44 psi (300 kpa)
Re: Considering Solar [Re: mbacfp] #5216665 09/19/19 01:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,753
W
Ws6 Offline
Offline
W
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,753
Originally Posted by mbacfp
Got some quotes to get a new roof today as the paper is gone. I asked about Solar and besides calculating break evens (factoring in 30% Federal Tax Credit) and checking on fees from electric company, etc. is there anything else to consider? Will buy vs leasing. Not well versed in the technology nowadays. My power is usually $200-$360 a month. Might consider if break even isn't too bad. Appreciate the info.


I'm going solar. 12.95kW ground mount system.

Advice I'd have for you:

-Use North American or Japanese made panels. None of that Chinese stuff.
-Check the warranty. They all allege 25 years, but in the fine print, they spell out that this is only for production, not materials. This means in 25 years they guarantee it will produce (typically), 80% of initial power. However, the fine print says in 10-15 years, the company is no-longer on the hook to replace panels that have mechanical failure, such as backing separation, or whatever. I went with Silfab panels.
-Inverters. Not too many of these to choose from, but stick with one of the big boys that have been around a while, like SMA.

My system isn't in yet, still ordering parts, but they have mapped out location, logistics. Will keep posted.

As far as servicing, the inverters need some part replacement every 10-15 years or so. That's about it, unless you have no rain + dust storms, etc. and then you will need to keep the panels clean somewhat.

Also, here is a website that I used to calculate my power production vs usage. I should have a $0 bill for 9 months, and a 50% bill for 3 months. This doesn't quite break even on day 1, but my panels are warrantied for 25 years against all defect, and 30 years for production, and my loan is only 2.99% fixed for 20 years, so after 20 years, it's all just free, and at some point I plan on a PEV when they become technologically viable. My bill averages $189/mo, if amortized for the year. WITHOUT using my federal tax credit (why would I pay back a 2.99% fixed 20Y loan when I can pay off auto, etc. with that money?) I will be at an average of $204/mo payment + whatever the company (electric) charges per month for my new net metering meter (I presume they do? $15-25?). However, this DOES lend stability, as rate increases for the next 20 years on electricity shouldn't really effect me, so in as few as 5 years, I could be pocketing money. Technically I'm pocketing money initially with the 30% tax credit going t o pay off higher interest things, really.

https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php

Also consider the impact on home owner insurance. It will increase mine by $140/year, even though it is 75m from my house, as it is wired to the house and thus "part of the house", just like my well, per my ins. provider (State Farm).

Last edited by Ws6; 09/19/19 01:42 AM.

2019 CX5 Grand Touring Reserve
Re: Considering Solar [Re: boulderdentist] #5216676 09/19/19 02:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,748
B
billt460 Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,748
Originally Posted by boulderdentist
..............In Colorado it is almost impossible to get someone to work on or repair if they did not install the system.
Scott

This is true with a lot of things, but especially solar systems. And there are, or else will be a lot of solar companies going under in the next few years, as the government credits and subsidies dry up, or else are greatly reduced. You have no idea which ones will survive, and which won't. I would be very leery of installing solar. Even if you do, the actual savings is debatable, if it exists at all. Many people are financially disappointed in the results, after buying into these things.

Another issue is the efficiency of the panels. They are improving all the time. Getting much more efficient, not to mention cheaper. There is a lot of Pacific Rim and Chinese competition in the manufacture of these things. That is also forcing a lot of companies here who produce them to go under. Remember Solyndra? They boarded up the windows even after receiving big government money. The best systems today will be inefficient and obsolete in a few years. Then what? Remember the 12' satellite TV dishes?

In spite of it being around for awhile, solar still has a long way to go. Especially for the average homeowner. I would look elsewhere for energy savings. There are a lot of proven things you can do with and to your home, all for less money that will help reduce your energy cost burden besides solar.

Re: Considering Solar [Re: billt460] #5216693 09/19/19 04:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,405
S
Shannow Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,405
Originally Posted by billt460
Getting much more efficient,


Not really...they are a lot more efficient than 20 years ago, but there's laws of physics that mean they can't go THAT much farther.


If it's the truth....it can handle the pressure !!!
Re: Considering Solar [Re: mbacfp] #5216726 09/19/19 05:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,151
B
Boomer Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,151
Said this before during a solar discussion. Before you commit, have you done the following to reduce your electric bill?

1. Replace all lights in and around the house with LED bulbs.
2. Make sure that your attic insulation is thick and in excellent shape. Have an good roof vent and soffit to allow airflow.
3. Since you are in sunny CA, what color is your roof? Since air conditioning is probably your main user of power, make sure you have a light colored roof.
4. If your walls are not well insulated, have blown in insulation added. Fire retarded cellulose is the way to go as the boron fire retardant is an excellent insect repellent.
5. Make sure you have very good quality well insulated windows. Use draperies or awnings to cut sun intrusion on the south and west side of your home.

For the cost of solar, you can do a lot of these things and you will probably see a very significant reduction in power usage.


2019 VW Passat 2.0 liter gasoline DI engine, DI, 2,700 miles, Castrol Professional VW 508 0W-20
2017 VW Golf All Track 1.8 liter gas engine DI, 25,500 miles Castrol Professional VW 505 5W-40
Re: Considering Solar [Re: Boomer] #5216767 09/19/19 06:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,748
B
billt460 Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,748
Originally Posted by Boomer
Said this before during a solar discussion. Before you commit, have you done the following to reduce your electric bill?

1. Replace all lights in and around the house with LED bulbs.
2. Make sure that your attic insulation is thick and in excellent shape. Have an good roof vent and soffit to allow airflow.
3. Since you are in sunny CA, what color is your roof? Since air conditioning is probably your main user of power, make sure you have a light colored roof.
4. If your walls are not well insulated, have blown in insulation added. Fire retarded cellulose is the way to go as the boron fire retardant is an excellent insect repellent.
5. Make sure you have very good quality well insulated windows. Use draperies or awnings to cut sun intrusion on the south and west side of your home.

For the cost of solar, you can do a lot of these things and you will probably see a very significant reduction in power usage.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Re: Considering Solar [Re: mbacfp] #5216780 09/19/19 06:34 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,609
G
Gebo Offline
Offline
G
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,609
If the earth is gonna go away in 12-15 years, I don't think I'd be going into a long return type of venture. I'd just stick with gas, oil, wood or electric.


sailing


'98 LEX LS400 300K
'02 4Runner 245K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'07 Lex GX470 65K

Shell Gas and Truck & Pennzoil Full Syn HM
Toyota ATF's and Coolant
Amsoil Gear Oil and Grease
Re: Considering Solar [Re: mbacfp] #5216786 09/19/19 06:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,151
B
Boomer Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,151
Another thought....if you have not replaced your air conditioning compressor in the past ten years, buy a new high SEER unit that is a heat pump. These are now almost as efficient as geothemal, particularly in your climate. Going from an 8 SEER unit to a 15 SEER unit can save a prodigious amount of electricity. Also, new refrigerators are much more efficient than a ten year old unit.


2019 VW Passat 2.0 liter gasoline DI engine, DI, 2,700 miles, Castrol Professional VW 508 0W-20
2017 VW Golf All Track 1.8 liter gas engine DI, 25,500 miles Castrol Professional VW 505 5W-40
Re: Considering Solar [Re: mbacfp] #5216831 09/19/19 07:18 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,093
M
mbacfp Offline OP
OP Offline
M
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,093
Excellent information all. Much appreciated. My tiles are fine, but wife doesn't like them and they are dark.. going lighter for sure. Got new A/C 6 years ago or so and upgraded our pool pumps recently. Since we were doing new roof figured I would also look into solar. Will post break even info on here once I get all the data points. Roofer mentioned if doing solar at same time they can transfer some of the roofing cost to the solar side to maximize our tax credits, which for 2019 is a 30% Federal Tax Credit.

Appreciate all the info (as usual on here). Good day all.


2014 F-550 PSD..........M1 Delvac ESP 5w-40 + OEM
2018 Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat
2012 Toyota Sienna LTD 3.5L V6
2003 Dodge Durango R/T 4x4 5.9L V8
Re: Considering Solar [Re: Boomer] #5216846 09/19/19 07:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,753
W
Ws6 Offline
Offline
W
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,753
Originally Posted by Boomer
Another thought....if you have not replaced your air conditioning compressor in the past ten years, buy a new high SEER unit that is a heat pump. These are now almost as efficient as geothemal, particularly in your climate. Going from an 8 SEER unit to a 15 SEER unit can save a prodigious amount of electricity. Also, new refrigerators are much more efficient than a ten year old unit.

Can it, though?

Let's see! With a 4 tonne unit going from 9 SEER to 16 SEER (They didn't have 8), you save about $400/year. If you have a more modern unit, it will be a 13 SEER at least, and going from 13 to 19 SEER saves a whopping $185/year.

https://kobiecomplete.com/cool-tips/seer-savings-calculator/

What people who are touting "go hardcore on insulation!" "Replace HVAC!" are missing, is that after you pay off the solar, it's going to ELIMINATE your electricity cost in some areas, or reduce it by 80-90% in other areas. In nearly all areas of the US, it will be AT LEAST a "break even with current" from day #1, so instead of paying the electric company, you're paying a loan company for the solar array. After the 20 year loan or whatever is up, you can bet electricity costs will have increased. How much? Well, in the last 20 years the average cost in America (Lower 48), has gone up by nearly 5 cents per kwh, or roughly 30%. So if your bill is $100 now, it is likely to be at least $130 (barring zero changes) in 20 more years. Especially with all of the "green" initiatives being pushed currently. A solar array negates that.

So from day one, you are paying not a cent more (usually less) than you are for electricity, and you have "locked in" that rate for the next 20 years, and after that loan is up, it's "free". If you have decent panels, they will work great well past 30 years. Mine are warrantied for 30 year production, and 25 year construction.

Now we factor in that in 20 years...do you see PEV's coming far enough for you to buy one? I'd bet "yes!". You may disagree, though, but if you do agree with me, now your solar array is providing "free gasoline".

Also consider that, yeah, you will replace your HVAC as a matter of course when the time comes, anyways. Death, Taxes, dead HVAC's. It happens.


2019 CX5 Grand Touring Reserve
Re: Considering Solar [Re: Gebo] #5216850 09/19/19 07:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,753
W
Ws6 Offline
Offline
W
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,753
Originally Posted by Gebo
If the earth is gonna go away in 12-15 years, I don't think I'd be going into a long return type of venture. I'd just stick with gas, oil, wood or electric.


sailing



But...I'm saving money on day #1...

Average monthly bill: $189
Payment for my solar array, if I put tax credit toward it: $154

...and it enhances property value, will be paid off in 20 years and then "free", etc.

What is this "break even" deal? For me, it's day #1.


2019 CX5 Grand Touring Reserve
Re: Considering Solar [Re: mbacfp] #5216924 09/19/19 09:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,625
J
JeffKeryk Online Content
Online Content
J
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,625
I did solar and love it.
The company, Infinity Solar, Rocklin CA, advised me to do a "solar project", which ultimately included a new roof.
My roof was about mid-life; it did not have to be replaced. You don't want to work on your roof with panels installed...
But as a project, I got the 30% tax credit on the roof as well.
I should have included the Tesla Wall Charger as well, but I didn't know.

I talked to numerous companies; Costco Sun Run was really good but Infinity beat them.
Prices are getting better.
It may increase the value of your home; where I live you pay for the zip code, not so much the home.
Also, I used to run the AC when it was really needed or when guests came over.
Let's just say that it gets used quite a bit more now...

Again, I love my solar.

Last edited by JeffKeryk; 09/19/19 09:08 AM.

2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
Page 1 of 7 1 2 7
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™