Is Red Line 0w40 worth it over or Castrol 0w40 or Mobil 1 0w40
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Originally Posted by Lowflyer
Originally Posted by sloinker
I don't think anyone can actually know what percentage of ester is contained in Red Line.
Truly?
Look not around the parish. Look around the world...
Spectographic analyses says: 12-13%.
Your own or published sources?
You've made quite a splash since joining, that's for sure. Except for deleted posts of course.
Originally Posted by sloinker
I don't think anyone can actually know what percentage of ester is contained in Red Line.
Truly?
Spectographic analyses says: 12-13%.
Your own or published sources?
You've made quite a splash since joining, that's for sure. Except for deleted posts of course.
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Originally Posted by BillyE
Why is it that all the SDSs I can find say "synthetic lubricant base oil" with no specifics at all?
Because they recently updated the MSDS's to omit the information that used to be in them.
Why is it that all the SDSs I can find say "synthetic lubricant base oil" with no specifics at all?
Because they recently updated the MSDS's to omit the information that used to be in them.
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Originally Posted by sloinker
I don't think anyone can actually know what percentage of ester is contained in Red Line. The SDS shows 99% non hazardous so it could be anywhere from 1%-99% Ester with PAO taking up the difference. What I consider a 100% synthetic oil, there are very few out there and they cost more. Who would have thought it? I'm guessing there is next to no ester/pao in most easily available, heavily marketed synthetic oils, especially those that cost the least. If there were significant quantities in any of the major brands you could be sure it would be shouted from the rooftops in their advertisements. The Casstrol you can pretty much count on being whatever is cheapest contained in the bottle, they probably buy Supertech in bulk and re-bottle it, possibly add some magnet dust as a special ingredient and for marketing.
Here's an SDS of which I speak.
https://w3apps.phillips66.com/NetMSDS/ViewPDF.aspx?fileName=829143&Language=EN&IssueDate=7%2f2%2f2015&SubFormat=USDS
See the MSDS snapshot I posted earlier. They HAVE had SDS sheets that showed ranges for actual base oils, but the more recent ones have become significantly more vague, despite the specs on the products remaining identical. So, based on that, I would assume the product hasn't changed, simply they've made the SDS's less "revealing".
I don't think anyone can actually know what percentage of ester is contained in Red Line. The SDS shows 99% non hazardous so it could be anywhere from 1%-99% Ester with PAO taking up the difference. What I consider a 100% synthetic oil, there are very few out there and they cost more. Who would have thought it? I'm guessing there is next to no ester/pao in most easily available, heavily marketed synthetic oils, especially those that cost the least. If there were significant quantities in any of the major brands you could be sure it would be shouted from the rooftops in their advertisements. The Casstrol you can pretty much count on being whatever is cheapest contained in the bottle, they probably buy Supertech in bulk and re-bottle it, possibly add some magnet dust as a special ingredient and for marketing.
Here's an SDS of which I speak.
https://w3apps.phillips66.com/NetMSDS/ViewPDF.aspx?fileName=829143&Language=EN&IssueDate=7%2f2%2f2015&SubFormat=USDS
See the MSDS snapshot I posted earlier. They HAVE had SDS sheets that showed ranges for actual base oils, but the more recent ones have become significantly more vague, despite the specs on the products remaining identical. So, based on that, I would assume the product hasn't changed, simply they've made the SDS's less "revealing".
Mercedes E430 01
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by gamefoo21
That is very true, it seems the ester additives boost conventional oil at 5L to 500ml booster.
Ester additives?
Hyperlube ZDDP Replacement
AT-205
Those ones.
Originally Posted by gamefoo21
That is very true, it seems the ester additives boost conventional oil at 5L to 500ml booster.
Ester additives?
Hyperlube ZDDP Replacement
AT-205
Those ones.
Well it's very interesting how they get the high HTHS viscosities for each grade. In every grade, HTHS is higher than all other competitors. So either the formulation is different or their testing procedures are different. I had previously owed this to POE content...
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Lowflyer
Originally Posted by sloinker
I don't think anyone can actually know what percentage of ester is contained in Red Line.
Truly?
Look not around the parish. Look around the world...
Spectographic analyses says: 12-13%.
Your own or published sources?
https://oil-club.de/index.php?thread/17-redline-0w-40/
Quote
You've made quite a splash since joining, that's for sure. Except for deleted posts of course.
Thanks for your own opinion...
Originally Posted by Lowflyer
Originally Posted by sloinker
I don't think anyone can actually know what percentage of ester is contained in Red Line.
Truly?
Spectographic analyses says: 12-13%.
Your own or published sources?
https://oil-club.de/index.php?thread/17-redline-0w-40/
Quote
You've made quite a splash since joining, that's for sure. Except for deleted posts of course.
Thanks for your own opinion...
Originally Posted by BillyE
Well it's very interesting how they get the high HTHS viscosities for each grade. In every grade, HTHS is higher than all other competitors. So either the formulation is different or their testing procedures are different. I had previously owed this to POE content...
Very high quality, shear stable VII's.
Well it's very interesting how they get the high HTHS viscosities for each grade. In every grade, HTHS is higher than all other competitors. So either the formulation is different or their testing procedures are different. I had previously owed this to POE content...
Very high quality, shear stable VII's.
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Red Line uoa have often high lead numbers. The reson to this i do not know. I would take mobil1 over Red Line any day.
A question you can ask yourself is what makes an "ester base". If your esters are oil soluble and you also use pao to mix with and a much lower % of esters, do we call that ester based? We know the max esters you can use is around 30% in engine oil, so at what point does that become ester based? Or can we look at the entire formula and say yup it is an ester performance based oil? Interesting that redline doesn't state more info to help a consumer justify spending more on it. It's the only quieting hemi's at a large % rate, there is something to this ester formula.
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by BillyE
Well it's very interesting how they get the high HTHS viscosities for each grade. In every grade, HTHS is higher than all other competitors. So either the formulation is different or their testing procedures are different. I had previously owed this to POE content...
Very high quality, shear stable VII's.
Do you know that or are you guessing? I have seen it stated by others as fact that most RL products contain no VIIs.
Originally Posted by BillyE
Well it's very interesting how they get the high HTHS viscosities for each grade. In every grade, HTHS is higher than all other competitors. So either the formulation is different or their testing procedures are different. I had previously owed this to POE content...
Very high quality, shear stable VII's.
Do you know that or are you guessing? I have seen it stated by others as fact that most RL products contain no VIIs.
Originally Posted by BillyE
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by BillyE
Well it's very interesting how they get the high HTHS viscosities for each grade. In every grade, HTHS is higher than all other competitors. So either the formulation is different or their testing procedures are different. I had previously owed this to POE content...
Very high quality, shear stable VII's.
Do you know that or are you guessing? I have seen it stated by others as fact that most RL products contain no VIIs.
Guess I shoulda used a question mark...but since nobody, including me, seems to know the formula... I'd say I'm guessing. Do you know for a fact there are no VM's in there or is it just urban legend?
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by BillyE
Well it's very interesting how they get the high HTHS viscosities for each grade. In every grade, HTHS is higher than all other competitors. So either the formulation is different or their testing procedures are different. I had previously owed this to POE content...
Very high quality, shear stable VII's.
Do you know that or are you guessing? I have seen it stated by others as fact that most RL products contain no VIIs.
Guess I shoulda used a question mark...but since nobody, including me, seems to know the formula... I'd say I'm guessing. Do you know for a fact there are no VM's in there or is it just urban legend?
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Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted by Cheburashka
Just wonder of RedLine oil 0w40 will worth it instead of Castol 0w40 or Mobil 1 0w40 ?
It bit more pricey ... but.. is it going to protect better and last longer ? And yes.. have to decide sweet spot between money and effectiveness?
About 40% + more pricey and you'd have a real fun time proving that it really gave you anymore protection other than Redline infomercials.
Redline has infomercials?
Originally Posted by Cheburashka
Just wonder of RedLine oil 0w40 will worth it instead of Castol 0w40 or Mobil 1 0w40 ?
It bit more pricey ... but.. is it going to protect better and last longer ? And yes.. have to decide sweet spot between money and effectiveness?
About 40% + more pricey and you'd have a real fun time proving that it really gave you anymore protection other than Redline infomercials.
Redline has infomercials?
Originally Posted by burla
A question you can ask yourself is what makes an "ester base". If your esters are oil soluble and you also use pao to mix with and a much lower % of esters, do we call that ester based? We know the max esters you can use is around 30% in engine oil, so at what point does that become ester based? Or can we look at the entire formula and say yup it is an ester performance based oil? Interesting that redline doesn't state more info to help a consumer justify spending more on it. It's the only quieting hemi's at a large % rate, there is something to this ester formula.
Dave @ Redline is a great help with questions. Of course; he will not give out proprietary information, which I don't expect. I once asked him if Redline would clean piston rings and stated "Redline will keep piston rings clean." So, I'm not sure how well it actually cleans, although the type of esters of used, cleaning could be a by product.
I still think very highly of Redline motor oil, but it's application is for a niche crowd and OCD. With technology, I'm sure a high percentage of esters isn't needed.
But, I defer to the Chemists and intellectuals on these forums.
A question you can ask yourself is what makes an "ester base". If your esters are oil soluble and you also use pao to mix with and a much lower % of esters, do we call that ester based? We know the max esters you can use is around 30% in engine oil, so at what point does that become ester based? Or can we look at the entire formula and say yup it is an ester performance based oil? Interesting that redline doesn't state more info to help a consumer justify spending more on it. It's the only quieting hemi's at a large % rate, there is something to this ester formula.
Dave @ Redline is a great help with questions. Of course; he will not give out proprietary information, which I don't expect. I once asked him if Redline would clean piston rings and stated "Redline will keep piston rings clean." So, I'm not sure how well it actually cleans, although the type of esters of used, cleaning could be a by product.
I still think very highly of Redline motor oil, but it's application is for a niche crowd and OCD. With technology, I'm sure a high percentage of esters isn't needed.
But, I defer to the Chemists and intellectuals on these forums.
As for protecting better, I don't know because that is hard to determine. For steel and iron wear, I put more faith in examining how much material an oil magnet catches than I do a UOA. UOAs are actually good at detecting corrosive wear because of the small particle sizes usually involved, and I have noticed that Red Line oils tend to have higher copper and/or lead UOA wear numbers than mainstream brands. That's not necessarily a problem. Whether it is depends on how high the wear numbers are, what the bearing materials in the engine are made of, whether it has a copper oil cooler, and prior UOA history.
As for lasting longer than those other two oils, I doubt it. Those oils meet very demanding oil specifications designed for long oil change intervals.
As for lasting longer than those other two oils, I doubt it. Those oils meet very demanding oil specifications designed for long oil change intervals.
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by BillyE
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by BillyE
Well it's very interesting how they get the high HTHS viscosities for each grade. In every grade, HTHS is higher than all other competitors. So either the formulation is different or their testing procedures are different. I had previously owed this to POE content...
Very high quality, shear stable VII's.
Do you know that or are you guessing? I have seen it stated by others as fact that most RL products contain no VIIs.
Guess I shoulda used a question mark...but since nobody, including me, seems to know the formula... I'd say I'm guessing. Do you know for a fact there are no VM's in there or is it just urban legend?
No, I don't know a thing about what is in a Red Line bottle and I didn't claim to. I take all these statements with a grain of salt. I was asking in case you had some knowledge that I didn't.
Originally Posted by BillyE
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by BillyE
Well it's very interesting how they get the high HTHS viscosities for each grade. In every grade, HTHS is higher than all other competitors. So either the formulation is different or their testing procedures are different. I had previously owed this to POE content...
Very high quality, shear stable VII's.
Do you know that or are you guessing? I have seen it stated by others as fact that most RL products contain no VIIs.
Guess I shoulda used a question mark...but since nobody, including me, seems to know the formula... I'd say I'm guessing. Do you know for a fact there are no VM's in there or is it just urban legend?
No, I don't know a thing about what is in a Red Line bottle and I didn't claim to. I take all these statements with a grain of salt. I was asking in case you had some knowledge that I didn't.
Originally Posted by Cheburashka
Just wonder of RedLine oil 0w40 will worth it instead of Castol 0w40 or Mobil 1 0w40 ?
It bit more pricey ... but.. is it going to protect better and last longer ? And yes.. have to decide sweet spot between money and effectiveness?
Both Schaeffer and Amsoil have very good 0w-40s, and I'd choose them before Redline.
Just wonder of RedLine oil 0w40 will worth it instead of Castol 0w40 or Mobil 1 0w40 ?
It bit more pricey ... but.. is it going to protect better and last longer ? And yes.. have to decide sweet spot between money and effectiveness?
Both Schaeffer and Amsoil have very good 0w-40s, and I'd choose them before Redline.
Originally Posted by BillyE
No, I don't know a thing about what is in a Red Line bottle and I didn't claim to. I take all these statements with a grain of salt. I was asking in case you had some knowledge that I didn't.
No I hear ya.. and I was just positing my own theory. To me it's a discussion waay into the weeds, but that's what we do hear - right?
There are some great lubes using VM's so I know they're not necessarily an "evil", just depends on the quality of the VM..to me it's a reminder that there's a lot of science (more than we know) that goes into blending. Just look at Dino's/syn blends... some of the better ones are easily capable of 5,6 or even 7k miles. There's a UOA in the forum right now of GTX syn blend that ran like 10k miles and the UOA looked good. So Pffft, go figure... whatever the formula is on that one, it's working...I mean seriously..how many times do you see a blend go 10k miles?
No, I don't know a thing about what is in a Red Line bottle and I didn't claim to. I take all these statements with a grain of salt. I was asking in case you had some knowledge that I didn't.
No I hear ya.. and I was just positing my own theory. To me it's a discussion waay into the weeds, but that's what we do hear - right?
There are some great lubes using VM's so I know they're not necessarily an "evil", just depends on the quality of the VM..to me it's a reminder that there's a lot of science (more than we know) that goes into blending. Just look at Dino's/syn blends... some of the better ones are easily capable of 5,6 or even 7k miles. There's a UOA in the forum right now of GTX syn blend that ran like 10k miles and the UOA looked good. So Pffft, go figure... whatever the formula is on that one, it's working...I mean seriously..how many times do you see a blend go 10k miles?
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by BillyE
No, I don't know a thing about what is in a Red Line bottle and I didn't claim to. I take all these statements with a grain of salt. I was asking in case you had some knowledge that I didn't.
No I hear ya.. and I was just positing my own theory. To me it's a discussion waay into the weeds, but that's what we do hear - right?
There are some great lubes using VM's so I know they're not necessarily an "evil", just depends on the quality of the VM..to me it's a reminder that there's a lot of science (more than we know) that goes into blending. Just look at Dino's/syn blends... some of the better ones are easily capable of 5,6 or even 7k miles. There's a UOA in the forum right now of GTX syn blend that ran like 10k miles and the UOA looked good. So Pffft, go figure... whatever the formula is on that one, it's working...I mean seriously..how many times do you see a blend go 10k miles?
Your blend going 10k miles could probably easily be achieved with a good blend of oils that can do that .
Presently doing 10k on QSUD, seems to be working fine, but this thread is not about that. Might make it a blend if I find I have something left over for top-offs.. could be more QSUD could be something else.. FWIW, I always thought Redline was considered a poor choice for an extended OCI oil. Group V. High moly. Possible esters, always thought PAO. Have POE usurped both Esters and PAO?
Originally Posted by BillyE
No, I don't know a thing about what is in a Red Line bottle and I didn't claim to. I take all these statements with a grain of salt. I was asking in case you had some knowledge that I didn't.
No I hear ya.. and I was just positing my own theory. To me it's a discussion waay into the weeds, but that's what we do hear - right?
There are some great lubes using VM's so I know they're not necessarily an "evil", just depends on the quality of the VM..to me it's a reminder that there's a lot of science (more than we know) that goes into blending. Just look at Dino's/syn blends... some of the better ones are easily capable of 5,6 or even 7k miles. There's a UOA in the forum right now of GTX syn blend that ran like 10k miles and the UOA looked good. So Pffft, go figure... whatever the formula is on that one, it's working...I mean seriously..how many times do you see a blend go 10k miles?
Your blend going 10k miles could probably easily be achieved with a good blend of oils that can do that .
Presently doing 10k on QSUD, seems to be working fine, but this thread is not about that. Might make it a blend if I find I have something left over for top-offs.. could be more QSUD could be something else.. FWIW, I always thought Redline was considered a poor choice for an extended OCI oil. Group V. High moly. Possible esters, always thought PAO. Have POE usurped both Esters and PAO?
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