Oil from Power Driven Diesel

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Found this on a Youtube video by the same company. Very high in anti-wear and detergents. Not emissions safe in newer diesels.



If you can find a PDS to post please do.
 
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In some of the newer UOA's posted here, the CK4 reports are not as good as the older CJ4 reports.

The VOA reports he shows on the video are pretty impressive. I sent an e-mail asking for copies. Hopefully he will reply.
 
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Originally Posted by boltgun308
In some of the newer UOA's posted here, the CK4 reports are not as good as the older CJ4 reports.

The VOA reports he shows on the video are pretty impressive. I sent an e-mail asking for copies. Hopefully he will reply.

So you can determine the past performance of an oil via a UOA, and in this instance the future performance via a VOA?
 
I'm not making any determinations. I simply posted the information here for others to give their feedback and thoughts.

Zinc levels are over 2k PPM and Calcium is as well on the VOA. I think it is a given that high zinc and detergents are a good thing. If you disagree, that's fine.
 
Originally Posted by boltgun308
I'm not making any determinations. I simply posted the information here for others to give their feedback and thoughts.

Zinc levels are over 2k PPM and Calcium is as well on the VOA. I think it is a given that high zinc and detergents are a good thing. If you disagree, that's fine.

Interesting response, do you have any connection with Power Driven Diesel? Just wondering.
 
Nope, never met them and have never purchased anything from them. Just found the video Sunday, found the VOA analysis interesting, and thought I'd start a thread here, which I am now regretting doing so.

I own a 2001 Cummins 2500 and a Kubota tractor so I am interested in oil properties. Neither have DPF so I am considering buying some their oil to try. Was hoping for some feedback on the VOA results in the video and hopefully find someone already running it.
 
Why would you regret making the thread? Either things stand up under technical discussion or they don't. Isn't this discussion going the way you want?
 
Originally Posted by boltgun308
Nope, never met them and have never purchased anything from them. Just found the video Sunday, found the VOA analysis interesting, and thought I'd start a thread here, which I am now regretting doing so.

I own a 2001 Cummins 2500 and a Kubota tractor so I am interested in oil properties. Neither have DPF so I am considering buying some their oil to try. Was hoping for some feedback on the VOA results in the video and hopefully find someone already running it.

I've ran CJ4 and CK4 in my 6.0 PSD and honestly I didn't see much of a difference, the CK4 did seem to be less effected by Fuel dilution.
 
Originally Posted by boltgun308
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...am-2500-rotella-t6-34k-miles#Post5085259

This is the CJ4 vs CK4 comparison I mentioned. OCI's are extreme (34K) but you can see the change in oil composition between the 2 certifications. OP is adding an oil additive to get the zinc levels up for the CK4 oils

That doesn't make a strong argument when they added 11qts of oil during the interval.
 
Originally Posted by BigShug681
Originally Posted by boltgun308
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...am-2500-rotella-t6-34k-miles#Post5085259

This is the CJ4 vs CK4 comparison I mentioned. OCI's are extreme (34K) but you can see the change in oil composition between the 2 certifications. OP is adding an oil additive to get the zinc levels up for the CK4 oils

That doesn't make a strong argument when they added 11qts of oil during the interval.



hear, hear.
 
The Detroit 60 12.7L pre-egr reman crate engine I put in a new 2013 semi truck now has 1,018,260 miles on it. It started out at 0 miles with CJ-4, but switched to CK-4 a few years ago when it came out. No additional additives thrown in by me from day one. Just the motor oil. Even with I have taken it over 1 million miles, it still only uses about 1 qt of oil in 11-12,000 miles, and that was before I recently replaced a valve cover gasket and rear main seal (as a preventative measure) when I had a new clutch put in. Since those repairs, I am at 19,340 miles into this interval on the oil, and it is just now slightly below the full mark on the dipstick. I likely will not have to add any makeup oil during this OCI. And the UOA's show similar numbers as when it had only 50,000 miles on the motor. CK-4 is not inferior to CJ-4 by any stretch. There are differing formulations between CJ-4 and CK-4 and Zinc as a friction reducer is not the only game in town.
 
Originally Posted by tundraotto
Originally Posted by BigShug681
Originally Posted by boltgun308
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...am-2500-rotella-t6-34k-miles#Post5085259

This is the CJ4 vs CK4 comparison I mentioned. OCI's are extreme (34K) but you can see the change in oil composition between the 2 certifications. OP is adding an oil additive to get the zinc levels up for the CK4 oils

That doesn't make a strong argument when they added 11qts of oil during the interval.

hear, hear.

AHarmon's work is interesting,but it's not at all thorough enough to draw any legitimate conclusions. Too few samples for any combination (CJ-4, CK-4 without additives, CK-4 with additives) to make a reasonable assessment of any particular application. The sample sizes are too few and result in inaccurate stdev values. And then there's the whole make-up oil topic which clouds the dilution issue with different theories of what mathematical model to use ... Etc.

There are plenty of UOAs here that show CK-4 lubes do a fine job; lot's of them. Whether or not the CK-4 is "better" or "worse" than CJ-4 is not at all proven in the data we have seen directly posted here. But I am confident that CK-4 is perfectly acceptable for use in any application it's intended for, including backwards compatibility.
 
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I'm not sure whether 2000ppm of Zn would be beneficial; I vaguely recall reading that too much zinc can cause undue wear.

As far as PDD, they do well at UCC with their in house truck, but their fluids/fabrication/marketing are less than desirable, and largely aimed at less discerning Cummins owners.
 
Originally Posted by ofelas
I'm not sure whether 2000ppm of Zn would be beneficial; I vaguely recall reading that too much zinc can cause undue wear.

As far as PDD, they do well at UCC with their in house truck, but their fluids/fabrication/marketing are less than desirable, and largely aimed at less discerning Cummins owners.


Not a lot of info out there on their oil. In the video, he shows the oil report from Blackstone Labs at around the 9:45 mark. Over 3k Calcium and 2k zinc and phosphorous.

Not sure when those levels become too much in actual use.
 
2k zinc can be (mostly) "detrimental" for hardened valve seats. I have absolutly no idea why, but this IS real problem.

In good base oil mix, nobody on the street need more than 1400ppm of zinc. Never . The excellent Gulf Competition 10W-40, chapeau from EU, guys
thumbsup2.gif
, have 1000 zinc and 1200 phosphor (and 476 moly). And that works superb. Also whose 5W-40. Great job.

I cant recommend, with 3rd part additives, go more than 1600. If you have only catalysts and not particle filter & co. If it did, C3 is your friend.
 
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Originally Posted by BigShug681
Originally Posted by boltgun308
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...am-2500-rotella-t6-34k-miles#Post5085259

This is the CJ4 vs CK4 comparison I mentioned. OCI's are extreme (34K) but you can see the change in oil composition between the 2 certifications. OP is adding an oil additive to get the zinc levels up for the CK4 oils

That doesn't make a strong argument when they added 11qts of oil during the interval.


Yeah, I'm kind of embarrassed about that, but I thought it would be a good idea to keep the level in the SAFE range on the dipstick instead of letting the engine run dry.
Opinions may vary.
 
Originally Posted by boltgun308
Originally Posted by ofelas
I'm not sure whether 2000ppm of Zn would be beneficial; I vaguely recall reading that too much zinc can cause undue wear.

As far as PDD, they do well at UCC with their in house truck, but their fluids/fabrication/marketing are less than desirable, and largely aimed at less discerning Cummins owners.


Not a lot of info out there on their oil. In the video, he shows the oil report from Blackstone Labs at around the 9:45 mark. Over 3k Calcium and 2k zinc and phosphorous.

Not sure when those levels become too much in actual use.


It seems like PDD is trying to do a diesel version of a racing oil.
With modern ultra-low Sulfur diesel fuel, the 3000 ppm Calcium is unnecessary to control acids within reasonable oil change intervals.
There are a lot of good UOA's that one can look at on this site that have good wear numbers at 1200 ppm of Phosphorous.
 
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
The Detroit 60 12.7L pre-egr reman crate engine I put in a new 2013 semi truck now has 1,018,260 miles on it. It started out at 0 miles with CJ-4, but switched to CK-4 a few years ago when it came out. No additional additives thrown in by me from day one. Just the motor oil. Even with I have taken it over 1 million miles, it still only uses about 1 qt of oil in 11-12,000 miles, and that was before I recently replaced a valve cover gasket and rear main seal (as a preventative measure) when I had a new clutch put in. Since those repairs, I am at 19,340 miles into this interval on the oil, and it is just now slightly below the full mark on the dipstick. I likely will not have to add any makeup oil during this OCI. And the UOA's show similar numbers as when it had only 50,000 miles on the motor. CK-4 is not inferior to CJ-4 by any stretch. There are differing formulations between CJ-4 and CK-4 and Zinc as a friction reducer is not the only game in town.


I wish my engine was half as oil-tight as yours! But it is what it is.
 
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