Are all manufactures terrible now?

[PWMDMD]

Honestly, reading as much as I do it hard to not come to the conclusion that all car manufactures suck now. Every single one of them is riding the line between minimizing costs and maximizing profits. Contracts going to the lowest bidder crap and they are totally willing to accept 5% of component A will be defective from the supplier within 500 miles because they charge $X dollars less than the other supplier and it's a net gain in $$$ compared to the warranty costs. Yes, we all drove a car from a manufacture in the past for 200K miles with absolutely no problems - those days are over IMO. Between electronics, transmissions with too many gears, the need for constant innovation, manufacturing practices that penalize mistakes let alone actually stopping the line and fixing the problem immediately because it costs too much money, etc it has become nearly impossible to mass produce reliable vehicles with even a small number of defects.

Even the supposedly most reliable like Toyota/Lexus have there issues. The 8-speed Aisin transmission used in their transverse mounted vehicles has been a source of widespread complaints since it's it's introduction in 2016. I was recently reading the comments of someone who wrote a tune for the 8-speed and his comments were basically, "Wow...I'm not saying the factory tune was rushed but clearly this was done on a budget and/or with limited time as the tune was simplistic with many shortcuts." This was for a transmission that has been used in Toyota/Lexus' best selling vehicles. Lexus just recently released an updated ECU flash to deal with the drivability issues of the 8-speed THREE years after it's introduction.

I seems every manufacture is choosing cost control over quality now.

 

[wemay]

I don't see how things are different now from years past.

 

[Pike51]

I don't agree with this at all. I think the biggest difference is maintenance and the ability for people to work on their own vehicles. As vehicles become more computerized, you see different types of parts fail and a large majority of those are parts that you have to go to the dealership or service center to get fixed. The stuff that used to break isn't breaking nearly like it used to.

If you take good care of a vehicle, perform the required maintenance, keep it clean and lubricated, you generally will be able to drive it for a long long time.

 

[Imp4]

Would you rather a late 70s malaise era big three product?!?
No rust proofing.
V-8s producing 135 hp of emissions choked performance .
Garbage reliability.
Several components or systems defective from the factory.

Hard pass.
Have a great day!!

 

[CharBaby]

Well, you're not wrong. I believe that they're better in some ways and worst in other. I think that buying your last vehicle for example, a retired person looking to buy the last car they'll ever need, is long gone.

There are still better makes & models than others(as is always the case) but, the super reliable Toyota/Lexus will certainly be very costly and/or not worth repairing to some owners. I also feel that car manufactures are pushing toward and ALL-LEASE world. But, that's just me!

 

[Boomer]

I worked in a manufacturing company for decades. Cost has ALWAYS been number one. You just tell the workers to implement 6 sigma (no additional pay) or they will be fired at the rate of 10% a year ala Jack Welch of old GE "fame". Profit for the shareholders, return on equity and return on capital are always the drivers.

But even so, we are a long way from the level of errors in the past. Robotics, third party verification and even six sigma have all played a part. Robots don't come in hung over on Monday morning, computers, once properly programmed, don't make calculation errors, etc. I don't believe we could make today's engines with the technology of thirty or forty tears ago. We have a FAR greater understanding of materials science and can produce new materials and lubricants that were only dreamed of in the 1960's.

So take heart...there are some hissers out there. But also keep in mind there are a LOT of great manufactured goods. If you really want to come down on someone, blame the government for forcing car companies, for example, to innovate for extremely high MPG vehicles faster than the engineering developments can keep up.

 

[Railrust]

Well I think cost/cutting cost has always been a major problem with every manufacturer, some more than others but yes, it's always been there. The problem now is the never ending quest to meet CAFE regulations, yet provide performance up to standards in these vehicles...I think that has lead to issues across all makes and models. Direct injection, smaller engines, lighter weight oils, 8/9/10 speed transmissions, turbos...getting the most you possibly can out of a very small package, all while doing it as cheap as possible. Tough to do.

I think we have entered an age in automotive history in which technology has changed, and we are the test subjects. This is nothing new. It happens every 5-10 years. The problem is that we just left what I would consider a pretty reliable segment in automotive production (port injected fuel injection with variable valve timing). That took some time to "figure out", it had it's hiccups...and what we are seeing now is the same thing, but maybe worse because of the fuel economy demands, but it's already improved.

And as far as Lexus goes...I was in the Lexus ownership club for years...their reputation exceeds what it actually is. They have quietly had their issues all along....valve spring recalls, oil consumption on some engines, transmission problems on some, suspension design problems on their higher end LS460, brake actuator failures. Yet I do consider them pretty darn good in the grand scheme of things. I actually think Honda has taken a step back compared to Toyota, but these things are very cyclical in nature. Honda and Toyota I think will continue to go back and forth because that's their trade mark. Reliability. The Rav4 right now is a nightmare in terms of performance and transmission troubles...Toyota has lost ground to the CRV (even more than usual). Yet I think the Camry has sold more than the Accord.

 

[atikovi]

Remembering that most people in the old days didn't expect cars from the 60's and even 70's to make it to 100,000 miles, and that now, most 10 and even 20 year old cars can make it to 200,000 miles without major issues, would tell you if they suck.

 

[honeeagle]

Originally Posted by atikovi
Remembering that most people in the old days didn't expect cars from the 60's and even 70's to make it to 100,000 miles, and that now, most 10 and even 20 year old cars can make it to 200,000 miles without major issues, would tell you if they suck.


This ^^^^
how old are you? not being disrespectful but your post revels a lack of perspective .
Cars used to be crap and I remember before we had japanese imports all we got were european.The import wave made the domestics sit up and pay attention, took awhile but they are all the same now (statisicly) you have to drill down into the .000% to find a 'stinker'.
The anomaly will be breathlessly reported endlessly and repeated endlessly on the internet.
I remember the days before the web when magazines were the only way and they were only available 12 times a ..............year.
think about it

 

[levi]

Reading the thread title (Are all manufactures terrible now?) made me smile.

The problem is overdetermined - so many things influencing, impacting designing and manufacturing of vehicles.

You must remain profitable or you will cease to exist. Government regs such as safety standards, emissions, fuel economy; computer, electrical complexity; applying new technologies, designs to meet/stay ahead of competition work against that.

How could any company meet all the challenges today and still maintain rock solid reliability and profitability? Some are better than others perhaps, but no one nails it down tight anymore.

Youse pays yo money, youse takes yo chances.

 

[PimTac]

You must not be old enough to remember cars from the70's. Vehicles rusting on dealer lots. Parts missing. A whole litany of issues.

A car salesman's most used phrase; "we will take care of that before you drive it off the lot."

 

[PWMDMD]

Originally Posted by Imp4
Would you rather a late 70s malaise era big three product?!?
No rust proofing.
V-8s producing 135 hp of emissions choked performance .
Garbage reliability.
Several components or systems defective from the factory.

Hard pass.
Have a great day!!

No! Ok...car manufactures always sucked! Lol...

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Ford workers "forgot" to bolt the engine to my transmission on my F150 W/T 4.9 5-speed. Well, the starter bolts were there.

Then they didn't bolt the cab to the body up front on the last Ranger. And the head gasket blew in a month on the "made in spain" engine.

Sing, "The Coolant in Spain falls Mainly on the Driveway"

 

[PWMDMD]

Originally Posted by Railrust
Well I think cost/cutting cost has always been a major problem with every manufacturer, some more than others but yes, it's always been there. The problem now is the never ending quest to meet CAFE regulations, yet provide performance up to standards in these vehicles...I think that has lead to issues across all makes and models. Direct injection, smaller engines, lighter weight oils, 8/9/10 speed transmissions, turbos...getting the most you possibly can out of a very small package, all while doing it as cheap as possible. Tough to do.

I think we have entered an age in automotive history in which technology has changed, and we are the test subjects. This is nothing new. It happens every 5-10 years. The problem is that we just left what I would consider a pretty reliable segment in automotive production (port injected fuel injection with variable valve timing). That took some time to "figure out", it had it's hiccups...and what we are seeing now is the same thing, but maybe worse because of the fuel economy demands, but it's already improved.

And as far as Lexus goes...I was in the Lexus ownership club for years...their reputation exceeds what it actually is. They have quietly had their issues all along....valve spring recalls, oil consumption on some engines, transmission problems on some, suspension design problems on their higher end LS460, brake actuator failures. Yet I do consider them pretty darn good in the grand scheme of things. I actually think Honda has taken a step back compared to Toyota, but these things are very cyclical in nature. Honda and Toyota I think will continue to go back and forth because that's their trade mark. Reliability. The Rav4 right now is a nightmare in terms of performance and transmission troubles...Toyota has lost ground to the CRV (even more than usual). Yet I think the Camry has sold more than the Accord.


Maybe that's it...we've just recently finished a relatively reliable time for auto manufacturing (port injection/5 or 6-speed transmissions/Simple infotainment) and now we are entering a new phase. I'm thinking about some of the most reliable vehicles currently made and they tend to be older designs with simpler tech: 4-runner and GX460 - old designs, simple tech but rock solid reliability.

 

[PWMDMD]

Originally Posted by PimTac
You must not be old enough to remember cars from the70's. Vehicles rusting on dealer lots. Parts missing. A whole litany of issues.

A car salesman's most used phrase; "we will take care of that before you drive it off the lot."


Well, I was born at the end of the 70's so...no.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Cost cutting does not have to mean quality cutting. It should mean better manufacturing engineering.
Cars are better (and safer) today than ever.

But yes, there have been issues; there always will be.

 

[PWMDMD]

Originally Posted by honeeagle
Originally Posted by atikovi
Remembering that most people in the old days didn't expect cars from the 60's and even 70's to make it to 100,000 miles, and that now, most 10 and even 20 year old cars can make it to 200,000 miles without major issues, would tell you if they suck.


This ^^^^
how old are you? not being disrespectful but your post revels a lack of perspective .
Cars used to be crap and I remember before we had japanese imports all we got were european.The import wave made the domestics sit up and pay attention, took awhile but they are all the same now (statisicly) you have to drill down into the .000% to find a 'stinker'.
The anomaly will be breathlessly reported endlessly and repeated endlessly on the internet.
I remember the days before the web when magazines were the only way and they were only available 12 times a ..............year.
think about it


No disrespect taken. Part of gaining perspective is discussing issues with others - the entire purpose of my post. I was not a car owner in the 60's, 70's or 80's....sounds like a dark time for cars.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by PimTac
You must not be old enough to remember cars from the70's. Vehicles rusting on dealer lots. Parts missing. A whole litany of issues.

A car salesman's most used phrase; "we will take care of that before you drive it off the lot."


Well, I was born at the end of the 70's so...no.




The 70's Malaise was around ten to twelve years of bad times. The Saudi oil boycott. Gas rationing. (Even/odd days). Inflation. Interest rates well into the teens. Unemployment was also well into the teens and in some places like where I lived in the PNW it was around 20%

It makes the Great Recession of 2008 look tame in comparison.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

The old stuff was usually fixable by the dealer or you. Not as many "mysteries" other than lifted grounds and pinched hot wires.

Our Subaru's seem improved (other than worsened handling or the engines) and free of niggling issues. . I like our 1996 imp wagon with the EJ22 and a 5 speed the best. car was perfect.

I find too many cars throwaway commodities - like we treated early Hyundai and Daewoo a dn maybe even GM Chevettes.and Acadians
and that's why I'm leasing for a couple years.

Maybe the Challenger SRT 392 with a m/t would change my mind and be a keeper !

 

[Mackelroy]

I think there are some manufacturing improvements out there, but like you say, some are cheeping out on anything they can.

Both my vehicles have 150,000+ miles , no intension to waste money on a new one, ones a chevy and the other a Toyota. Much cheaper to fix them , than a car payment.