Diesel dead for everyday CUV/Cars?

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by dustyroads
Ok, that did cross my mind I guess. I don't yet know if there's any difference on heavy trucks between a new DPF and one that was cleaned at 350k miles. I know the guy that cleaned my first one said some are worse than others but they can be cleaned up to near new performance (exhaust flow).

Going back 10+ years, I read articles saying that deposits baked on to the DPF weren't all the same. It was said that engine oils heavy on magnesium created deposits much more tenacious than oils that were primarily calcium based (speaking of detergents).

State of DPF depends on oils used. I know some people who meticulously maintained their M57 in BMW and did cleaning. I know also some who used all kind of oils, bcs everything is same and it is just big conspiracy, and cleaning did not work.

 

[Gasbuggy]

Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Modern diesels are terrible choice for commuting in stop and go traffic or for very short distances. The engine will be in a perpetual state of regeneration and fuel economy will be in the toilet. When combined with the initial cost versus that of gasoline, the increased cost in fuel versus that of gasoline, and the increased cost in maintenance, it is a total non-starter.

Unless things dramatically change in design of emission systems, passenger car diesels will go the way of the dodo within two decades.


My brothers 15 Passat is averaging 45mpg in a commute with a lot of traffic. Seems to stomp on the gas version in any driving scenario.

 

[Bailes1992]

I've owned 5N° sub 2.0 4 cylinder diesels now with DPF's, EGR's and SCR. I've clocked up 150k between them in 5 years and generally they've been okay.

My First Euro 6 diesel was a 2015 Ford Focus 1.5TDCi which kept dumping it's diesel into the oil during regen. However, I never once noticed it doing a regen and as far as I was aware they were all successful. I then had a 2016 Focus 1.5TDCi which was absolutely fine and never suffered the same rising oil level.

My Father has a 2012 BMW 320d Auto Sport, he's covered 150k in it and sold it last weekend. He has had it since it was brand new and other than 20k OCI's, filters every 40k and two front anti roll bar bushes it has been perfect. I've done at least 50k of the 150k total and I never once felt it do a regen. It's been an amazing car. It really makes me wonder why the majority of Americans have an issue with BMW. He's just replaced it with an Alfa Romeo Giulia Technica 2.2JTDm Auto and I don't doubt it will have a few issues but I bet none are them are emissions related.

Our Euro 6 diesels produce less PM, NOx and CO2 than our Euro 6 equivalents. I don't think small diesels in Europe are going anywhere just yet.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted by Gasbuggy
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Modern diesels are terrible choice for commuting in stop and go traffic or for very short distances. The engine will be in a perpetual state of regeneration and fuel economy will be in the toilet. When combined with the initial cost versus that of gasoline, the increased cost in fuel versus that of gasoline, and the increased cost in maintenance, it is a total non-starter. Unless things dramatically change in design of emission systems, passenger car diesels will go the way of the dodo within two decades.
My brothers 15 Passat is averaging 45mpg in a commute with a lot of traffic. Seems to stomp on the gas version in any driving scenario.
The power of a diesel for a commuter is not the issue--the emissions systems, maintenance, regenerations, and overall cost to buy/operate are and that is where the gasoline version "stomps" the diesel version. I will be you a steak dinner that if his Passat did not have DEF/SCR/DPF, that his mileage would be exponentially greater. How do I know? I owned a 1981 Volkswagen Rabbit Diesel that consistently made 55-60 MPG in all sorts of driving conditions. In fact, if memory serves the owner's manual stated that if the MPG dropped below 50 to take it to the dealer because something was wrong.

 

[RooflessVW]

Your 81 Rabbit also weighed a few ounces and had half a horsepower.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Your 81 Rabbit also weighed a few ounces and had half a horsepower.
No argument there, but the fact that without DEF/SCR/DPF diesels make more power and have better MPG as well as costing substantially more than their gasoline counterparts to own and operate still stands.

 

[Winterpeg]

I just traded a cruze diesel with 40,000 miles on it.I fell in love with the torque and bought one.Sadly for me I only used it in the city and that ended up being a $2500 warranty repair to pull the head and clean the valves and intake of carbon.Dealer said out of pocket non warranty would have been $3500.Couple that with water pump replaced twice,timing belt due to being soaked with coolant,def tank heater and a few emissions sensors,a glow plug.While this was all warranty work I couldn't sleep at night knowing the warranty was up and what's coming next.Lots of people on forums with similar issues.The highway ones seem to be ok but still coke up the engine but to a lesser extent.So take my advice,do not buy one for the city.The carboning problem starts gradually,rough idle on first start,clears up when warm,mileage starts to go down.Lots of people on the forums talking about this problem and they have no idea what's coming.EGR is killing these cars,some are deleting theirs for $1500 or so,so where's the savings in highway mileage there.My 2019 Camry non hybrid got 51mpg on a recent highway trip.

 

[javacontour]

And 0-60 was measured with a calendar...

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Your 81 Rabbit also weighed a few ounces and had half a horsepower.

 

[tig1]

A friend has a Cruz diesel with about 100K and the belt broke. He's not sure about the damage yet, but believes the engine may be terminal.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted by tig1
A friend has a Cruz diesel with about 100K and the belt broke. He's not sure about the damage yet, but believes the engine may be terminal.

Most diesels are interference fit, so yes, likely toast.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Modern diesels are terrible choice for commuting in stop and go traffic or for very short distances. The engine will be in a perpetual state of regeneration and fuel economy will be in the toilet. When combined with the initial cost versus that of gasoline, the increased cost in fuel versus that of gasoline, and the increased cost in maintenance, it is a total non-starter.

Unless things dramatically change in design of emission systems, passenger car diesels will go the way of the dodo within two decades.


The change has to come from the OEM's themselves. Better emissions technology already exists that solves many of the problems that current technology has. It also takes all of the emissions control off the diesel engine. No more need to make the engine eat its own feces via EGR and the engine can be tuned for maximum efficiency. And the down stream technology is far better and solves many issues with current DEF/SCR issues. And since EGR can be eliminated from the diesel, it results is less soot generation by the engine and leads to fewer DPF regens and greatly extended DPF life cycle.

 

[JTK]

For present day, ordinary passenger vehicle production, diesel engines need to die if they already haven't.

Like said, the equipment needed to them to keep them emissions compliant crushes the life out of them and makes maintenance and costs impossible to justify.

Same reason you hear GM 6.0L gas engines howling along in UPS trucks applications these days. They gave up on the smaller diesels for now.

 

[Bjornviken]

Not in EU. German cars offers diesel engine in their new cars.
Those who drive much will benefit from diesel. And diesel car ban in some big citys are for older diesel cars. And now some oil coporation offers synth diesel that can cut 90% off the emission. So not yet.