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Re: Engine Break-In - Found the answer [Re: IndyFan] #5209955 09/11/19 09:17 AM
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buster Offline OP
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Originally Posted by IndyFan
With this never-ending controversial topic, it looks like there are actually some things upon which we all, including German engineers, agree:

-Vary the RPM during break-in.

-Rings need at least some time to seat.

-Other components need to break-in, as well.

-German engineers are methodical.

-Germany lost WWII.

-Before they ultimately lost, they put a pretty quick and sound beating on France.



LOL cheers


2020 Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 Impreza Sport - OE fill
Re: Engine Break-In - Found the answer [Re: buster] #5209962 09/11/19 09:20 AM
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Nice write up, thanks for that.


Lates.
Re: Engine Break-In - Found the answer [Re: buster] #5209985 09/11/19 09:52 AM
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KrisZ Offline
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So it seems they're circulating warm water in the engine to help speed up the warmup process and the dyno test run lasts about 30 minutes and they also go to 80% RPM in several increments. I would imagine the engine is at full operating temp after about 20 minutes of this. I guess since Porsche engines are packed in the back, the engine can get hotter in some rush hour traffic, but I don't believe in this engineer's statement "When we do our engine test, the metals inside the engine never reach the temperatures they would when driven on the street since the test session is fairly short.". Never is quite a bold statement. Driving on the streets can mean many, many different things.

And I guess that's the crux of the problem. There are so many variables that manufacturers simply want to play it safe. If they printed that hard break in was allowed, I bet some moron would go out on the highway and go 100mph because he needs to brake in his engine properly. People simply have different understanding and interpretation of things.

Manufacturers don't want to deal with this. So they say take it easy and set the acceptable oil consumption levels really high to minimize warranty expenses.


2015 Grand Caravan 3.6L - 35k miles.
2006 Mazda 3 2.0L - 186k miles
Re: Engine Break-In - Found the answer [Re: buster] #5209993 09/11/19 10:11 AM
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Interesting that on my 2019 JGC Hemi, they do recommend some WOT after initial 500 miles, to help in the break in.
Within legal speeds of course.....


2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit 5.7L Hemi
2019 RAV4 Limited Hybrid
2016 Sorento SX V6 AWD
2010 Mazda 3 2.0L
Re: Engine Break-In - Found the answer [Re: buster] #5209996 09/11/19 10:17 AM
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VNTS Offline
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I follow Mototune method on the brand newones. Prefer to seat the rings better, and yes Jeep indirectly says breif full throttle acceleration within limits of the law and varying RPM constitutes good break in right in the owners manual for break in.


1986 Daytona TurboZ 2.2
2000 Durango 5.9
2002 WJ 4.7
2005 PT GT 2.4T 5spd
2006 PT GT 2.4T 5spd
2006 PT 2.4
2015 Overland Hemi
2017 SRT Challenger
2018 Sahara 3.6
2020 Rubicon 3.6
Mopar or No Car!
Re: Engine Break-In - Found the answer [Re: buster] #5210014 09/11/19 10:54 AM
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Quote
they think differently than North Americans, lots of planning and theory done before execution, versus the NA approach of getting into the problem, shirt sleeves rolled up, right away and finding a solution after multiple attempts.


with some machinery you have only one attempt /

Re: Engine Break-In - Found the answer [Re: buster] #5210015 09/11/19 10:57 AM
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My 2019 RAM advised "brief" acceleration to near the top of the RPM range (without redlining) then allowing the vehicle to decelerate back to low RPM's. I followed it, and did a preemptive OC at 1000 miles.

Re: Engine Break-In - Found the answer [Re: buster] #5210021 09/11/19 11:00 AM
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bobdoo Offline
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I read an article a long time ago, I think in Cycle Magazine, by Gordon Jennings, I think, that discussed ring breakin.

Heavy throttle application near the torque peak RPM, for a second or so at a time, 20 seconds off-throttle. This would literally break off the peaks left by honing the cylinder.

In some way, similar to mototune.

I have done this on over 10 cycles, 6 cars, 5 snowmobiles. I had a timing belt replaced on my 2000 Outback, 125,000ish miles. Asked the tech to check compression. He told me afterwards that he had to check comp twice, as he didn't believe how high and even it was. IIRC 135ish PSI.

OBTW, I test-drove this car when it was brand-new. Was trading-in a modded Mitsu Eclipse AWD turbo. Wanted to know if I could deal with half the power. Ran it to 125ish MPH WOT all the way. Subaru shock damping produces very severe porpoising at 125ish MPH!

Re: Engine Break-In - Found the answer [Re: VNTS] #5210025 09/11/19 11:08 AM
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paoester Offline
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Originally Posted by VNTS
I follow Mototune method on the brand newones. Prefer to seat the rings better, and yes Jeep indirectly says breif full throttle acceleration within limits of the law and varying RPM constitutes good break in right in the owners manual for break in.
"Brief" full throttle acceleration shouldn't be long enough to create hot spots you would think.

Still Volkswagen (2019 Tiguan OM) says:

Break-in period
A new engine must be carefully broken in during the first 1000 miles (1600 kilometers). During the first few hours of driving, the engine's internal friction is higher than later when all moving parts have been broken in.

Breaking in a new engine
Do not use full throttle.
Don't let the engine speed get above 2/3 of the maximum speed.
Do not tow a trailer.
Speed may gradually be increased to maximum permissible road and engine speed.
Engine life is influenced by how you drive the vehicle for the first 1000 miles (1600 km). Even afterwards, driving at moderate engine speeds, especially when the engine is cold, will tend to reduce engine wear and help the engine to last longer and go farther. But do not drive at an excessively low engine speed, either. Always downshift if the engine is not running smoothly.


I've already done the Jeep-Mototune method discussed above by VNTS, on my '19 Tiguan low-performance car. I hit high RPM briefly in its first 200 miles. I don't think it will hurt it. After all, the rings should twist in their seats, spending about ~equal time on all parts of the rounded face, where twist amount is governed by load & rpm ranges.
Some engine makers think moly cuts down on those hot areas.

Re: Engine Break-In - Found the answer [Re: KrisZ] #5210044 09/11/19 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by KrisZ
So it seems they're circulating warm water in the engine to help speed up the warmup process and the dyno test run lasts about 30 minutes and they also go to 80% RPM in several increments. I would imagine the engine is at full operating temp after about 20 minutes of this. I guess since Porsche engines are packed in the back, the engine can get hotter in some rush hour traffic, but I don't believe in this engineer's statement "When we do our engine test, the metals inside the engine never reach the temperatures they would when driven on the street since the test session is fairly short.". Never is quite a bold statement. Driving on the streets can mean many, many different things.

And I guess that's the crux of the problem. There are so many variables that manufacturers simply want to play it safe. If they printed that hard break in was allowed, I bet some moron would go out on the highway and go 100mph because he needs to brake in his engine properly. People simply have different understanding and interpretation of things.

Manufacturers don't want to deal with this. So they say take it easy and set the acceptable oil consumption levels really high to minimize warranty expenses.


That is a very good point. I agree.

I find it interesting too that Nissan goes by 1,200 miles. Where did they get that number from? LOL. What if someone does a few WOT at 950 miles? Why not 1,000 miles? Weird.

I just got back from an appointment and just hit 1,200 miles. I gave it a good WOT wink


2020 Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 Impreza Sport - OE fill
Re: Engine Break-In - Found the answer [Re: paoester] #5210060 09/11/19 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by paoester
Originally Posted by VNTS
I follow Mototune method on the brand newones. Prefer to seat the rings better, and yes Jeep indirectly says breif full throttle acceleration within limits of the law and varying RPM constitutes good break in right in the owners manual for break in.
"Brief" full throttle acceleration shouldn't be long enough to create hot spots you would think.

Still Volkswagen (2019 Tiguan OM) says:

Break-in period
A new engine must be carefully broken in during the first 1000 miles (1600 kilometers). During the first few hours of driving, the engine's internal friction is higher than later when all moving parts have been broken in.

Breaking in a new engine
Do not use full throttle.
Don't let the engine speed get above 2/3 of the maximum speed.
Do not tow a trailer.
Speed may gradually be increased to maximum permissible road and engine speed.
Engine life is influenced by how you drive the vehicle for the first 1000 miles (1600 km). Even afterwards, driving at moderate engine speeds, especially when the engine is cold, will tend to reduce engine wear and help the engine to last longer and go farther. But do not drive at an excessively low engine speed, either. Always downshift if the engine is not running smoothly.


I've already done the Jeep-Mototune method discussed above by VNTS, on my '19 Tiguan low-performance car. I hit high RPM briefly in its first 200 miles. I don't think it will hurt it. After all, the rings should twist in their seats, spending about ~equal time on all parts of the rounded face, where twist amount is governed by load & rpm ranges.
Some engine makers think moly cuts down on those hot areas.


from jeep, 2015 Manual

ENGINE BREAK-IN RECOMMENDATIONS
A long break-in period is not required for the engine and
drivetrain (transmission and axle) in your vehicle.
Drive moderately during the first 300 miles (500 km).

While cruising, brief full-throttle acceleration within the
limits of local traffic laws contributes to a good break-in.
Wide-open throttle acceleration in low gear can be detrimental
and should be avoided.


1986 Daytona TurboZ 2.2
2000 Durango 5.9
2002 WJ 4.7
2005 PT GT 2.4T 5spd
2006 PT GT 2.4T 5spd
2006 PT 2.4
2015 Overland Hemi
2017 SRT Challenger
2018 Sahara 3.6
2020 Rubicon 3.6
Mopar or No Car!
Re: Engine Break-In - Found the answer [Re: buster] #5210062 09/11/19 11:50 AM
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With what we know, I will say that lugging the engine is far worse than a few WOT's.


2020 Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 Impreza Sport - OE fill
Re: Engine Break-In - Found the answer [Re: KGMtech] #5210064 09/11/19 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by KGMtech
German Engineers are not the only smart ones, however they think they are. I worked for a German company for 24 years, they think differently than North Americans, lots of planning and theory done before execution, versus the NA approach of getting into the problem, shirt sleeves rolled up, right away and finding a solution after multiple attempts.


IIRC a Toyota spokesperson essentially said the same thing when he spoke about their collaboration with BMW on the Supra.

Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 09/11/19 11:54 AM.

“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

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Re: Engine Break-In - Found the answer [Re: buster] #5210066 09/11/19 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by buster
With what we know, I will say that lugging the engine is far worse than a few WOT's.


Yes, I agree. I would also add compression braking as a benefit.

And with today's wide spread ratio automatics and CVTs, many engines not only spin at very low RPM, but they also don't do any compression braking, unless in sport mode or manually prompted.


2015 Grand Caravan 3.6L - 35k miles.
2006 Mazda 3 2.0L - 186k miles
Re: Engine Break-In - Found the answer [Re: buster] #5210071 09/11/19 12:02 PM
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True Kris. I took the Subaru out last night and put it into manual mode to put some moderate load on the engine.


2020 Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 Impreza Sport - OE fill
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