Red line 15W-40 vs Tractor Supply Traveller 15W-40

[JLTD]

What I think doesn't matter - what a UOA's results indicate, does. Without a UOA it is all guesswork, even your PCM because it doesn't actually analyze the oil- its indication is only a mathematical estimate using a complicated algorithm. As shown numerous times on this forum, no algorithm can be as accurate as a UOA.

Use what you want. Traveller will likely work very well; I simply suggested Schaeffer's because you said the redline was very expensive, so I was giving you redline performance (or better) at a lower price point.

My apologies for getting off topic and not answering… Traveller's oil will probably do just as good of job at a short interval as any other oil.

 

[BillyE]

Is there objective evidence that Schaeffers is better than Redline and/or Travellers, on any interval?

 

[sloinker]

There is plenty of evidence that Red Line and other boutique oils perform better in circumstances that are challenging to mass marketed, less expensive oils in shorter intervals, heat and shear are the biggest culprits better addressed with PAO and Esters in realistic viscosity numbers. You don't see many race engines using Traveler, not for long anyways. When you look at the VOA and UOA of an oil and what you plan to use it for and at what interval....there's your road map to success. For a diesel the traveler may be just fine and a couple tests will tell you what OCI you can get away with. I remember granny using pennies in the fuse box. Never an issue and last forever.

 

[BillyE]

Originally Posted by sloinker
There is plenty of evidence that Red Line and other boutique oils perform better


Can you give an example?

 

[sloinker]

Originally Posted by BillyE
Originally Posted by sloinker
There is plenty of evidence that Red Line and other boutique oils perform better


Can you give an example?

If you are going to quote me , don't be a t urd and use the whole context.
Next time the World of Outlaws, NHRA, AMA are in town or you are shopping at your local Porsche,BMW, Ferrari dealership for a new car, take a look around and ask the parts person for some Traveler or look in the dumpster for empty Traveler jugs at the races. You seem pretty cheap. Perhaps you can go to the JiffyLube and request a couple of gallons of waste oil, strain it through a tube sock, add some Dawn for detergent and a medium size dirt clod for the minerals. Do a VOA and UOA and get back to us.

 

[BillyE]

Originally Posted by sloinker
Originally Posted by BillyE
Originally Posted by sloinker
There is plenty of evidence that Red Line and other boutique oils perform better


Can you give an example?

If you are going to quote me , don't be a t urd and use the whole context.
Next time the World of Outlaws, NHRA, AMA are in town or you are shopping at your local Porsche,BMW, Ferrari dealership for a new car, take a look around and ask the parts person for some Traveler or look in the dumpster for empty Traveler jugs at the races. You seem pretty cheap. Perhaps you can go to the JiffyLube and request a couple of gallons of waste oil, strain it through a tube sock, add some Dawn for detergent and a medium size dirt clod for the minerals. Do a VOA and UOA and get back to us.


I'm sorry I offended you. The question was about diesel oils for 6.7 powerstrokes. I really don't care about Porsche, BMW, or Ferrari, nor do I care about any of the racing associations. I'm talking about a street driven F-350. And I see that you get angry when I asked you to back up your statements. You called me a turd and cheap. All I've asked is if this is an opinion or is it based on fact and you refuse to answer the question. I have my answer, though. Thanks.

 

[sloinker]

Originally Posted by BillyE
Originally Posted by sloinker
Originally Posted by BillyE
Originally Posted by sloinker
There is plenty of evidence that Red Line and other boutique oils perform better


Can you give an example?

If you are going to quote me , don't be a t urd and use the whole context.
Next time the World of Outlaws, NHRA, AMA are in town or you are shopping at your local Porsche,BMW, Ferrari dealership for a new car, take a look around and ask the parts person for some Traveler or look in the dumpster for empty Traveler jugs at the races. You seem pretty cheap. Perhaps you can go to the JiffyLube and request a couple of gallons of waste oil, strain it through a tube sock, add some Dawn for detergent and a medium size dirt clod for the minerals. Do a VOA and UOA and get back to us.


I'm sorry I offended you. The question was about diesel oils for 6.7 powerstrokes. I really don't care about Porsche, BMW, or Ferrari, nor do I care about any of the racing associations. I'm talking about a street driven F-350. And I see that you get angry when I asked you to back up your statements. You called me a turd and cheap. All I've asked is if this is an opinion or is it based on fact and you refuse to answer the question. I have my answer, though. Thanks.


I already told you the answer you wanted to hear. The Traveler in your application is fine. Is it better than other oils in that application? Nope. Is it cheaper? Yes. I don't have a test mule to do a comparison between Traveler and Red Line/Amsoil/Schaeffer's etc. If this is what you are asking for.

 

[BillyE]

Originally Posted by sloinker
I already told you the answer you wanted to hear. The Traveler in your application is fine. Is it better than other oils in that application? Nope. Is it cheaper? Yes. I don't have a test mule to do a comparison between Traveler and Red Line/Amsoil/Schaeffer's etc. If this is what you are asking for.


What I'm asking about is there any tests that show Red Line to be superior to any regular HDEO (Traveller is an example) for a diesel engine. If the answer is no, then ok. Look, I've been receiving Red Line oil by the crate at my house for years. I'm not a hater. It's very possible I've actually bought more quarts of Red Line products than any single user on this board. On paper, they look very good. Strong Z/P, high HTHS for the grade, etc. I'm surprised that there is so little objective proof that one oil is better than another for typical street applications (this is true of diesel or gas applications). I haven't seen any evidence that UOAs are different either, although UOAs tell you about the oil and you can only infer the health of the engine from that. What I'd really like to see is someone actually test oils in controlled environments and make comparisons, whether they are on engines or simulated tests.

Certification of CK-4 oil requires passing a test protocol that includes corrosion tests, seal compatibility tests, foaming, shear stability, wear, fouling tests, among others. If Traveller (my example of an ultra-cheap oil) can pass these tests, then why can't Red Line? Or if the question is why does Red Line not submit to the test, then why not? It can't be about the cost of the test. What margin could Traveller possibly be playing with, yet they have CK-4 and F1 approval. So I at least know that in the Traveller oil, when tested according to ASTM D5966, meets maximum pin wear requirements. I don't know about Red Line. I know a lot of people say it's just as good or better than Traveller, but this is based on what? It's just an example. I hope you see my point.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted by BillyE
Is there objective evidence that Schaeffers is better than Redline and/or Travellers, on any interval?


You could check out the UOA's posted by TiredTrucker. He uses Schaeffer's in his Detroit Diesel on very long intervals. He swears by Schaeffer products, and buys them by the barrel.

 

[sloinker]

Hard to get objective proof on any motor oil. You can find data sheets on some of them,(boutiques), they may meet specifications but not be certified, they may NOT meet specifications and not be certified. You are left to trust the veracity of the manufacturer, any VOA/UOA, SDS sheets, etc. Red Line/Amsoil/Schaeffer's oils enjoy a good reputation among the folks that use them. Most of these folks are looking to gain something beyond what the off the shelf products may offer. Extended oil changes, tolerance of extreme temperatures are the two most common. In a diesel with normal service and OCI there is probably no good reason to use a boutique or even a full synthetic. Seems the OTR truckers are going huge distance OCI's now with semi-syn oil.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by sloinker
Hard to get objective proof on any motor oil. You can find data sheets on some of them,(boutiques), they may meet specifications but not be certified, they may NOT meet specifications and not be certified. You are left to trust the veracity of the manufacturer, any VOA/UOA, SDS sheets, etc. Red Line/Amsoil/Schaeffer's oils enjoy a good reputation among the folks that use them. Most of these folks are looking to gain something beyond what the off the shelf products may offer. Extended oil changes, tolerance of extreme temperatures are the two most common. In a diesel with normal service and OCI there is probably no good reason to use a boutique or even a full synthetic. Seems the OTR truckers are going huge distance OCI's now with semi-syn oil.

Only for some motor oils, not all of them. If they carry a required manufacturer approval or meet a required specification then that is the objective proof that's required. It is in fact the most objective proof.

You have correctly defined the problem comes in for the others that don't have those approvals or meet the required specifications. You are then reduced to trying to discern from an SDS or UOA/VOA whether it does in fact meet the requirements for your vehicle, which is actually impossible to do so from such data sources. At that point you must rely on the reputation of the blender - which may be good or may not be so good. Sometimes you can tell a lot about their reputation by how obfuscating they are on the SDS, unethical companies try and make it appear they have certain approvals or specifications when in reality they do not.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Schaeffer's didn't care about 26k miles in my well used Cummins 6.7.

I'm currently using Redline, but next oil change will be something cheap with big TBN so I can continue to do extended oil changes.

 

[BillyE]

So I feel like we are back to the beginning. Red Line might be better, might be the same, or might be inferior to any other oil in terms of real wear. Even for things like extended OCIs, I have not seen evidence that Red Line lasts longer than anything else. Until someone decides to push the OCI and collect samples for UOA, then turn around and do the same thing for Brand X, then we won't have any evidence that one is better than another.

It's not to say anything bad about Red Line. My point is just that there is no actual performance data out there to show one brand is better than another, and so we are left looking at what we have in terms of certifications. And Red Line doesn't carry the certs, for whatever reason. This makes it hard for me to say that Red Line is superior in any way. I can't even say that it is equivalent. I don't know. Yes, they have a great reputation. That reputation was built from success in markets like drag racing and 2-cycle engines. They make a lot of specialty products not offered elsewhere. But there is one spec that is specific to my engine, the Ford F1 spec, and Red Line does not meet that spec. Dozens or hundreds of no-name oils do.

 

[claluja]

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-10-070-miles-amsoil-ss-5w40#Post5063896

Red Line 15w40 compared here to T6 5w40 and Amsoil SS 5w40, in same engine.

 

[BillyE]

Originally Posted by claluja
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-10-070-miles-amsoil-ss-5w40#Post5063896

Red Line 15w40 compared here to T6 5w40 and Amsoil SS 5w40, in same engine.


I've seen that, thanks. Unfortunately, the truck was deleted in the middle of the tests so it makes comparison very hard.

 

[BoiseRob]

I find it humorous that people call the oldest oil company in the country "boutique". Schaeffer Manufacturing was founded in 1839...

 

[BillyE]

I didn't use that term, but I think it fits:

boutique noun, often attributive
bou·​tique | \ bü-ˈtēk \
Definition of boutique
1a: a small shop dealing in fashionable clothing or accessories
b: a small shop within a large department store
2: a small company that offers highly specialized services or products
boutique wineries
an independent investment boutique

"Small" is relative to ExxonMobil, Shell, or ConocoPhillips

 

[T-Stick]

I can't think of one reason why I would feel the urge to run, or even consider running Redline, in a "diesel application" when there are so many other proven options that meet all the diesel specs..