So I've been using RL in my 6.7 since the first oil change. All is good. About 50k miles on it now. It's expensive... probably close to $130 per oil change. Really really expensive. But I do it because I thought it was better. So then I was reading some more and someone wrote (I don't remember where—doesn't matter) that ester oils passivate steel and reduce the effectiveness of ZDDP. Now I have no idea if that's true or not. Doesn't matter. But here's the point—I asked myself is it possible that RL is WORSE than other oils. I think the answer is yes. I'm not saying RL isn't an excellent oil. My point is that I don't know. It's not tested by any third party. So, the cheapest oil I have found, TSC Traveller brand, has approvals and is vetted by third parties, specifically API and Ford. On the other hand, RL has nothing in their favor but marketing on their website. So is it complete insanity to pay so much for a diesel oil change when I really don't know that I'm getting anything that's better? What do you think? I'm sure there are opinions, but are there any tests showing RL is in fact superior? Are there any showing it is even equivalent?
Red line 15W-40 vs Tractor Supply Traveller 15W-40
- Thread starter BillyE
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I think it depends a lot on type of use and interval. Mostly I would say you are wasting your money unless there is a special consideration(s) you may be facing. Remember that Red Line isn't 100% ester but maybe about 25% and PAO's with an add pack that usually has a high proportion of the ZDDP. There is an oil on the market that has even higher levels of ester content and was developed for Cummins to clean the carbon from the piston lands. It is a manufacturers maintenance procedure to be used as needed before reverting back to whatever you usually use that meets specs.
I'm a fan of Redline oils; I run it in my Corvette, and have run it in my Camaro, but I won't run it in my Dodge diesel. I don't see the logic of a $130 oil change, and still having the 15w40 viscosity grade. If I'm going to pay for synthetic, I want it to be at least 5w40 so I get the benefit of cold start performance. And besides, there is no inherent advantage to using a synthetic when it comes to wear. That is in the additive pack, and a quality conventional oil is every bit as good as synthetic in that respect. The main reason I buy Redline is the strong anti-wear additive pack, and its extreme high temperature oxidation resistance. I have had the Corvette oil temperature as high as 315F on the racetrack, and haven't had a problem. (God knows how hot it got in the Camaro; it never had an oil temperature gauge.) I think the Motorcraft 15w40 that you find at Walmart for $18 a gallon would work fine in your 6.7. After all, Ford worked with C-P to develop it to overcome valvetrain wear issues in that engine.
Originally Posted by A_Harman
And besides, there is no inherent advantage to using a synthetic when it comes to wear. That is in the additive pack, and a quality conventional oil is every bit as good as synthetic in that respect
This is what I'm not sure of. The whole point of oil is to prevent or reduce wear. So what is the purpose of Redline diesel oil? Based on what you're saying, there's no advantage to Redline oil except for racing applications.
And besides, there is no inherent advantage to using a synthetic when it comes to wear. That is in the additive pack, and a quality conventional oil is every bit as good as synthetic in that respect
This is what I'm not sure of. The whole point of oil is to prevent or reduce wear. So what is the purpose of Redline diesel oil? Based on what you're saying, there's no advantage to Redline oil except for racing applications.
What are you trying to achieve running Redline oil? I have found that running any quality properly rated oils will allow engine life past the ownership of the vehicle and then some.. We have todays semi truck engines running over a million miles + with conventional oils . It seems to reason that if Amsoil or Redline oils made any difference the operators of such vehicles would run syns in their $50,000. 00 more or less engines. A quote from skyactive ".I'm a mechanic at UPS. The yard shiftier trucks that move trailers around the sort facilitates have a lower output Cummins 6.7 in them. The older trucks had a 5.9 Cummins. Those engines typically last 25K hours, but I've seen 30K."
Originally Posted by BillyE
Originally Posted by A_Harman
And besides, there is no inherent advantage to using a synthetic when it comes to wear. That is in the additive pack, and a quality conventional oil is every bit as good as synthetic in that respect
This is what I'm not sure of. The whole point of oil is to prevent or reduce wear. So what is the purpose of Redline diesel oil? Based on what you're saying, there's no advantage to Redline oil except for racing applications.
What ever marketing leads us to believe.
Originally Posted by A_Harman
And besides, there is no inherent advantage to using a synthetic when it comes to wear. That is in the additive pack, and a quality conventional oil is every bit as good as synthetic in that respect
This is what I'm not sure of. The whole point of oil is to prevent or reduce wear. So what is the purpose of Redline diesel oil? Based on what you're saying, there's no advantage to Redline oil except for racing applications.
What ever marketing leads us to believe.
Originally Posted by BillyE
Originally Posted by A_Harman
And besides, there is no inherent advantage to using a synthetic when it comes to wear. That is in the additive pack, and a quality conventional oil is every bit as good as synthetic in that respect
This is what I'm not sure of. The whole point of oil is to prevent or reduce wear. So what is the purpose of Redline diesel oil? Based on what you're saying, there's no advantage to Redline oil except for racing applications.
Redline 15w40 has a very strong antiwear additive package, as do other oils. The unique property of Redline 15w40 that I can think of would be shear resistance for Powerstroke 7.3, 6.0, and 6.4 engines, which have the HEUI injection systems. The high pressure oil pump in these engines are notorious for shearing 5w40 oils to 30-weight. As long as oil temperatures are running less than 280F, I don't really see a need for the oxidation resistance of Redline.
Originally Posted by A_Harman
And besides, there is no inherent advantage to using a synthetic when it comes to wear. That is in the additive pack, and a quality conventional oil is every bit as good as synthetic in that respect
This is what I'm not sure of. The whole point of oil is to prevent or reduce wear. So what is the purpose of Redline diesel oil? Based on what you're saying, there's no advantage to Redline oil except for racing applications.
Redline 15w40 has a very strong antiwear additive package, as do other oils. The unique property of Redline 15w40 that I can think of would be shear resistance for Powerstroke 7.3, 6.0, and 6.4 engines, which have the HEUI injection systems. The high pressure oil pump in these engines are notorious for shearing 5w40 oils to 30-weight. As long as oil temperatures are running less than 280F, I don't really see a need for the oxidation resistance of Redline.
Run Delo XSP 5W-40.
I'm running Traveller 15w40 in my dads 2016 LML Duramax. The last OCI was 591 hours, the engine seems to run just as quiet on Traveller as it has on Delo SDE. I've used Mobil Delvac in it once, but it does the typewriter tick pretty bad on it. TSC puts the 2.5 gallon jugs of Traveller on sale for $20 sometimes. I think it's a great oil for the money.
I like Redline and run their gear oils. I recently found a deal of 3 gallons of their 15w40 for $50 and it's the current fill in my VM Motori 3.0L Diesel.
As far as Tractor Supply oils go I'm sure they're great but if you find them still selling Mystik JT8 15w40 Synblend 15w40 I'd spring for that instead. It showed lower wear numbers than the previously ran full synthetics. Check out the UOA.
P.S. I'll be posting the UOA from the Redline 15w40 but it may take awhile as I'm only at 4k of the 15k interval I want to run (A_Harman inspired me) instead my usual 5k.
As far as Tractor Supply oils go I'm sure they're great but if you find them still selling Mystik JT8 15w40 Synblend 15w40 I'd spring for that instead. It showed lower wear numbers than the previously ran full synthetics. Check out the UOA.
P.S. I'll be posting the UOA from the Redline 15w40 but it may take awhile as I'm only at 4k of the 15k interval I want to run (A_Harman inspired me) instead my usual 5k.
Originally Posted by SavagePatch
I like Redline and run their gear oils.
I got hooked on their gear oils too. My first experience was in the early 90s, I had a VW golf 5 speed that didn't shift worth a crap using anything other than Redline MTL. Then later I had a very similar experience with shifting my BW T5 in my fox body mustang. Plus, at the time Redline was the only synthetic gear oil w/o friction modifier, allowing me to add just the right amount for my trac-lock rear end. So there was objective evidence that Redline oils were different from other oils. I can't say the same about engine oil. In fact, I can't even surely say that Redline is even as good as the cheapest options out there, when those cheapest options carry a third party endorsement (API and Ford) and Redline doesn't. It makes me wonder why Redline doesn't. I know back in the day, certs cost money and Redline was a small company. Now, Redline is owned by Phillips, so they should be able to get a cert if the oil really performed. Am I missing something?
I like Redline and run their gear oils.
I got hooked on their gear oils too. My first experience was in the early 90s, I had a VW golf 5 speed that didn't shift worth a crap using anything other than Redline MTL. Then later I had a very similar experience with shifting my BW T5 in my fox body mustang. Plus, at the time Redline was the only synthetic gear oil w/o friction modifier, allowing me to add just the right amount for my trac-lock rear end. So there was objective evidence that Redline oils were different from other oils. I can't say the same about engine oil. In fact, I can't even surely say that Redline is even as good as the cheapest options out there, when those cheapest options carry a third party endorsement (API and Ford) and Redline doesn't. It makes me wonder why Redline doesn't. I know back in the day, certs cost money and Redline was a small company. Now, Redline is owned by Phillips, so they should be able to get a cert if the oil really performed. Am I missing something?
Originally Posted by BillyE
So I've been using RL in my 6.7 since the first oil change. All is good. About 50k miles on it now. It's expensive... probably close to $130 per oil change. Really really expensive. But I do it because I thought it was better. So then I was reading some more and someone wrote (I don't remember where—doesn't matter) that ester oils passivate steel and reduce the effectiveness of ZDDP. Now I have no idea if that's true or not. Doesn't matter. But here's the point—I asked myself is it possible that RL is WORSE than other oils. I think the answer is yes. I'm not saying RL isn't an excellent oil. My point is that I don't know. It's not tested by any third party. So, the cheapest oil I have found, TSC Traveller brand, has approvals and is vetted by third parties, specifically API and Ford. On the other hand, RL has nothing in their favor but marketing on their website. So is it complete insanity to pay so much for a diesel oil change when I really don't know that I'm getting anything that's better? What do you think? I'm sure there are opinions, but are there any tests showing RL is in fact superior? Are there any showing it is even equivalent?
Maybe check out Schaeffer's? Big drop in price (through a rep), professional truckers swear by it, and great UOAs.
I did a VOA on Traveller 5w-30 awhile back, and while that doesn't come close to comparing with a 15w-40 diesel oil, it didn't strike me as having better additives....but the price IS very low.
So I've been using RL in my 6.7 since the first oil change. All is good. About 50k miles on it now. It's expensive... probably close to $130 per oil change. Really really expensive. But I do it because I thought it was better. So then I was reading some more and someone wrote (I don't remember where—doesn't matter) that ester oils passivate steel and reduce the effectiveness of ZDDP. Now I have no idea if that's true or not. Doesn't matter. But here's the point—I asked myself is it possible that RL is WORSE than other oils. I think the answer is yes. I'm not saying RL isn't an excellent oil. My point is that I don't know. It's not tested by any third party. So, the cheapest oil I have found, TSC Traveller brand, has approvals and is vetted by third parties, specifically API and Ford. On the other hand, RL has nothing in their favor but marketing on their website. So is it complete insanity to pay so much for a diesel oil change when I really don't know that I'm getting anything that's better? What do you think? I'm sure there are opinions, but are there any tests showing RL is in fact superior? Are there any showing it is even equivalent?
Maybe check out Schaeffer's? Big drop in price (through a rep), professional truckers swear by it, and great UOAs.
I did a VOA on Traveller 5w-30 awhile back, and while that doesn't come close to comparing with a 15w-40 diesel oil, it didn't strike me as having better additives....but the price IS very low.
Originally Posted by Linctex
TSC Traveler Oil no longer comes from Warren Oil of Omaha. Nebraska.....
I'm thinking....
Now probably the same source that Rural King oil comes from?
The second part of your equation is way wrong
Rural King bend oil is Warren Oil from Dunn NC
Traveller oil I hear is Martin lubricants
TSC Traveler Oil no longer comes from Warren Oil of Omaha. Nebraska.....
I'm thinking....
Now probably the same source that Rural King oil comes from?
The second part of your equation is way wrong
Rural King bend oil is Warren Oil from Dunn NC
Traveller oil I hear is Martin lubricants
Originally Posted by BillyE
Originally Posted by JLTD
Maybe check out Schaeffer's?
What is Schaeffers going to do that Traveller isn't?
One thing at least is likely a longer drain interval - which, possibly, could save money.
[insert negative comment here from someone about emptying your pocket more rapidly...]
Originally Posted by JLTD
Maybe check out Schaeffer's?
What is Schaeffers going to do that Traveller isn't?
One thing at least is likely a longer drain interval - which, possibly, could save money.
[insert negative comment here from someone about emptying your pocket more rapidly...]
Originally Posted by JLTD
Originally Posted by BillyE
Originally Posted by JLTD
Maybe check out Schaeffer's?
What is Schaeffers going to do that Traveller isn't?
One thing at least is likely a longer drain interval - which, possibly, could save money.
[insert negative comment here from someone about emptying your pocket more rapidly...]
Well you'd have to increase your drain interval roughly three-fold for that to break even. Traveller is about $10/gal, while the different Schaeffer varieties run around $30/gal. My current interval is determined by the PCM and averages 8k miles. Do you think Schaeffers can go to 24k? If it did, I'd do it. But I doubt that is the case, considering fuel dilution and soot loading will still occur regardless of the oil used.
Originally Posted by BillyE
Originally Posted by JLTD
Maybe check out Schaeffer's?
What is Schaeffers going to do that Traveller isn't?
One thing at least is likely a longer drain interval - which, possibly, could save money.
[insert negative comment here from someone about emptying your pocket more rapidly...]
Well you'd have to increase your drain interval roughly three-fold for that to break even. Traveller is about $10/gal, while the different Schaeffer varieties run around $30/gal. My current interval is determined by the PCM and averages 8k miles. Do you think Schaeffers can go to 24k? If it did, I'd do it. But I doubt that is the case, considering fuel dilution and soot loading will still occur regardless of the oil used.
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