Has Honda VCM changed for 2019 Pilot?

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ls973800

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First Honda product I've owned, 2019 Pilot AWD. I have read about the VCM problems in the past on these vehicles and also about the aftermarket "muzzlers" or other products to prevent the VCM from kicking on.

I have also read that the 2019 models have a different system than the one that was used in the past. I have also heard that even the systems in previous years lately were also improved and changed.

Is there any proof that the system is now greatly improved in the 2019 model? Should I just install a "muzzler" and forget about it?

Plan on keeping this vehicle a long time and I do have a 96 month, 120000 mile warranty on it from Honda Care. Have 7000 miles right now and the car is 6 months old, never noticed any problems yet.
 
Inherently, I think the concept is flawed.

I would strongly consider installing a VCM disabling device of some type.
 
Nothing inherently wrong with the concept, only the execution. I have a 2015 Pilot, that has the 2nd generation VCM. Not a lick of trouble, nor any oil consumption after 75,000 miles. I, too, was skeptical and had heard of the VCM problems. I bought one of those muzzlers, but it just caused check engine lights because it shifted the coolant temperature too far down and made it think it was running too cold. I believe the oil consumption and spark plug fouling issues were already addressed by making sure it didn't deactivate cylinders for too long, and I think the only other issue was with the active motor mounts that dampen the vibration. Those may or may not have been improved by now.
 
Owner of a 2016 Odyssey here, which has the "2-stage" VCM (3/4/6 cylinders), widely considered to be the worst of the various incantations. There are many muzzling devices available. Many of them are available with OEM connectors, so they can be removed without a trace in case of warranty, re-sale, etc.

My muzzler is one of the more advanced ones, with a microprocessor that actively monitors and adjusts the coolant temperature signal, and also passes through overheat conditions. The simple resistor-style can work too, but can also cause the symptoms mentioned by Dave Sherman above if it's not adjusted correctly.

Check out some Pilot/Odyssey forums for vendors of these devices. The biggest "problem" with the VCM technology, in my opinion, is that not everyone has problems. Some folks get lucky and run their vehicles to 250k+ miles with VCM enabled. Some get unlucky and fork over thousands for a ring job 2 months after the warranty expires.

The fact that OP has had no problems thus far is meaningless. The time/mileage is too short. In fact, this true by default for any 2019 vehicle. Until we have a few years of evidence demonstrating otherwise, we have to assume it is still a problem. This is a slow-burn for sure. Symptoms include excessive oil consumption due to ruined rings, misfire codes, ruined spark plugs. Usually a ring job is required. Other side effects include ruined motor mounts ($$$$$), excessive vibration when VCM is enabled (or just every time it kicks on/off).

I'll also add that anecdotally, the fuel economy gains from VCM are small, dubious at best, and seem to depend heavily on driving style and terrain. There's gotta be someone inside Honda clinging desperately to the "sunk cost fallacy" else they would have ditched this technology.
 
I recently ended up removing the Muzzler in my Pilot. It worked great for several years but started setting a P0128 code way too frequently. The temp gauge fluctuated from operating temp back down to cold like the thermostat was bad. Removed it and the temp gauge is stable again. Shame b/c it's a great product otherwise. Now, I'm back to living dat VCM life again.
 
I did mention that so far at 7000 miles I have had no problems. What I really meant is that I have never felt when the VCM kicked in or out, no vibrations, nothing. I couldn't even tell you if it has ever engaged.

The first 4000 miles were 95% highway driving during a vacation. Now I am doing about 50/50 highway/city. I understand that 7000 miles is pretty meaningless in the scheme of things right now.
 
Originally Posted by ls973800
I did mention that so far at 7000 miles I have had no problems. What I really meant is that I have never felt when the VCM kicked in or out, no vibrations, nothing. I couldn't even tell you if it has ever engaged.

The first 4000 miles were 95% highway driving during a vacation. Now I am doing about 50/50 highway/city. I understand that 7000 miles is pretty meaningless in the scheme of things right now.


My understanding regarding the 2017 model year is that when you see the green "Eco" light come on, the VCM is engaged.
 
It's not just the VCM from what I understand. The other part is the very expensive motor and transmission mounts Honda uses to mask VCM operation. They apparently will go out if VCM is being constantly used and these are something like $800 for mounts alone, not counting the labor.
 
Our Honda Pilot is now three years old with about 40 k miles, and I can honestly say I couldn't tell you if, or when the VCM has come on. The Pilot has an eco button / mode which I have never used. I thought ECO mode was when VCM kicked in ...

Otherwise, the Pilot has not had one single issue, no rattles or squeaks, ok mileage, great on winter roads. No complaints.
 
Originally Posted by ls973800
First Honda product I've owned, 2019 Pilot AWD. I have read about the VCM problems in the past on these vehicles and also about the aftermarket "muzzlers" or other products to prevent the VCM from kicking on.
I have also read that the 2019 models have a different system than the one that was used in the past. I have also heard that even the systems in previous years lately were also improved and changed.
Is there any proof that the system is now greatly improved in the 2019 model? Should I just install a "muzzler" and forget about it?
Plan on keeping this vehicle a long time and I do have a 96 month, 120000 mile warranty on it from Honda Care. Have 7000 miles right now and the car is 6 months old, never noticed any problems yet.


I believe the system is the same as 2017 and up which has reduced modes compared to prior VCM.

Its actually a really good implementation compared to some I've experienced.

It very unobtrusive but noticeable under certain conditions - open windows

if you've ever driven a stick it feels like pulling a high gear instead of downshifting.

Eco mode doenst turn it on and off its a condition of speed and load

The unit uses high voltage motor mounts to counter the frequency change and damp out the mill when running on 3 vs 6


UD
 
As U D says the eco button has nothing to do with vcm operation. As far as my Pilot I couldn't tell when vcm was activated but I put a muzzler on it anyway and monitor cooling temp using my scanner.
 
Originally Posted by benjayman227
Owner of a 2016 Odyssey here, which has the "2-stage" VCM (3/4/6 cylinders), widely considered to be the worst of the various incantations. There are many muzzling devices available. Many of them are available with OEM connectors, so they can be removed without a trace in case of warranty, re-sale, etc.

My muzzler is one of the more advanced ones, with a microprocessor that actively monitors and adjusts the coolant temperature signal, and also passes through overheat conditions. The simple resistor-style can work too, but can also cause the symptoms mentioned by Dave Sherman above if it's not adjusted correctly.

Check out some Pilot/Odyssey forums for vendors of these devices. The biggest "problem" with the VCM technology, in my opinion, is that not everyone has problems. Some folks get lucky and run their vehicles to 250k+ miles with VCM enabled. Some get unlucky and fork over thousands for a ring job 2 months after the warranty expires.

The fact that OP has had no problems thus far is meaningless. The time/mileage is too short. In fact, this true by default for any 2019 vehicle. Until we have a few years of evidence demonstrating otherwise, we have to assume it is still a problem. This is a slow-burn for sure. Symptoms include excessive oil consumption due to ruined rings, misfire codes, ruined spark plugs. Usually a ring job is required. Other side effects include ruined motor mounts ($$$$$), excessive vibration when VCM is enabled (or just every time it kicks on/off).

I'll also add that anecdotally, the fuel economy gains from VCM are small, dubious at best, and seem to depend heavily on driving style and terrain. There's gotta be someone inside Honda clinging desperately to the "sunk cost fallacy" else they would have ditched this technology.


Do you think maybe you could share the name of the vendor that offers the "advanced" version of the VCM disabler? Would be greatly appreciated. I have the first version VCM II in my Accord. No problems at all. I just change the oil 4-5 K and pay attention to the PCV valve. Keeping it until electric goes more mainstream. Regarding some ppl having problems and others not having any; this is true of any make. There are always ppl that will find a way to mess something up no matter how good it is.
 
Originally Posted by NormanBuntz
Originally Posted by ls973800
I did mention that so far at 7000 miles I have had no problems. What I really meant is that I have never felt when the VCM kicked in or out, no vibrations, nothing. I couldn't even tell you if it has ever engaged.

The first 4000 miles were 95% highway driving during a vacation. Now I am doing about 50/50 highway/city. I understand that 7000 miles is pretty meaningless in the scheme of things right now.


My understanding regarding the 2017 model year is that when you see the green "Eco" light come on, the VCM is engaged.


I cant swear to it about the 2017 but one the older models you are correct, I would assume it is the same.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by NormanBuntz
Originally Posted by ls973800
I did mention that so far at 7000 miles I have had no problems. What I really meant is that I have never felt when the VCM kicked in or out, no vibrations, nothing. I couldn't even tell you if it has ever engaged.

The first 4000 miles were 95% highway driving during a vacation. Now I am doing about 50/50 highway/city. I understand that 7000 miles is pretty meaningless in the scheme of things right now.


My understanding regarding the 2017 model year is that when you see the green "Eco" light come on, the VCM is engaged.


I cant swear to it about the 2017 but one the older models you are correct, I would assume it is the same.


True on older models but not on 2016 and newer.
 
I just sold my 2005 Odyssey with over 200,000 miles. I think this was the first year Honda used VCM. It worked flawlessly and was hardly noticeable in operation. I know others have had VCM related problems, but I would venture to say that some 14 years later Honda has probably engineered out any issues VCM might have caused. I would put more faith in Honda than I would in any of those home built muzzles out there.
 
Originally Posted by mtndew_dad
I just sold my 2005 Odyssey with over 200,000 miles. I think this was the first year Honda used VCM. It worked flawlessly and was hardly noticeable in operation. I know others have had VCM related problems, but I would venture to say that some 14 years later Honda has probably engineered out any issues VCM might have caused. I would put more faith in Honda than I would in any of those home built muzzles out there.


Honda wouldn't have had to pay 1.6 million vehicle owners if they had "engineered out any issues". Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.
smile.gif


Honda VCM Class Action suit
 
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by mtndew_dad
I just sold my 2005 Odyssey with over 200,000 miles. I think this was the first year Honda used VCM. It worked flawlessly and was hardly noticeable in operation. I know others have had VCM related problems, but I would venture to say that some 14 years later Honda has probably engineered out any issues VCM might have caused. I would put more faith in Honda than I would in any of those home built muzzles out there.


Honda wouldn't have had to pay 1.6 million vehicle owners if they had "engineered out any issues". Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.
smile.gif


Honda VCM Class Action suit


Early gen def had issues.
That suit covered up to 2013.
I think the OP is safe at this stage.


UD
 
Last edited:
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