Tesla vs Porsche...

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by odotb
So you have formed this negative view of Tesla, and have never owned one?


Why, yes. Have you owned every product out there that you think is junk?

 

[JeffKeryk]

As an owner, I can tell you our Model 3 is amazing, futuristic. And really fun cuz it goes like .... Wow!
There is nothing else like it, junk parts and all.
Can be so tame in traffic, yet when you wanna fly just touch the "gas" pedal; instant torque.
Wanna blow your mind? Push the right stalk down twice for AP...
Futuristic?
For example, driving our GS or TSX, after driving the 3, makes the other cars seem overly complicated; almost confusing.
What's all these buttons for?
The GS is a great car, the Model 3 is the future.

The wonderful, crazy expensive Taycan is simply evidence of Elon Musk's vision and leadership.
He has changed the world, while as others have pointed out, having zero experience building cars.
Junk parts and all.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
As an owner, I can tell you our Model 3 is amazing, futuristic. And really fun cuz it goes like .... Wow!
There is nothing else like it, junk parts and all.
Can be so tame in traffic, yet when you wanna fly just touch the "gas" pedal; instant torque.
Wanna blow your mind? Push the right stalk down twice for AP...
Futuristic?
For example, driving our GS or TSX, after driving the 3, makes the other cars seem overly complicated; almost confusing.
What's all these buttons for?
The GS is a great car, the Model 3 is the future.

The wonderful, crazy expensive Taycan is simply evidence of Elon Musk's vision and leadership.
He has changed the world, while as others have pointed out, having zero experience building cars.
Junk parts and all.


There is no arguing that the Tesla offers a unique experience, I just feel like Elon is going to end up as a footnote as a pioneer, when others take over.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Speaking to the quality issue, Tesla is delivering some very poor fitment on body panels that I have seen personally. My buddy Ross is the paint guy at a McLaren dealer here. He gets paid fabulous sums to line up the body panels and correct the paint issues with new Teslas. He has found ridiculous things used for shims, etc., in these supposedly high quality cars.

All the Tesla fans missed my point earlier. The Porsche will deliver a nice performance envelope that IMO will be a far better driving experience for performance oriented folks who actually track their cars. It's not just absolute numbers.

Judging by the paint and panel fitment I see on other newer Porsches I suspect the Taycan will be a quality piece.

I suspect that some Tesla owners are just virtue signalers enjoying their first responsive car...

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
Speaking to the quality issue, Tesla is delivering some very poor fitment on body panels that I have seen personally. My buddy Ross is the paint guy at a McLaren dealer here. He gets paid fabulous sums to line up the body panels and correct the paint issues with new Teslas. He has found ridiculous things used for shims, etc., in these supposedly high quality cars.

All the Tesla fans missed my point earlier. The Porsche will deliver a nice performance envelope that IMO will be a far better driving experience for performance oriented folks who actually track their cars. It's not just absolute numbers.

Judging by the paint and panel fitment I see on other newer Porsches I suspect the Taycan will be a quality piece.

I suspect that some Tesla owners are just virtue signalers enjoying their first responsive car...


Put on your flame suit, rofl!

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted by Ws6

I wouldn't buy a Tesla because it logistically fails to meet my needs


Summed up nicely!

I need a car. I can afford a new car. I can't put up with the limitations of electric cars. 1000 miles in one day, coming up today or tomorrow. The model (whatever) can't do what a Nissan Altima can (that is go 600 miles at 85mph, refuel quickly and keep going) .

I love driving them, but they fail to meet my needs.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by Ws6

I wouldn't buy a Tesla because it logistically fails to meet my needs


Summed up nicely!

I need a car. I can afford a new car. I can't put up with the limitations of electric cars. 1000 miles in one day, coming up today or tomorrow. The model (whatever) can't do what a Nissan Altima can (that is go 600 miles at 85mph, refuel quickly and keep going) .

I love driving them, but they fail to meet my needs.

Exactly.
Once EV's get to 1000mi range, I will buy one. Until then...hard no.

Why 1000mi? Because I can comfortably drive about 6-700mi in a day, before I want to call it a day. If it has 1K miles published range, then I presume it should get 700ish when it's cold, and I'm doing 80-85mph.

Until it hits that point, it's just a toy to me, and a Tesla or Taycan or whatever isn't good value in the smiles per dollar category for me, compared to other things that will actually hold value.

 

[4WD]

They should have never started 85 mph speed limits and debate EV at the same time …
Don't they both tank on efficiency at that speed …

 

[JeffKeryk]

Regarding needs... Very few people can afford a $100K car or $185K, especially one range limited like the Taycon.
And the Taycon has no charging network so its range is far lower than rated because you gotta get home or to a properly equipped dealer or ?

Where is Tesla going? It ain't the 1% market.
The Model 3, the Y and the truck.
400 mile range (for all their cars) is on the horizon with fast charging. Take that other car makers...
For 2019 the junk Model 3 is in something like the top 30 selling vehicles, including trucks, suvs, etc.
Wait till the Y is released. (Yes, it will be late.)

People talk about lack of profit.
Building out a Supercharger network is expensive but essential for mass adoption of EVs.

Tesla is so far ahead of the pack; it is not even close. Heck, the Taycan doesn't even have AP.
Truth is, if you are gonna actually drive it, all things considered, the $60K Model 3 Performance is a far better buy then the $185K Taycan.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted by Ws6


I dunno, I don't make cars for a living. I just know it sucks for those who got one.

Look, if you're a fan of wandering off into uncharted territory and using the wrong parts because it's all that's available, that's cool. I'd prefer a '68 Cobra kit car though, if we're going to play that game. Point is, you'll defend anything because you're just a fanboy. The data is in, and Tesla is not quality. What it IS, is new and exciting, and some people care more about that than well-made or quality.


LOL, I'm a fanboy now and will defend anything apparently. Sure, whatever makes you feel better about your position.
I never said Tesla vehicles are quality vehicles all around.
I called you out on the junk comment and consumer grade parts and as I suspected, you have nothing of substance to back your claims.
Now that others chimed in saying they're not junk vehicles, but have problems you are backpedaling and saying Tesla is not quality, which I agree with.

So how about that? It went from junk to not a quality piece.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by Ws6


I dunno, I don't make cars for a living. I just know it sucks for those who got one.

Look, if you're a fan of wandering off into uncharted territory and using the wrong parts because it's all that's available, that's cool. I'd prefer a '68 Cobra kit car though, if we're going to play that game. Point is, you'll defend anything because you're just a fanboy. The data is in, and Tesla is not quality. What it IS, is new and exciting, and some people care more about that than well-made or quality.


LOL, I'm a fanboy now and will defend anything apparently. Sure, whatever makes you feel better about your position.
I never said Tesla vehicles are quality vehicles all around.
I called you out on the junk comment and consumer grade parts and as I suspected, you have nothing of substance to back your claims.
Now that others chimed in saying they're not junk vehicles, but have problems you are backpedaling and saying Tesla is not quality, which I agree with.

So how about that? It went from junk to not a quality piece.






You're such a fanboy you missed the links to all that mess? Jeez.

Here you go, again, just for you:

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows-why-automotive-grade-matters

Spells out word for word how their desire to just shoe-horn a laptop screen (literally) into a car, with minimal testing, resulted in abject failure. It also explains how Tesla reversed their decision to warranty the screen, after saying they would, and are now sticking customers with the repairs. Way to go.

Quote
As early as April 19th, 2019, Tesla owners began to report that new screens were available and that replacement appointments could be scheduled. At least two pro-Tesla Youtubers did receive the new replacement screen, but another owner posted an invoice that suggested the new unit was simply remanufactured. Then, this Friday reports started coming in stating that Tesla had suddenly changed its mind and that yellowing screens would not be replaced for free (a recent rumor suggests that Tesla is discontinuing all "goodwill repairs"). The first owner to report this has a five-month-old car with the yellowing screen, and has already endured a series of hair-raising service issues, and at least two others had an appointment to replace his screen canceled unceremoniously.


Bad product from a bad company, is my take. No thanks.

 

[KrisZ]

Like I said, it comes with the territory. New technologies will always be problematic. Weren't many people stiffed with expensive periodic intake cleanings with their early DI engines? How about many CVT transmission failures until Nissan decided to extend warranty on them? First single clutch automatic transmissions in many luxury and exotic cars were simply a nightmare. Were these things consumer grade too using your logic? The industry as a whole is guilty of pushing technologies without properly testing them first.

 

[UncleDave]

Hilarious!

On the scale of bad products from a bad company - The VW group stands right at the very top of heap.

The VW group has been fined BILLIONS for attempting to cheap and skirt regulations - not Telsa I dont even know what the amount is anymore.

Then they lied about the etrons range.

Then Audi issued a recall for water ingress into the battery causing a fire hazard/


- but we can trust them now?


Go ahead and focus on that screen.........

UD

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
Speaking to the quality issue, Tesla is delivering some very poor fitment on body panels that I have seen personally. My buddy Ross is the paint guy at a McLaren dealer here. He gets paid fabulous sums to line up the body panels and correct the paint issues with new Teslas. He has found ridiculous things used for shims, etc., in these supposedly high quality cars.

All the Tesla fans missed my point earlier. The Porsche will deliver a nice performance envelope that IMO will be a far better driving experience for performance oriented folks who actually track their cars. It's not just absolute numbers.

Judging by the paint and panel fitment I see on other newer Porsches I suspect the Taycan will be a quality piece.

I suspect that some Tesla owners are just virtue signalers enjoying their first responsive car...



Never seen any tesla worse than my 17 ridgeline in terms of fitment quality.

I refused to take delivery of it and the body shop worked on it 3 days to get it to acceptable level.

Wish it weren't so.

UD

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
Speaking to the quality issue, Tesla is delivering some very poor fitment on body panels that I have seen personally. My buddy Ross is the paint guy at a McLaren dealer here. He gets paid fabulous sums to line up the body panels and correct the paint issues with new Teslas. He has found ridiculous things used for shims, etc., in these supposedly high quality cars.

All the Tesla fans missed my point earlier. The Porsche will deliver a nice performance envelope that IMO will be a far better driving experience for performance oriented folks who actually track their cars. It's not just absolute numbers.

Judging by the paint and panel fitment I see on other newer Porsches I suspect the Taycan will be a quality piece.

I suspect that some Tesla owners are just virtue signalers enjoying their first responsive car...



Never seen any tesla worse than my 17 ridgeline in terms of fitment quality.

I refused to take delivery of it and the body shop worked on it 3 days to get it to acceptable level.

Wish it weren't so.

UD



The body panel fitment is bad though. I see many Teslas on my daily commute and by now I can easily spot the bad alignment of the bright trim from one panel to the next. Up close, many look like they were in an accident, with uneven gaps on the hood or trunk.
But that doesn't mean the whole car is junk.

 

[DoubleWasp]

I will say that this brand of "experiment and run from the results" is hardly a Tesla specific issue. Doesn't hold a candle to Ford and the DCT.

Ford also had its own "screen issue" they tried to run and hide from.

Far as the two cars mentioned in the original post? Meh. I couldn't care about either one. An electric Porsche excites me about as much as a lawn mower that can paint a house. I just have no desire for the Tesla either.

Where the two of them are concerned, it's just a mixed bag of the same nuts. If I were to grant Porsche the same "imagine what it will be like when......" attitude that Tesla has always gotten, then I guess they are both great cars.

 

[4WD]

Sounds like Tesla should stop rolling out new models and perfect some issues. If you got solid fit and finish that's a good sign because I certainly have seen panels out of line … especially white models.

Too soon to tell if the Porsche is a great car, but no shortage of assumptions based on the name and price
Some rich & no brains owner will surely have to have one hauled home and pushed into the garage... LoL

 

[Vikas]

Open offer to Boston Metrowest complainers :-

Drop me a line and we meet. You can count all of the misaligned body panels on my M3 Performance. Make sure you bring enough fingers with you

Once that is done, hop in the drivers sit and we will go for a short ride.

After coming back, I will ask you about the body panels.

You will say "what body panels?"

 

[JeffKeryk]

Folks, the numbers don't lie.
The Model 3 is killing it. No Beemer sells even what, 1/3 as many cars?
Must be those junk body panels...
It is simply a great car. Ask an owner.

Just wait until the Y is released.
Tesla just might have 2 of its 4 cars in the top 30 sold vehicles including trucks.
The other S and X are out of the reach of most.
Those darn panels!


Sales

 

[DoubleWasp]

Honestly, I think Tesla would get a better break from perception if Tesla had a better leader. I was watching about how Elon Musk believes that overpopulation is not a concern and that we need as many warm bodies as possible to take care of our aging population.

I had to rub the bridge of my nose just to get through the video. He was joined in his opinion by another wealthy Space Case; Jack Ma of Alibaba.

But this is of course a double edged sword. There are those who absolutely love Musk and would buy a lit stick of dynamite from him in the middle of a gasoline refinery.