Recent Topics
Deleted vs Non-Deleted UOA
by oakaro68 - 10/18/19 05:30 AM
3.2 V6 Cayenne oil help
by Abax25 - 10/18/19 04:16 AM
Can cops sit in the median with no lights on at night time?
by motor_oil_madman - 10/18/19 12:24 AM
2012-2014 Lexus GS350 AWD Reliability?
by GZRider - 10/17/19 10:28 PM
Switch to High Mileage Oil or No?
by Blake1107 - 10/17/19 10:21 PM
Found this funny
by taztheman - 10/17/19 10:04 PM
How much gas to start a 3L or larger engine?
by paulri - 10/17/19 09:54 PM
Syneresis, learned a new word today!
by Cujet - 10/17/19 09:28 PM
What is more important in an oil?
by Rglossip - 10/17/19 08:03 PM
Chevy 2.4 Oil Burner Oil/Filter Change?
by GaryPoe - 10/17/19 07:57 PM
2016 F150 2.7 UOA 4k
by tomcruise - 10/17/19 07:13 PM
Mobil1 5W-30, 8,200mi, 2017 Expl 2.3EBBB
by Whimsey - 10/17/19 07:01 PM
How To Avoid Deer?
by Passport1 - 10/17/19 06:41 PM
Mazda6 P0401 code
by miden851 - 10/17/19 06:15 PM
2004 Crown Vic shock/ struts recommendation
by umungus1122 - 10/17/19 06:12 PM
Undercarriage pics of my 2003 E46 330Ci ZSP
by SLO_Town - 10/17/19 06:11 PM
Porter Cable air compressor not shutting off
by JLawrence08648 - 10/17/19 06:06 PM
OCI older car, modern oil
by VQLT - 10/17/19 05:24 PM
Newest Members
jmichels, Collins92, Paul_Millner, kelsdawnj, Emtp1990
69591 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
44 registered members (Abax25, Bailes1992, AlienBug, billt460, Amkeer, bbhero, 1 invisible), 875 guests, and 24 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics296,125
Posts5,091,607
Members69,591
Most Online3,532
Jul 30th, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
85-140w - Power Loss in light Japanese truck #5205875 09/06/19 04:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
S
Spoonydan Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
My first post, so hi everyone smile

I've got an old 1991 FG 4x4 Mitsubishi Canter truck. 3.3l diesel, formerly non-turbo, but now Turbo smile. 4.5t truck so even turbo it's still a bit slow with an old 3.3l 4cyl soot chucker. It would be lucky to have 110-120hp

While trying to chase a drivetrain whine on recommendation I changed the Transfer and Diff's to Dino 85-140w (previously Dino 80w90)

However I'm now certain it has lost power, in such a vehicle this is most noticed on hills. Ie the ability hold speed or how much speed one looses.
Am I going crazy or it possible the drag of such thicker lube could be noticeable?

The rear diff is LSD front is opened (and not engaged on sealed roads, so out of the picture).

Manual states

Manual Transmission:
Normal region SAE 80 Warm region: SAE 90 (I'm inAustralia so it certainly can get warm)

Transfer:
Normal region SAE 80 Warm region: SAE 90

Rear LSD:
SAE 90 LS

Front:
Below 40DegC(104f): SAE 90 Above 40degC(104f); SAE:140

I've isolated the diff (driveshafts out, centre handbrake to load gearbox/transfer) and it's not causing the whine. I've also pulled the inspection cover off the transfer and it looks really good inside with no play anywhere so it's likely from the gear box.

It'd like to know fluids should I change to ensuring good protection but also minimising drivetrain loss?

I'm thinking splurging and going full-synth.
Given the above specs I'm guessing a 75w85 or 75w90 full synth LS should cover all components OK and reduce drag losses?

Do Synthetics help with gear whine also, or best to try an additive for that?


Brand availability will vary here as we have a number of local producers that make good products (Penrite, Nulon, Gulf Western etc) though stuff like Castrol is still available.

Thanks
Dan

Here the truck/camper smile


Capture.JPG
Last edited by Spoonydan; 09/06/19 04:19 AM. Reason: censored for saying [censored] Truck haha
Re: 85-140w - Power Loss in light Japanese truck [Re: Spoonydan] #5205943 09/06/19 06:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,419
A
aquariuscsm Offline
Offline
A
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,419
Definitely go back to the oem spec W90. I tried a W140 in my 300ZX one time and it caused noticeable drag.


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Quaker State Advanced Durability 10W30

Re: 85-140w - Power Loss in light Japanese truck [Re: Spoonydan] #5205962 09/06/19 07:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,737
Z
zeng Offline
Offline
Z
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,737
welcome
SAE 90 of the era then would have been in the upper range of between ISO 150 (KV40 of 150 cSt) and ISO 220 (KV40 of 220 cSt) grades .

Depending on brands, a typical 80W90 in Australia would likely come with a KV40 of 135 - 155 cSt which falls on the lower end of spec'ed SAE 90, if not considered out-of-range.

Unfortunately, the drivetrain whine as described demonstrates this viscosity grade is inadequate.

The 85W140 you had ,depending on actual brand, may have KV40 ranging from 250 cSt to say, 360 cSt . Do check what is the actual data sheet KV40 of gear oil in use that gives you a feeling of 'power loss' and pick another gear oil closer to ISO 220.

A typical 75W85 would carry a KV40 ranging from 60 cSt to 70 cSt and IMHO ,is a big no-no in your application.

So is the case with a 75W90 that typically carries a KV40 of 90 -105 cSt.

A 75W140 of typical KV40 of 170 - 175 cSt may be considered, however its shear stability is poor.

I would personally prefer a hard-to-find monograde SAE 110 (KV40 220 cSt) to a common monograde SAE 90 (of KV40 approaching 200 cSt) as both are shear stable.


Last edited by zeng; 09/06/19 07:08 AM.
Re: 85-140w - Power Loss in light Japanese truck [Re: Spoonydan] #5206029 09/06/19 08:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,973
M
mattwithcats Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,973
Take a look at Final Drive 50...

50 weight SAE, 90 weight gear oil...

Lots of makers, usually full synthetic...

https://www.mobil.com/English-US/Co...GLXXMobil-Delvac-1-Transmission-Fluid-50


2009 Smart Pure
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40, Wix XP 51356 filter, 45 mpg...
185/55R15 General HP tires, "H" speed rated, 44 psi (300 kpa)
Re: 85-140w - Power Loss in light Japanese truck [Re: zeng] #5206069 09/06/19 09:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
S
Spoonydan Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
Cheers for the responses.

aquariuscsm , yeah I will be, it needs ever last baby horse it has haha smile

zeng, the info and detail is great, thanks. I did a bit of a digging on the fluids used so far + other options


Diffs/Transfer:
Nulon 85w140ls Dino with a KV 40 value of 380 , which is beyond even your estimates
(previous Penrite 80w90ls Dino KV40 of 152)

A huge difference, probably explains the power loss.

Gearbox:
Penrite 75w90 SemiSythn with a KV40 of 99



So If I understand you post correctly all the fluids I have in are not really suitable.
Starting at the gearbox, SAE90 is spec'd for warm climates so current fluid (KV40 of 99) falls short?

Researching some products Gulf Western (local producer) seem to offer the best solutions.

They have the following products.

80w90LS Full Synth with a KV of 185
http://www.gulfwestern.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Ultra-Clear-Limited-Slip-80W-90-30059.pdf

This seems suitable for the diffs and transfer, would it also be suitable for the gearbox too or would shifting be effected?
I've read that friction modified fluids can cause premature syncro wear and a GL4 is better for gear boxes?

Their GL4 Gearbox full synths are
75w85 with KV69
http://www.gulfwestern.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Ultra-Clear-Gear-Oil%C2%AE-75W-85-60050.pdf
or
75w90 with kv100
http://www.gulfwestern.com.au/wp-co...-Clear-Gear-Oil-Low-Vis-75W-90-30056.pdf


They also have a straight 90
LS90 Full Synth KV of 200
http://www.gulfwestern.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Diff-Oil-LS-90-30053.pdf


Thanks again.

Re: 85-140w - Power Loss in light Japanese truck [Re: Spoonydan] #5206071 09/06/19 09:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,181
AZjeff Offline
Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,181
No help here but more pics and specs of your camper are mandatory. Too cool!

And welcome!


86 Samurai 1.3 leftovers
14 RAV4 2.5 5W-20 PP
18 Nissan Titan 5.6 DI, QSUD

The most important thing to do in your life is to not interfere with someone else's life. - Frank Zappa

Re: 85-140w - Power Loss in light Japanese truck [Re: Spoonydan] #5206102 09/06/19 09:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,737
Z
zeng Offline
Offline
Z
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,737
Quote
I've isolated the diff (driveshafts out, centre handbrake to load gearbox/transfer) and it's not causing the whine. I've also pulled the inspection cover off the transfer and it looks really good inside with no play anywhere so it's likely from the gear box.

Pardon my English, you're sure the whine is from the manual transmission gear box (which used 75W90) and not from Differential (which used 80W90 previously)?

Last edited by zeng; 09/06/19 09:52 AM.
Re: 85-140w - Power Loss in light Japanese truck [Re: Spoonydan] #5206106 09/06/19 09:55 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 582
S
Sam_Julier Offline
Offline
S
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 582
I'm glad you posted this.

I just had the differential rebuilt in the 1993 240 wagon. (Dana 30) The shop filled it with dino Phillips 66 85W-140. Volvo spec's 80W-90 GL-5.

I am noticing a loss in power. The diff is also considerably quieter. How much of this is from the rebuild and/or the heavier fluid is hard to say.

I'm considering going to 50/50 mix 80W90/85W145 to see if I notice a difference. And then 80W90.

Sam


2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid PPHM 0W20, 70k
1993 Volvo 245 T5 10W30, 157k
1993 Volvo 244 T5 10W30, 169k

Re: 85-140w - Power Loss in light Japanese truck [Re: Spoonydan] #5206108 09/06/19 09:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,207
U
umungus1122 Offline
Offline
U
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,207
No difference I can discern between 90 and 140 gear oils in the vehicles I've owned over the years. shrug


'95 Chevy 1/2t 305 208k -NexGen Maxlife 5w-30, Wix filter
'04 Crown Vic 95k
Re: 85-140w - Power Loss in light Japanese truck [Re: umungus1122] #5206112 09/06/19 10:04 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 582
S
Sam_Julier Offline
Offline
S
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 582
Originally Posted by umungus1122
No difference I can discern between 90 and 140 gear oils in the vehicles I've owned over the years. shrug


I wish I could say the same thing. I'm not sure what to make of it.


2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid PPHM 0W20, 70k
1993 Volvo 245 T5 10W30, 157k
1993 Volvo 244 T5 10W30, 169k

Re: 85-140w - Power Loss in light Japanese truck [Re: Spoonydan] #5206244 09/06/19 12:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,070
M
meep Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,070
I have noticed very minor differences in past vehicles, though thinking back, all were manuals. In automatics I've never been able to tell. IDK if I could tell at the throttle or hillclimbs, but noise would be less and the driveline might feel like it had less sloppiness in it... tighter... less backlash.


2018 F150
2015 crv (wifey!)
Re: 85-140w - Power Loss in light Japanese truck [Re: Spoonydan] #5206253 09/06/19 12:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,889
N
nthach Offline
Offline
N
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,889
That Canter looks awesome, in America these are seen more as a box truck. Why does Oz and Japan have all the cool stuff?

To me, a 75W-90 synthetic gear oil is the way to go in Japanese diffs and they need nothing more than that. If you plan on going out beyond the city limits, maybe 75W-140 that's used in Fords might be a better pick.

Re: 85-140w - Power Loss in light Japanese truck [Re: Spoonydan] #5206317 09/06/19 01:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,901
B
benjy Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,901
going from OE 75-140 semi syn to 75-90 redline real synthetic in the rear of my 2011 Frontier SV 4WD + the rest of the drivetrain lubes to redline real synthtic netted me about 3MPG!!

Re: 85-140w - Power Loss in light Japanese truck [Re: Spoonydan] #5206455 09/06/19 04:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
S
Spoonydan Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5
Interesting insights, it certainly seems I'm not alone in noticing an overly thick gear oil. Probably more pronounced in what is a quite a large diff (more fluid/bigger gears) combined with a heavy vehicle and very little power.

For those interested in the Truck, it was built as a camper back in 1991 and has lived it's life travelling Aus. The camper body is full moulded fibreglass. I bought it for the platform and and have working on it the past year for the aim to rent the house and travel Australia for a couple of years with my dog.

A bunch of spam pics for those interested smile

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Last edited by Spoonydan; 09/06/19 05:00 PM.
Re: 85-140w - Power Loss in light Japanese truck [Re: Spoonydan] #5206629 09/06/19 08:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,181
AZjeff Offline
Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,181
The truck is amazing, it looks like it has been well kept and there are some obvious recent additions, the lights obviously. What's the purpose of the screens in front of the windshield? What kind of range do you have on a full tank?

Now about your dog, what is he? We have an 8 year old blue ACD male and a 1 year old red supposedly ACD female. The male is classic cattledog but the female has been a bit of mystery as she sure doesn't look like him but she sure looks like your dog. Her ears are oversize and never stood up but she looks like your guy, same short coat and she even does the same sit up thing completely on her own. Sorry for the side track, awesome truck and dog you've got.
[Linked Image]


86 Samurai 1.3 leftovers
14 RAV4 2.5 5W-20 PP
18 Nissan Titan 5.6 DI, QSUD

The most important thing to do in your life is to not interfere with someone else's life. - Frank Zappa

Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™