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Mobil 1 0w40 - 2016 F150 5.0 Supercharged - 5,250 miles #5204651 09/04/19 04:48 PM
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pzev Offline OP
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Hello,

Today we have another UOA from my 2016 Ford F150 with the 5.0 Coyote V8. This vehicle has a Roush supercharger, which has been modified with an upgraded fuel system (pump/injectors) and several other go fast goodies. This vehicle is a work in progress, and as such the parts list that is on the truck now is not necessarily what was on the truck during prior OCI's.
Iron is down and lead is much higher, and I'm thinking fuel dilution is the cause for several reasons...mainly the new tune and lower temperature thermostat.

During this run I used Mobil 1 0w40, which has been in use since about April of this year. During this OCI, the truck was tuned by yet another 3rd party tuning company, and the cooling system was modified with a lower temperature thermostat. I also suffered a tuning device failure which resulted in the truck to be temporarily idled with the factory tune and my 1000cc injectors which made it run pig rich. However that was months ago, and it has been running fine since then.
Lastly I've used numerous bottles of octane booster during this OCI, as part of a long term study I'm doing on my truck forum regarding spark advance on supercharged Coyotes with pump vs high octane fuel.

Lastly I also used some Liqui-Moly MOS2 during this OCI, about 4 ounces, to finish off a half bottle I had laying around. I've stopped using this product for the next OCI.
I'm not going to make any changes until I run another UOA to track the fuel dilution and lead. If it happens again I'll make some changes to the tune and possibly up the thermostat temperature.
[Linked Image]

Last edited by pzev; 09/04/19 04:51 PM.

2016 Ford F150 5.0 w/ Roush Supercharger
2012 Ford Mustang 5.0 (soon to be sold)
Re: Mobil 1 0w40 - F150 5.0 Supercharged - 5,250 miles [Re: pzev] #5204659 09/04/19 04:54 PM
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addyguy Offline
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Engine 'should' have Al bearings...maybe lead is from one of the octane boosters as a cushioning agent?

You beat up the M1 pretty badly, but that's to be expected.


2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 146k miles.
Castrol GTX HM 5W-30, STP blue bottle; Fram TG 9688.

2009 Pontiac G5 - 2.2 I-4, auto, 121k miles.
Oil/filter TBD
Re: Mobil 1 0w40 - F150 5.0 Supercharged - 5,250 miles [Re: pzev] #5204666 09/04/19 05:05 PM
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Onetor Offline
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Pb isn't that high....I would not worry unless it is in the triple digits. UOA can only examine a certain particle range...


N = R* x fp x ne x fl x fi x fc x L
Re: Mobil 1 0w40 - F150 5.0 Supercharged - 5,250 miles [Re: Onetor] #5204667 09/04/19 05:13 PM
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pzev Offline OP
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Originally Posted by addyguy
Engine 'should' have Al bearings...maybe lead is from one of the octane boosters as a cushioning agent?

You beat up the M1 pretty badly, but that's to be expected.

Originally Posted by Onetor
Pb isn't that high....I would not worry unless it is in the triple digits. UOA can only examine a certain particle range...


Thank you both for the fast responses and insight! This engine is factory sealed, so the stock bearings are present, so if they do not contain any lead that actually makes me feel better.
I'll have to check the MSDS of the various octane boosters I've used during this OCI to see if any contain lead. Most of these products have been over the counter, for use in the spark vs octane long term study I'm conducting on the truck. However I did use some Boostane Premium during this OCI and it is possible that product contains lead.

Last edited by pzev; 09/04/19 05:16 PM.

2016 Ford F150 5.0 w/ Roush Supercharger
2012 Ford Mustang 5.0 (soon to be sold)
Re: Mobil 1 0w40 - F150 5.0 Supercharged - 5,250 miles [Re: pzev] #5204670 09/04/19 05:21 PM
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ad244 Offline
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Lead has got to be from all the octane boosters

Re: Mobil 1 0w40 - F150 5.0 Supercharged - 5,250 miles [Re: ad244] #5204674 09/04/19 05:25 PM
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jbutch Offline
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Originally Posted by ad244
Lead has got to be from all the octane boosters



So is the mangenese as well


2015 Forester XT @ 92000km
Current fill: Mobil ESP Formula 5w-30 with Fram Ultra XG7317
Re: Mobil 1 0w40 - F150 5.0 Supercharged - 5,250 miles [Re: pzev] #5204682 09/04/19 05:32 PM
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pzev Offline OP
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I forgot to mention the prior OCI's listed were with Amsoil SS 5w30. I made the switch to 0w40 out of concerns I was putting too much squeeze on a 30wt oil with 700hp.


2016 Ford F150 5.0 w/ Roush Supercharger
2012 Ford Mustang 5.0 (soon to be sold)
Re: Mobil 1 0w40 - F150 5.0 Supercharged - 5,250 miles [Re: pzev] #5204715 09/04/19 06:06 PM
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CT8 Offline
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Try a 5W or 10w 40 The wear seems to be minimal and you have an engine that matches the 3.5 eco boost fuel dilution. hide


2015 F150 2.7
2018 F350 6.2
Re: Mobil 1 0w40 - F150 5.0 Supercharged - 5,250 miles [Re: pzev] #5204744 09/04/19 06:43 PM
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A_Harman Offline
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Try using Polaris Labs for the UOA. Blackstone never seems to detect fuel dilution. The low viscosity and flash point indicate more fuel than they're saying. And go to something like Amsoil AMO or Z-Rod. M1 0w40 is barely a 40, even without the fuel dilution.

What is your method for studying spark advance on a supercharged Coyote running pump gas?

Last edited by A_Harman; 09/04/19 06:45 PM.

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Re: Mobil 1 0w40 - F150 5.0 Supercharged - 5,250 miles [Re: pzev] #5204783 09/04/19 07:47 PM
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I would be tempted to try a 10w-30 or 15w-30 HDEO to reduce viscosity spread. Your in Texas and I wouldn't think you need the 0w cold properties anyway.

What filter did you run?


1999 Jeep Cherokee sport 4.0L
2015 Jeep Cherokee 3.2
2015 Ford F150 5.0
Re: Mobil 1 0w40 - F150 5.0 Supercharged - 5,250 miles [Re: Buzzinhalfdozen] #5204856 09/04/19 09:24 PM
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Rand Offline
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Originally Posted by Buzzinhalfdozen
I would be tempted to try a 10w-30 or 15w-30 HDEO to reduce viscosity spread. Your in Texas and I wouldn't think you need the 0w cold properties anyway.

What filter did you run?


30wt in a supercharged 700hp engine with high fuel dilution.. uh no...


As mentioned blackstone uses some sort of inference not a direct test for fuel dilution and their number always seems to be much lower than actual.


2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk 2.0T
Re: Mobil 1 0w40 - F150 5.0 Supercharged - 5,250 miles [Re: Buzzinhalfdozen] #5204867 09/04/19 09:33 PM
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pzev Offline OP
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Originally Posted by CT8
Try a 5W or 10w 40 The wear seems to be minimal and you have an engine that matches the 3.5 eco boost fuel dilution. hide


Yes, the data logs don't show this tune running rich, but something is definitely different as compared to the last UOA's. I'll be tracking fuel dilution through this interval and might up the oil viscosity if it continues to trend. But as you said, the wear isn't bad at all.

Originally Posted by A_Harman
Try using Polaris Labs for the UOA. Blackstone never seems to detect fuel dilution. The low viscosity and flash point indicate more fuel than they're saying. And go to something like Amsoil AMO or Z-Rod. M1 0w40 is barely a 40, even without the fuel dilution.

What is your method for studying spark advance on a supercharged Coyote running pump gas?


I have not been happy with the sample turn around time at Blackstone, so maybe it is time to switch.

I'm always monitoring the truck using either an SCT tuning device or a laptop, and I grab data logs of spark advance and detected knock when comparing different fuels. My truck runs a lot of timing on the street tune, and a whole lot more in the race tune, so detecting differences in fuel quality is just a matter of comparing spark and knock if all else is consistent. For the study itself, I use a defined route and record 3 data logs of acceleration runs locked in 3rd gear from 2500rpm to 7000rpm. At the end of the route I add the octane booster to the prescribed mixing ratio, allow it to mix, and travel back on the same route recording 3 more data logs. I then graph the spark and knock curves and compare them, and there is usually drastic differences from pure 93 octane pump to the treated fuel.
That seems obvious, but often times I wonder if the over the counter products actually work as advertised, which is what prompted my adhoc study. For the professional strength products like Torco and Boostane, I plan on just comparing data logs of actual drag strip runs when the weather cools down.

You can read my ongoing thread here

Originally Posted by Buzzinhalfdozen
I would be tempted to try a 10w-30 or 15w-30 HDEO to reduce viscosity spread. Your in Texas and I wouldn't think you need the 0w cold properties anyway.

What filter did you run?


I use a Fram Ultra.
The Amsoil SS 5w30 I had been running seemed to hold up well, however the truck is in a different state of tune with a few different parts then it was when I was running the amsoil and it seems fuel dilution is more of a problem now. I chose the 0w40 Mobil 1 because it is a "light" 40wt oil with an HTHS around 3.5, and I was concerned my cooler thermostat would lower the overall oil temperatures which effectively raises the viscosity. Basically, I wanted an oil that was just thick enough for protection without robbing power or economy.

Last edited by pzev; 09/04/19 09:35 PM.

2016 Ford F150 5.0 w/ Roush Supercharger
2012 Ford Mustang 5.0 (soon to be sold)
Re: Mobil 1 0w40 - F150 5.0 Supercharged - 5,250 miles [Re: A_Harman] #5205319 09/05/19 12:01 PM
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sunruh Offline
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Originally Posted by A_Harman
Try using Polaris Labs for the UOA. Blackstone never seems to detect fuel dilution. The low viscosity and flash point indicate more fuel than they're saying.


correct

out of those almost 90 uoa's ive done...i have 8 that have a FLASH under 385.
all of those show at least 1.0% fuel
a flash of 365 is way more than 0.5%

the susvis of 62.x is right in the middle of 30wt.

now that i look at all my data to help verify this flash/fuel issue, i'd be willing to bet that the stoners report 0.5% for
anything between 0.50 and 0.99%...and your sample is probably more like 0.9x%
all of my uoa's show 0, TR, 0.5, 1.0, 1.5 .... just .5 increments. really, never 1.27??? thus more fuel (hahahah) for
the fire on how they report.

steve


motorcycle oil myth buster
Re: Mobil 1 0w40 - F150 5.0 Supercharged - 5,250 miles [Re: pzev] #5206001 09/06/19 08:01 AM
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Doublehaul Offline
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I got high led always from octane boosters in my supercharged 302. Looks the M1 did exactly what you wanted...I’d keep using it. 3.6 hths...plenty of protection


2019 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 TRD
2019 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 TRD*

Mobil 1 0w40


The specs on the back are more important than the label on the front
Re: Mobil 1 0w40 - F150 5.0 Supercharged - 5,250 miles [Re: pzev] #5207347 09/07/19 08:52 PM
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rrounds Offline
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Originally Posted by pzev
....chose the 0w40 Mobil 1 because it is a "light" 40wt oil with an HTHS around 3.5, and I was concerned my cooler thermostat would lower the overall oil temperatures which effectively raises the viscosity. Basically, I wanted an oil that was just thick enough for protection without robbing power or economy.

You don't drive a 700 hp 5.0L for the economy. LOL You have around 140 hp per L all on stock bearings, I'd run 2/3's M1 0/40 and 1/3 M1 0/50 racing oil. The oil will still be a 40w with a lot better anti-wear add pack with more molly and zddp.

Rod


Last edited by rrounds; 09/07/19 08:54 PM.

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