Why have mobile payments not taken off in the US

[Rand]

Originally Posted by Pelican
So what's the advantage of using mobile or debit where the money comes off immediately vs credit cards that give you 21 days interest free payment?
From where I stand the only reasons are maxed-out credit cards or poor money management. I can't see any other reason, but perhaps there is another one that escapes me.

you dont understand how it works.

mobile is using your credit card or debit card etc.
you just link in the accounts.(the accounts have to support it)

below is a screenshot from google pay on my phone.

using my chase freedom unlimited card.

Other "mobile wallets" also offer deals (samsung pay esp.)
example buying gift cards 20% off etc.

 

[Alfred_B]

Originally Posted by Pelican
So what's the advantage of using mobile or debit where the money comes off immediately vs credit cards that give you 21 days interest free payment?
From where I stand the only reasons are maxed-out credit cards or poor money management. I can't see any other reason, but perhaps there is another one that escapes me.

You carry one device instead of a phone plus wallet. Everything is done with the phone, including a driver's license.

Of course, it can be a slight problem if you use the phone as you will have to recover all the data from the backup on the cloud. But far easier than canceling all your cards, etc.

 

[spasm3]

I just use my phone as a phone, maybe i'll check prices in store vs online. But for the most part i only make calls with it. Screen is harder to see, small, i prefer a computer screen.

 

[4WD]

My company has a large cyber security department - some of them ex FBI and some are cyber security software geeks from those kind of companies -
On business trips - we are required to use cards with chips. Period.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Interesting article from CNBC.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/29/why-mobile-payments-have-barely-caught-on-in-the-us.html


Personally, I use Apple Pay whenever I can. It's quicker and more secure than a debit card. I only use cash for tips.




2% cash-back with Apple Pay and Apple Card. I use this where it's accepted and one of my other three cards doesn't offer better rewards

Amex for gas and groceries (6/3% cash back)

Chase Amazon for Amazon purchases only, unless they offer a promotion

WF Cash Wise card for 1.5% cash-back for everything else.

//

With that said, I don't have any RFID cards

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
I worry about scammers using some unknown backdoor via the NFC transmitter. I really like the new credit cards with an embedded chip.


"new" you guys are always last to do the techy stuff.

Canada has had these ten years and Europe about fifteen.

Exactly what I thought when I read that - embedded-chip cards are not "new" at all.

 

[Omahaug]

Originally Posted by Jetsfan421
Cash is king. Those debit cards make it too easy to spend carelessly. With cash you can physically see the money. And credit cards are about the worst thing ever invented. They are too easy to get and the interest is outrageous. Have fun with that 1.5% cash back when you gotta pay 30% interest on your purchase.

None of these complaints actually give an advantage to cash. These are all personal issues with people who are too stupid to understand a budget and too stupid to understand the difference between spending money of your own and borrowing.

Credit cards are not the worst thing ever invented, not even close. They're far better than cash because:
1. You can spend money you physically don't have but know you are guaranteed to receive later. There is no other way to get out of jams without this.
2. Cash can be stolen or lost, you're out of luck. If your card is lost or stolen you can lock it and any charges aren't your responsibility because they're charges/borrowing as opposed to spending owned money.
3. Most credit cards offer 0% fraud liability, extended warranties and return policies. I've literally used these and they're hassle free. Cash isn't giving you any of this.
4. Credit cards offer incentives and cash back bonuses.

Anyone who carries a large enough balance to be subject to crippling interest is either doing it intentionally at best (because they have no choice) or moronic at worst. I pay off my statement balance in full every single billing period. I have never paid a penny in interest, yet I receive all of the benefits above. I've literally cashed out on hundreds of dollars of cash back dollars as well.

 

[Pelican]

Originally Posted by Rand
Originally Posted by Pelican
So what's the advantage of using mobile or debit where the money comes off immediately vs credit cards that give you 21 days interest free payment?
From where I stand the only reasons are maxed-out credit cards or poor money management. I can't see any other reason, but perhaps there is another one that escapes me.

you dont understand how it works.
mobile is using your credit card or debit card etc.
you just link in the accounts.(the accounts have to support it)
below is a screenshot from google pay on my phone.
using my chase freedom unlimited card.
Other "mobile wallets" also offer deals (samsung pay esp.)
example buying gift cards 20% off etc.


Again what's the difference between whipping out a phone or a credit card? Is it done just because one can? What's the advantage?

 

[PimTac]

In the case of Apple Pay and others the app tokenizes the card number so the actual number is not revealed. In addition, the transaction must be verified by fingerprint or facial recognition.

So you can whip out your card at the cafe where the sneaky waitress copies your number for later use or you can use a mobile pay and control the entire process with better security.

 

[earlyre]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
I worry about scammers using some unknown backdoor via the NFC transmitter. I really like the new credit cards with an embedded chip.


"new" you guys are always last to do the techy stuff.

Canada has had these ten years and Europe about fifteen.

Exactly what I thought when I read that - embedded-chip cards are not "new" at all.


yeah, but US banks didn't implement them properly.
they don't require a pin for credit transactions, only for debit, just like the old mag stripe cards.

my understanding is overseas, and Canada, you put in the chip, and punch in your pin. it's a 2 factor identification... without the pin, it doesn't work.

apparently, you can't ask Americans to remember another pin number.

on to the topic of mobile payments...

I use google pay for almost everything.
when I go places that don't take it, i find myself huffing like an entitled teenager.

My buddy and I took a trip to Ft.Sill a couple summers back, when his brother graduated basic. we stop at a random Walmart in the middle of Missouri, that's the first I noticed they don't take most mobile payment platforms, I actually turned to my friend, and said " Ughh.. I have to physically take my card out of my wallet? what is this the 90's?"...
I hated myself for saying it... but it was legit how i felt... i already had my phone out in my hand, it's a convenience thing...definitely a first world problem.

I immediately flashed on that scene in back to the future 2, where Marty, in 2015, shows the kids how to work the arcade machine in cafe '80s.." you have to use your hands? that's like a babies toy.."

 

[BigD1]

Personally, I am not joining the phone walking zombie crowd. My chipped debit card works just fine.

 

[Tomioka]

I wish I could move away from carrying credit/debit cards if more merchants or even gas pumps started supporting mobile pay. After having my stuff stolen by crackheads and running my debit card for almost $600 of stuff I'd rather keep the cards at home and use my phone. Using FaceID on iPhone gives it that extra layer of security so even if my phone gets stolen they can't use it for purchases.

 

[PandaBear]

Mobile payment is sort of either debit or credit, and most importantly non cash payment.

The question is why in the US do we use mostly Visa / MC / AMEX for NFC payment instead of paypal / alipay / zelle / octopus / etc.

It has to do with our consumers and financial system. People here on average have a few thousand dollars of credit card debt, and the interest is what the lenders make money on, and the merchants don't charge extra for credit card processing, so the credit card companies offer cash back and the merchants pay the 3% or so transaction cost, everyone is happy.

In China the merchants charge the transaction fee to the consumers, so most consumers would rather not use credit cards. The banks are all government sponsored and they earn a huge interest spread between deposit and lending to sponsor a lot of the infrastructure loans, while civilian companies have to borrow at a high cost. Alipay is a way to get around this banking loophole, as Alibaba is big enough to sponsor a lot of online payment / store payment cost and discounts (they are very frequent from what I heard, almost like monthly free meal of different restaurants on rotation), and by doing that they are able to get very cheap loans from the entire nation to fund its operation in everything from online stores to cloud computing. The same goes for Octopus in Hong Kong, it started as a "clipper" card like transportation pass, but it is now used for store payments and as a security badge too.

The underlying NFC technologies are there, it is all about the financial side.

 

[Fawteen]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by Jetsfan421
Cash is king. Those debit cards make it too easy to spend carelessly. With cash you can physically see the money. And credit cards are about the worst thing ever invented. They are too easy to get and the interest is outrageous. Have fun with that 1.5% cash back when you gotta pay 30% interest on your purchase.


Cash sucks. Lose it on accident? SOL. Get robbed? SOL. I'll enjoy my 1-2% cash back and no interest because it's paid in full every month. The Apple Card also makes it incredibly easy what you're spending money on.


Wouldn't the same thing apply if you lose or break your phone? Wouldn't you be "SOL" until you get it all set up again?

Personally I don't even carry a smart phone. Don't have a use for one. I do carry a fair amount of cash, but I've never lost it nor have I ever been robbed. But then I don't go to places like Chicago with it's ultra high rates of violent crimes.

 

[Fawteen]

Originally Posted by BigD1
Personally, I am not joining the phone walking zombie crowd. My chipped debit card works just fine.


Agreed. I also choose not to be one of the sheep following the smart phone herd.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted by Fawteen
... ...
Personally I don't even carry a smart phone. Don't have a use for one. I do carry a fair amount of cash, but I've never lost it nor have I ever been robbed. But then I don't go to places like Chicago with it's ultra high rates of violent crimes.


[off-topic]
Fawteen,
small correction:
Chicago and surrounding 'burbs it is a BIG area. Crime is localized to couple areas with everything else hit-and-run
Also LOTS of tourists. Would they be here if crime everywhere?
Also: there is a Major credit card company that has buildings in a 'burb around Chicago. Would they be here if crime everywhere?

I'm just saying this since I know you didn't get where you are by doing what everybody does...
[/off-topic]

 

[Alfred_B]

Originally Posted by Fawteen
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by Jetsfan421
Cash is king. Those debit cards make it too easy to spend carelessly. With cash you can physically see the money. And credit cards are about the worst thing ever invented. They are too easy to get and the interest is outrageous. Have fun with that 1.5% cash back when you gotta pay 30% interest on your purchase.


Cash sucks. Lose it on accident? SOL. Get robbed? SOL. I'll enjoy my 1-2% cash back and no interest because it's paid in full every month. The Apple Card also makes it incredibly easy what you're spending money on.


Wouldn't the same thing apply if you lose or break your phone? Wouldn't you be "SOL" until you get it all set up again?

Personally I don't even carry a smart phone. Don't have a use for one. I do carry a fair amount of cash, but I've never lost it nor have I ever been robbed. But then I don't go to places like Chicago with it's ultra high rates of violent crimes.

To recover your phone apps is a matter of an hour or so on a new phone. The data is stored on the cloud so it's all there already.

You simply brick the old phone as soon as it's connected to the internet.

 

[supton]

Hmm. I've yet to lose my wallet (well ever since I stopped being a teenager), and I've yet to lose my phone. I've always worried about losing my smartphone, losing or dropping, but so far, it hasn't been an issue. But I'm not sure if I can go mobile pay. I probably could, but the what-if's are right there. I don't have a plan with a carrier, I only use pre-pay (Tracfone at that), so what happens if there is a glitch and my phone quits? Just how much of my life is locked if that happens? I suspect I can swap SIM cards and move on... I think... ?

Personally I don't want to memorize yet another PIN! I can memorize a few, but after a while... it's too much. I already have a cheat sheet for all the passwords that I have, I could do likewise for PIN's, but it kinda defeats the purpose. [And no, I'm not using some password site.]

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
I worry about scammers using some unknown backdoor via the NFC transmitter. I really like the new credit cards with an embedded chip.


"new" you guys are always last to do the techy stuff.

Canada has had these ten years and Europe about fifteen. We don't even need to do anything under $100 anymore, just tap the card and done. No pin, no signing.

Also if you pay cash you are overpaying about 2% on everything.


IIRC it was a matter of cost for the reader. The chipped cards had been out for awhile but the merchants were slow to upgrade their equipment.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by Jetsfan421
Cash is king. Those debit cards make it too easy to spend carelessly. With cash you can physically see the money. And credit cards are about the worst thing ever invented. They are too easy to get and the interest is outrageous. Have fun with that 1.5% cash back when you gotta pay 30% interest on your purchase.


Cash sucks. Lose it on accident? SOL. Get robbed? SOL. I'll enjoy my 1-2% cash back and no interest because it's paid in full every month. The Apple Card also makes it incredibly easy what you're spending money on.



Europe has had negative interest rates on deposits for almost a decade. What are you going to do when that sort of thinking comes home to the good ol' US of A? Cash is about freedom and privacy, just ask the Swiss. They're big cash users.