College costs shocked me...

[Alfred_B]

Originally Posted by Uregina09
I just checked, and tuition for the same MBA is now $36,000. I was told that for Master's degree, particularly in business, people are wary of institutions that don't charge enough because the perceived value of the degree is lower when tuition isn't high enough.

It costs money to attract talent and provide proper infrastructure for good education.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by Ws6

Sounds good, let's just get someone to hold someone at gunpoint and take the money for it, then, yeah?
#TaxationIsTheft

People who live in countries without effective taxation deal with being violently robbed by street thieves, highwaymen, private militias owned by the powerful, corrupt soldiers and police, etc.
I'm pretty happy to live in a stable country and pay my taxes.

 

[xfactor9]

Inflation is caused by too much demand for too few goods and services. In the case of college tuition, the demand came from loose underwriting for student loans. Loose underwriting has always caused excessive inflation (remember 2003-2007 housing?).

How can a 19 year old with no income and no credit history get a $40k loan at 4%? But a 40-year old with 800 FICO and $150k income can only get a $25k personal loan at 13%? That's the dumbest underwriting ever. If the underwriting was correct, the 19 year old would get a $2k loan at 20%. That would put an end to this tuition inflation

 

[kstanf150]

College tuition is a rip off at best
Most students leave high school college prep classes already under their belt
BUT
They spend the first two years taking classes over agin that they have already taken in high school
It's all about the money for the college !!

Most degrees now days could be had in two years and cut expenses way down

 

[greenjp]

A few points:
- The "full price" you see for most schools, especially private schools, is paid by very few people. It's inflated so that they can charge wealthy people and foreigners a huge amount, and at the same time advertise a high percentage of students receiving aid. It's a win-win for the schools.
- The nice dorms, fancy buildings, tenured professors, etc aren't the reason for the high costs - they're the result. The government, in the form of subsidized loans, pumps a ton of money into the higher education system, which increases the demand, which causes the schools to go to greater and greater lengths to attract students and at the same time allows them to increase prices.
- Educational loans are the only ones made without regard to the borrower's ability to repay the loan. This makes no sense at all, and encourages risky borrowing and lending. It's the same thing that caused the housing bubble, being done in the name of fairness or equality.
- The schools themselves have zero skin in the game when it comes to the loans - they get the money and the students are on the hook to pay it back. Doesn't matter if they got a degree that won't support paying it back, or spend 5 years in school without getting a degree. I think (I could be way off here) the Bush or Obama administration tried to put some sort of connection here but am unsure.
- The surefire way to solve this problem is to allow "discrimination" in lending (ie kid coming out of high school with a high GPA going to a good college to study engineering has better access to loans than middling student going to 3rd tier state U to study whatever) and to put the schools on the hook with respect to post-graduation employment. It's all about risks and incentives. Right now they're totally misaligned.
I'm 20 years out (good God

) from my engineering undergrad at a private school. Took the basic Federal loan which at the time left me with $17k in debt. The school wrote off 60% of the tuition and fees, it wasn't even a "scholarship" per se but rather a "need based" grant despite my solidly middle class upbringing. My parents spent about $30k. My wife's situation was similar. It was well worth it, many times over.

jeff

I see xfactor beat me to the punch on the effect of student loans. Great minds think alike

 

[BozoDeClowne]

Yep, son graduated from BU this year, where sticker price is $75K per year. There are loads of foreign students paying that, and virtually no one else. His degree is in Biomedical Engineering, and he secured a full-ride slot in a PhD program at one of the top 4 US universities for that field. By contrast, he has a friend who graduated with the same degree as a certain bartender-turned-Congresswoman, and said friend's job prospects are not good.

We had 2 in at the same time, so that was fun. Both have some debt to deal with, which they will.

 

[mazie]

Technology guy for 41 years at a university. Staff and instructors are not the problem and never have been. That only leaves administration. Two grandsons in college now, we help but nowhere near enough. Of course they could live at home but the whole family laughed, guess they wanted them gone.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by Ws6

Sounds good, let's just get someone to hold someone at gunpoint and take the money for it, then, yeah?
#TaxationIsTheft

People who live in countries without effective taxation deal with being violently robbed by street thieves, highwaymen, private militias owned by the powerful, corrupt soldiers and police, etc.
I'm pretty happy to live in a stable country and pay my taxes.


What countries are those?

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted by Ws6
What countries are those?

That would be Illinois and the Chicago suburbs in particular.

 

[Nick1994]

I graduated with my Bachelor's in Business 3-1/2 months ago from ASU.

I was fortunate enough to qualify for financial aid, and a family friend helped with the costs. I also went to community college for my Associate's. So I owe $0.

For many, student loans are the only way to go. Some of my friends didn't go to college because it's "too expensive" and they didn't want student loans. These were really smart friends too. I tried to tell them that if it costs them $50k in student loans to plant a job that makes $10k a year more than if they didn't go to college, they could pay it off in 5 years.

 

[Mr Nice]

Relevant education / training is necessary for a good job and future.

PhD in Mickey Mouse field will just end up in large debt.

 

[bradepb]

My wife and I struggled and sacrificed to put all three children through college full ride on us. They are all now well employed making good money and debt free.

However number one son just married a psychologist in her doctoral program with almost $80,000 in student debt !!!!

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by JTK
Originally Posted by supton
Sometimes I'm shocked that I muddled through somehow--took the grants when available, but borrowed about half of what it cost, graduated with $20k in debt and about $4k on my credit card. Think I paid it off in 10 years? plus two new cars and the wife's $20k of loans, and had kids during that time too. I guess engineering was a good gamble twenty five years ago. I suspect it still is, but not at today's cost.

I plan to push my kids into community college for at least gen ed credits, although I guess if they get a free ride someplace that'll be ok too. Working on teaching them how to look for the total cost and to plan ahead. And to start working on their career path already.

All I know is, I'm telling them now that I'm not paying--I goofed and bought new cars instead of saving money for them. My fault, I don't blame anyone but me. Coulda shoulda woulda done differently, had I known then what I know now. Maybe.


Supton, I'm very much in the same boat. I lucked out choosing a college in 1989 (Alfred State) and a curriculum that local employers scooped up.

My kids all know college costs are on them. Do they understand the gravity of it? No way. My wife and I have always tried to live within our means and don't do or own anything flashy. We made the choice early on that she be a stay at home mom. My miscalculation is having 4 kids. That in itself is financially crushing.

Yeah, we thought about having a third but our housing situation didn't allow for it, and we really didn't want to get a larger family vehicle, so early on we kinda found ourselves limited to just two kids. I think we're better off that way--for us that is--and it works out pretty good for our family. We live comfortably.

And no I don't think my kids have any concept of money and what school costs. They're still pretty young but I suspect the process is going to be a long one.

 

[LoneRanger]

I went to Purdue University, B.A. in 1986. I specifically remember a semester tuition bill being for $863. Room and board in university housing cost more than tuition.

College expense today is patently insane in most cases.

Our son went to college on the G.I. Bill plus monthly stipend for expenses, by signing up for a six year hitch in the Army National Guard. He drilled local to the college due to m.o.s. chosen to match the local Guard unit. The National Guard helped instill some maturity in him that I think otherwise might not have developed as much had he not been a citizen soldier during those college years.

 

[grampi]

They don't even teach anything worthwhile anymore...all that money just to be indoctrinated? Total waste of money as you come out of college stupider than when you went in...

 

[buster]

I went to Rutgers University in NJ (state school). Ended up coming out with $15k in loans. I graduated in 2000. I went to school not knowing what I wanted to major in. I went because I knew if I didn't have a degree, job opportunities would be harder to come by (it's unfortunate that is the way society is). Unemployment has historically be lower among those with higher education. My career now (banking compliance/investigations) has nothing to do with my degree (economics/minor in biology). I changed my major 5 times while in college. I still don't have a single career I'm passionate about. My job is a job to me. It's a good one and I'm thankful for it, but I don't love it. Many of my friends went to private schools and came out with significant student loan debt. And they chose degrees that were not in high demand - Business Administration and Marketing are a few. Engineering and sciences I feel are always a safe bet. If you're going to a private school and majoring in History, Theater or Psychology.....good luck.

I will tell a kid today to go to community college first and bang out all the liberal arts/electives etc. then transfer to a school that is reasonable for a major you think you want to take up. I feel it's more important where you go for your master's degree than it is undergraduate.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by grampi
They don't even teach anything worthwhile anymore...all that money just to be indoctrinated? Total waste of money as you come out of college stupider than when you went in...

Engineering isn't worthwhile?

 

[talest]

Originally Posted by buster
I went to Rutgers University in NJ (state school). Ended up coming out with $15k in loans. I graduated in 2000. I went to school not knowing what I wanted to major in. I went because I knew if I didn't have a degree, job opportunities would be harder to come by (it's unfortunate that is the way society is). Unemployment has historically be lower among those with higher education. My career now (banking compliance/investigations) has nothing to do with my degree (economics/minor in biology). I changed my major 5 times while in college. I still don't have a single career I'm passionate about. My job is a job to me. It's a good one and I'm thankful for it, but I don't love it. Many of my friends went to private schools and came out with significant student loan debt. And they chose degrees that were not in high demand - Business Administration and Marketing are a few. Engineering and sciences I feel are always a safe bet. If you're going to a private school and majoring in History, Theater or Psychology.....good luck.

I will tell a kid today to go to community college first and bang out all the liberal arts/electives etc. then transfer to a school that is reasonable for a major you think you want to take up. I feel it's more important where you go for your master's degree than it is undergraduate.


My path has been very much similar to yours. I went to a technical college, it was privately owned and I went because my uncle went there. He went on to become a big-shot as a big tech guy at a toothpaste company, late 70s and early 80s when nobody knew what a computer was, and you were amazing if you could do IT work and programming. Not even sure if they called it IT back then but. 1979 ? Degree he had, and he made the big bucks.

I took after him. My other uncles were tradesmen and learned a trade, worked with their hands. The IT uncle is the one that it just wasnt for him. I am like he. Smart. Though, working with my hands is fun.

Fast forward to right now today. I myself never finished college and I have no completed degree beyond being Valedictorian at a state-run high school. I was a bad teen and was placed there by the state. A state known for its cheese, again not relevant, but. No degree, pinballing through life like the young James Belushi.

Now, with all this non-education (I got perfect marks in my studies, I just felt getting a degree was ultimately a waste of time that entombed you in debt, so I pulled the plug on it, apparently it was not as uncommon as I thought and no shame) I now have my foot in the door in a major career, company that is akin to the NFL in terms of prestige and if I apply myself.. could be the career, right here.

Never know what life will bring your way. I'm hoping and praying about it, and I am up late letting an engine cool since I did some late night car repairs and adjustments (timing.) Now I cant sleep. Excited about joining the NFL. It's not the NFL, but, call it that. Why keep it in. It is an awesome sector and I can move as high as I want with time. The pay ain't that bad, either.

As to College? They say a community college is the best route, but I'm just a poor boy nobody loves me, anything involving paying back in the future can get the axe. I just don't see the benefit. Anyone that walks through the door will likely have a college degree, saturation? To thine own self, be true.

Creative Directors.

 

[talest]

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by grampi
They don't even teach anything worthwhile anymore...all that money just to be indoctrinated? Total waste of money as you come out of college stupider than when you went in...

Engineering isn't worthwhile?


Oh, engineering certainly is, and I agree with your response to the poster. I know I was going to pursue an engineering major. Skip Associates, go right to Bachelors. I remember my course, the first thing we learned about were J/K flip-flops. Basically, anyone computer literate knows that what you see is ones and zeros, and they get fired off at the same time and create a race condition to see which value will set the flip-flop...

Well, let me tell you, when we got in the pan and we had to measure voltages and our breadboards all read 2.4V or such, when it was supposed to measure either 0V (0) or 5V (1)... that was the first indication that this was not what I thought it was.

iPhone had not been invented yet
Android had not been invented yet
Motorola flip phones were still in use
1 out of 10 or 20 people had a mobile phone
Facebook hasn't been invented or created yet
Myspace may have been, if anyone used it back then

So. To engineer.. the iPhones have been created already, and there was a big giant tech bubble burst in the stock market that made me think there was no future in engineering.

I think perhaps grampi is talking about other things, such as agendas of the social kind. The generation whatevertheycallit that was born 1989 or later is like a different species. Anyone under the age of 30 I do not think I can talk to outside of work...

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by grampi
They don't even teach anything worthwhile anymore...all that money just to be indoctrinated? Total waste of money as you come out of college stupider than when you went in...


Well, I did go in with a 99th percentile in their standardized testing regarding critical thinking ability, and came out with a 97th percentile score. That said, I still only paid about $15K for an education that resulted in a 6-figure a year career working 3 days a week, so it has its good points, too.