Used oil results

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I have been following these used oil anylists on oil.
It seams like all oils are good unless left in the crankcase too long or you have a fuel/ coolant issue.
Makes me wonder does it really matter what oil we use as long as we change it in a timely manor if we have a fuel/ head casket issue fix the problem.
 
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ding ding ding!!!!! We have a winner!!

If it has a legit API seal, you're golden. You may be changing the 300K vs 500K mile long term viability but who knows.

No one has done a real run engine X in a real car on only QS and another on M1 and another one on Penz and yet another one on AMSoil to see the difference in how long they last to not non-working.

The difference between brands is mostly old wives tails from the 60s,70s and 80s about brand x causing sludge and killing cars. The oil back then was not nearly as good as today. You would not dream of running the old API SF,G,H in a modern car.
 
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Right now I'm running
5w-30 PUP in my Avalamch
5w -30 Mobil 1 in wifes Tahoe
0W-40 in daughters BMW
5w-20 PUP in daughter friends patriot
5w30 valvoline red bottle in friends civic
10w 30 supertech full syn in mower/pressure washer/ generator.
No problems anywhere
 
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I just buy whatever name brand Synthetic is on sale, or has a rebate going on. Right now for the last two oil changes it's been Rotella gas truck (because of the rebate). Prior to that it was Pennzoil Platinum for two oil changes (rebates). So far this year I've been paying around $2.25 a quart (after rebates) for 0w20 synthetic.

I only go 5,000 miles between oil changes, so it's not like I'm looking for Amsoil.
 
Pennzoil Platinum and Quaker State 5w30 have been my normal motor oils due to the Canadian Rebate programs and I used a Motomaster 5w40 this summer but managed to also buy Pennzoil Euro 5w40 with the Canadian rebate. No rebate = No Deal. I currently have about a two year supply. Near the end of the year I usually pick up another couple jugs on rebates.
 
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Using an oil analysis to determine if a "good oil" versus a bad oil is not just a fruitless endeavor, but a misuse of the analysis and the data it provides.
 
Originally Posted by 4WD
Cool, so every decision that Porsche makes is based on Blackstone findings

Your ability to take things out of context is astounding.
Do you genuinely feel this way?
 
No, but I marvel at the love of UOA's here for several reasons: OEM's and lubricant companies have guidelines that thousands follow - and don't spend a dime on UOA's.
Big companies have more sophisticated labs and controlled tests anyway.
Check the guy with the highest number of miles in signature and go look for how many UOA's he posted. Or my guy who did 400k on bulk (per spec) dino and filters and would not know an UOA's if it hit him in the head. A small handful here actually use them to extend OCI's … many it's sport.
Last but not least, some of the most nasty and foolish debates on this website have been over UOA's and a few PPM of whatever.
 
Originally Posted by Chris142
There are a few engines that require specialized oils. MB,BMW,some Toyotas that sludge etc. The rest of them will run a very long time on any API oil.


^^ This ^^

The Porsche IMS shaft bearing issue (it's BIG deal) is due to bad design.... not bad oil.

Also, severe duty usage (trucks that tow heavy loads) require severe usage oil. I had to chunk 8 perfect pistons in the scrap pile because the piston rings were welded into the grooves. I would like to think a good synthetic oil that can handle the heat would have prevented it from happening.
 
Originally Posted by 4WD
No, but I marvel at the love of UOA's here for several reasons: OEM's and lubricant companies have guidelines that thousands follow - and don't spend a dime on UOA's.
Big companies have more sophisticated labs and controlled tests anyway.
Check the guy with the highest number of miles in signature and go look for how many UOA's he posted. Or my guy who did 400k on bulk (per spec) dino and filters and would not know an UOA's if it hit him in the head. A small handful here actually use them to extend OCI's … many it's sport.
Last but not least, some of the most nasty and foolish debates on this website have been over UOA's and a few PPM of whatever.

Right!...‚

Most of my 160k+ has been on old fashioned Supreme 5/30. Sure I've used full syn or a bottle of Lubegard from time to time when I can get a deal on it...but easily 2/3 of the miles have been on vanilla dino/blends. The things I do religiously are maintain the cooling system per mfgs spec, change the ATF per mfg spec and change the oil on time with a new filter each time and I don't do extended drains. 5k max..so far so good....
 
For anything that requires maintenance, there are three types of PM:
- Preventative maintenance
- Predictive maintenance
- Panic maintenance

Preventative maintenance is what a typical vehicle is set to and serviced by. I don't care if it's a car, truck, motorcycle, tractor, generator, etc ... They all come with a recommended service schedule and list of qualified products to use. These schedules are typically very conservative for two reasons:
1- frequent service can delay/deter problems to a point outside warranty coverage; it can mask issues that are small upon onset that would go unnoticed because the evidence is being discarded with frequent servicing
2- the OEM does not pay for the service, so the cost of frequent service means nothing to the OEM
Preventative maintenance is not based on actual data from equipment health studies, etc; it's a guesstimate by the OEM set to cover worse case scenarios. The upside to this type of PM is that if you follow it and you don't have any issues with the equipment, it will has a propensity to tends towards a long life-cycle of the equipment. It's not cheap to do this, but it's easy to follow and effective. It's not efficient in terms of time/money, but it's effective. Efficiency and effectiveness are two separate topics.

Predictive maintenance is not often practiced. It's harder to do in terms of time investment and knowledge base. You have to be willing to spend some money and time along the way, to get the right info into your hands for making practical, pragmatic decisions. This type of PM can encompass UOAs, thermal analysis, vibration analysis, PCs, noise analysis, etc. Knowing how your equipment runs, and how other similar equipment runs, relative to the exposure and environments they operate in, gives you a very clear understanding of when to service something. UOAs can predict reasonable OFCIs. Vibe analysis can predict bearing failures. Thermal imagines can predict both mechanical and electrical stresses, Etc etc etc. This allows you to track the health of the equipment and make predictable decisions not only about service for the maintenance tasks (oil changes, filter changes, grease schedules) but also when failure would be at increased risk (escalating degradation of the components such as bearings, motors, shafts, etc). PM is not for the uneducated or thin wallet, but in the long term, it can save time and money because you are not wasting money on Preventative changes where good parts or good lubes are tossed out. Predictive maintenance, when practiced correctly, is both efficient AND effective.

Panic maintenance is just that; something breaks because you ignored it. Equipment downtime is now biting your posterior. This is neither effective nor efficient in the long run.

Most people practice a combination of Preventative and Panic. For their cars, they will follow the engine oil changes nearly religiously, but then ignore things like diff fluid changes or wheel bearings, until the item fails. It's oddly perplexing to me; I've talked with people that emphatically use syn lubes every 5k miles in the engine, but have NEVER changed coolant or diff oil. They won't change an engine belt until it fails. They won't change wheel bearings until they fail. A true dichotomy of efforts.

In reference to the OPs point, there are many lubes that do a fine job. The selection of lube can be a smart one (seen within a true predictive program where the lubes are matched to the preferred maintenance paradigm), or a dumb one (selecting a lube in the absence of how/why to use any particular product). Using a conventional oil for greatly extended OCIs is not a smart decision if the OCI is not monitored with UOAs. But that's no more stupid than using a premium syn lube for a "normal" OCI, when all data shows that the extra cost is returning zero wear data differences outside of normal variation.

Using a lube that meets the OEM spec, and following the OEM schedule, does not assure all equipment will last forever. What it does is give a guide to the uneducated masses as how to easily maintain their equipment. It's not cost efficient, but it typically is effective.

UOAs are a tool, just like other predictive tracking tools. PCs, vibe, thermal, etc; they are all tools to track conditions. No tool is perfect, but when used correctly, can be very effective. If you know both the benefits and limitations of the tools, and understand what "normal" behavior is for your equipment, you can make some really great, sound decisions and have a high likelihood of long equipment life. Sadly, this path escapes most BITOGers, because the unwashed masses are too easily influenced by marketing and hype.
 
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Originally Posted by dnewton3
For anything that requires maintenance, there are three types of PM:
- Preventative maintenance
- Predictive maintenance
- Panic maintenance

Preventative maintenance is what a typical vehicle is set to and serviced by. I don't care if it's a car, truck, motorcycle, tractor, generator, etc ... They all come with a recommended service schedule and list of qualified products to use. These schedules are typically very conservative for two reasons:
1- frequent service can delay/deter problems to a point outside warranty coverage; it can mask issues that are small upon onset that would go unnoticed because the evidence is being discarded with frequent servicing
2- the OEM does not pay for the service, so the cost of frequent service means nothing to the OEM
Preventative maintenance is not based on actual data from equipment health studies, etc; it's a guesstimate by the OEM set to cover worse case scenarios. The upside to this type of PM is that if you follow it and you don't have any issues with the equipment, it will has a propensity to tends towards a long life-cycle of the equipment. It's not cheap to do this, but it's easy to follow and effective. It's not efficient in terms of time/money, but it's effective. Efficiency and effectiveness are two separate topics.

Predictive maintenance is not often practiced. It's harder to do in terms of time investment and knowledge base. You have to be willing to spend some money and time along the way, to get the right info into your hands for making practical, pragmatic decisions. This type of PM can encompass UOAs, thermal analysis, vibration analysis, PCs, noise analysis, etc. Knowing how your equipment runs, and how other similar equipment runs, relative to the exposure and environments they operate in, gives you a very clear understanding of when to service something. UOAs can predict reasonable OFCIs. Vibe analysis can predict bearing failures. Thermal imagines can predict both mechanical and electrical stresses, Etc etc etc. This allows you to track the health of the equipment and make predictable decisions not only about service for the maintenance tasks (oil changes, filter changes, grease schedules) but also when failure would be at increased risk (escalating degradation of the components such as bearings, motors, shafts, etc). PM is not for the uneducated or thin wallet, but in the long term, it can save time and money because you are not wasting money on Preventative changes where good parts or good lubes are tossed out. Predictive maintenance, when practiced correctly, is both efficient AND effective.

Panic maintenance is just that; something breaks because you ignored it. Equipment downtime is now biting your posterior. This is neither effective nor efficient in the long run.

Most people practice a combination of Preventative and Panic. For their cars, they will follow the engine oil changes nearly religiously, but then ignore things like diff fluid changes or wheel bearings, until the item fails. It's oddly perplexing to me; I've talked with people that emphatically use syn lubes every 5k miles in the engine, but have NEVER changed coolant or diff oil. They won't change an engine belt until it fails. They won't change wheel bearings until they fail. A true dichotomy of efforts.

In reference to the OPs point, there are many lubes that do a fine job. The selection of lube can be a smart one (seen within a true predictive program where the lubes are matched to the preferred maintenance paradigm), or a dumb one (selecting a lube in the absence of how/why to use any particular product). Using a conventional oil for greatly extended OCIs is not a smart decision if the OCI is not monitored with UOAs. But that's no more stupid than using a premium syn lube for a "normal" OCI, when all data shows that the extra cost is returning zero wear data differences outside of normal variation.

Using a lube that meets the OEM spec, and following the OEM schedule, does not assure all equipment will last forever. What it does is give a guide to the uneducated masses as how to easily maintain their equipment. It's not cost efficient, but it typically is effective.

UOAs are a tool, just like other predictive tracking tools. PCs, vibe, thermal, etc; they are all tools to track conditions. No tool is perfect, but when used correctly, can be very effective. If you know both the benefits and limitations of the tools, and understand what "normal" behavior is for your equipment, you can make some really great, sound decisions and have a high likelihood of long equipment life. Sadly, this path escapes most BITOGers, because the unwashed masses are too easily influenced by marketing and hype.




Well said Dave
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted by tblt44
I have been following these used oil anylists on oil.
It seams like all oils are good unless left in the crankcase too long or you have a fuel/ coolant issue.
Makes me wonder does it really matter what oil we use as long as we change it in a timely manor if we have a fuel/ head casket issue fix the problem.


Yup, doesn't matter what oil you use as long as it meets the API requirements of the engine maker (No different then when you buy gasoline for your vehicle.)
AND you change it at the RECOMMENDED intervals.

Finally - You should never extend oil changes by thinking you are using a better oil, that just means you are believing marketing hype and forum hype. There is no excuse to extend oil changes for any reason, oil is cheap, don't buy an expensive oil and not change it on time because you think it will last longer. Ill back up that statement with this from an engine maker.
My Dodge Durango says synthetic oil maybe used as long as recommended oil change interval is not extended. Again, you would only be extending it because some companies bottle of oil got into your head with its marketing telling you if you buy this one, you don't have to change as often. Its called "salesmanship"
 
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Can anyone provide references to published papers which show the correlation of UOA metals numbers to demonstrated engine wear (such as measured in sequence testing, or similar)?
 
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by tblt44
I have been following these used oil anylists on oil.
It seams like all oils are good unless left in the crankcase too long or you have a fuel/ coolant issue.
Makes me wonder does it really matter what oil we use as long as we change it in a timely manor if we have a fuel/ head casket issue fix the problem.


Yup, doesn't matter what oil you use as long as it meets the API requirements of the engine maker (No different then when you buy gasoline for your vehicle.)
AND you change it at the RECOMMENDED intervals.

Finally - You should never extend oil changes by thinking you are using a better oil, that just means you are believing marketing hype and forum hype. There is no excuse to extend oil changes for any reason, oil is cheap, don't buy an expensive oil and not change it on time because you think it will last longer. Ill back up that statement with this from an engine maker.
My Dodge Durango says synthetic oil maybe used as long as recommended oil change interval is not extended. Again, you would only be extending it because some companies bottle of oil got into your head with its marketing telling you if you buy this one, you don't have to change as often. Its called "salesmanship"



Hmm. All these years on Bitog, after all the data, debates and discussions, it comes down to this. I finally I realize that all API certified oils are exactly the same. Good to know!
 
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