Originally Posted by passgas55
Won't you get better filtration with an older filter than a new one?
No.
Won't you get better filtration with an older filter than a new one?
No.
How many people are running oil filters for multiple intervals?
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Originally Posted by passgas55
Won't you get better filtration with an older filter than a new one?
Not necessarily, it's been discussed many times. It depends on the media filtering performance and its ability to hold captured particles. Oil filters have a much higher delta-p across them compared to air filters, and the delta-p increases with use. A high delta-p can cause captured particles to break loose and go down stream, thereby reducing the filter efficiency.
Won't you get better filtration with an older filter than a new one?
Not necessarily, it's been discussed many times. It depends on the media filtering performance and its ability to hold captured particles. Oil filters have a much higher delta-p across them compared to air filters, and the delta-p increases with use. A high delta-p can cause captured particles to break loose and go down stream, thereby reducing the filter efficiency.
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Originally Posted by passgas55
Won't you get better filtration with an older filter than a new one?
It is possible but perhaps not provable since we are talking a particle size distribution that formed a cake.
A DE pool filter continues to filter well but at the cost of pump pressure load - and can also collapse due to excessive differential pressure across the filter face.
I would also add that doing two 6k runs on a single filter is not the same as a 12k run - new oil half way is what I will do.
Won't you get better filtration with an older filter than a new one?
It is possible but perhaps not provable since we are talking a particle size distribution that formed a cake.
A DE pool filter continues to filter well but at the cost of pump pressure load - and can also collapse due to excessive differential pressure across the filter face.
I would also add that doing two 6k runs on a single filter is not the same as a 12k run - new oil half way is what I will do.
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Originally Posted by BlueOvalFitter
Those of you that run multiple OCI's on the same filter should just drain and strain your oil while you're at it. I mean, if the same filter can be used multiple times, why can't the same oil follow the oil filter use as well? Just think how much you will actually be saving then!
Get an Amsoil filter kit + oil and you can while you drive
Those of you that run multiple OCI's on the same filter should just drain and strain your oil while you're at it. I mean, if the same filter can be used multiple times, why can't the same oil follow the oil filter use as well? Just think how much you will actually be saving then!
Get an Amsoil filter kit + oil and you can while you drive
I plan on doing 2 5k OCIs per filter on my moms 5th gen 4Runner. The 4Runner calls for a 10k mile OCI, but she wants it changed every 5k. The filter is a bit of a pain to change, so I'm gonna dump the oil every 5k and change the filter every other oil change.
Originally Posted by BlakeB
I plan on doing 2 5k OCIs per filter on my moms 5th gen 4Runner. The 4Runner calls for a 10k mile OCI, but she wants it changed every 5k. The filter is a bit of a pain to change, so I'm gonna dump the oil every 5k and change the filter every other oil change.
Is your mom providing the money for the "5K" mile OCI? If so, why not honor her request?
If you're paying for it, then I understand you not being "motivated" to change the filter.
I plan on doing 2 5k OCIs per filter on my moms 5th gen 4Runner. The 4Runner calls for a 10k mile OCI, but she wants it changed every 5k. The filter is a bit of a pain to change, so I'm gonna dump the oil every 5k and change the filter every other oil change.
Is your mom providing the money for the "5K" mile OCI? If so, why not honor her request?
If you're paying for it, then I understand you not being "motivated" to change the filter.
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Originally Posted by BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted by BlakeB
I plan on doing 2 5k OCIs per filter on my moms 5th gen 4Runner. The 4Runner calls for a 10k mile OCI, but she wants it changed every 5k. The filter is a bit of a pain to change, so I'm gonna dump the oil every 5k and change the filter every other oil change.
Is your mom providing the money for the "5K" mile OCI? If so, why not honor her request?
If you're paying for it, then I understand you not being "motivated" to change the filter.
What exactly is the problem … They could run 10k on oil and filter but is putting fresh oil in half way.
That's more conservative than the 10k run …
Originally Posted by BlakeB
I plan on doing 2 5k OCIs per filter on my moms 5th gen 4Runner. The 4Runner calls for a 10k mile OCI, but she wants it changed every 5k. The filter is a bit of a pain to change, so I'm gonna dump the oil every 5k and change the filter every other oil change.
Is your mom providing the money for the "5K" mile OCI? If so, why not honor her request?
If you're paying for it, then I understand you not being "motivated" to change the filter.
What exactly is the problem … They could run 10k on oil and filter but is putting fresh oil in half way.
That's more conservative than the 10k run …
Originally Posted by BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted by BlakeB
I plan on doing 2 5k OCIs per filter on my moms 5th gen 4Runner. The 4Runner calls for a 10k mile OCI, but she wants it changed every 5k. The filter is a bit of a pain to change, so I'm gonna dump the oil every 5k and change the filter every other oil change.
Is your mom providing the money for the "5K" mile OCI? If so, why not honor her request?
If you're paying for it, then I understand you not being "motivated" to change the filter.
I told her what I'm planning to do and why, she's fine with it. She pays for the oil and filters and I don't charge her anything for working on her car. If she wanted the oil filter changed along with the oil every 5,000 miles I would do that, but I specifically asked her and she told me to do whatever I wanted to in that regard. She likes to get her tires rotated every 5k and have her car looked over at the same time. She isn't scared of running synthetic oil to 10k or beyond, she ran the first OCI (break-in oil) to 12k miles (all highway) when it was brand new. She knows the oil and filters can pretty easily go to 10k miles, but she doesn't usually drive that many miles annually and I think she likes knowing that it has fresh oil in it every 6 months or so. I should note that my moms side of the family is from out of state, so she likes having her car ready to go in the event that she should need to make an unplanned trip back home for whatever reason (both of her parents are still living and elderly).
I wouldn't do anything to her car that I wouldn't do to my own and she knows that. Lastly, I wouldn't rip her off for a $5 filter (or anything else for that matter).
Originally Posted by BlakeB
I plan on doing 2 5k OCIs per filter on my moms 5th gen 4Runner. The 4Runner calls for a 10k mile OCI, but she wants it changed every 5k. The filter is a bit of a pain to change, so I'm gonna dump the oil every 5k and change the filter every other oil change.
Is your mom providing the money for the "5K" mile OCI? If so, why not honor her request?
If you're paying for it, then I understand you not being "motivated" to change the filter.
I told her what I'm planning to do and why, she's fine with it. She pays for the oil and filters and I don't charge her anything for working on her car. If she wanted the oil filter changed along with the oil every 5,000 miles I would do that, but I specifically asked her and she told me to do whatever I wanted to in that regard. She likes to get her tires rotated every 5k and have her car looked over at the same time. She isn't scared of running synthetic oil to 10k or beyond, she ran the first OCI (break-in oil) to 12k miles (all highway) when it was brand new. She knows the oil and filters can pretty easily go to 10k miles, but she doesn't usually drive that many miles annually and I think she likes knowing that it has fresh oil in it every 6 months or so. I should note that my moms side of the family is from out of state, so she likes having her car ready to go in the event that she should need to make an unplanned trip back home for whatever reason (both of her parents are still living and elderly).
I wouldn't do anything to her car that I wouldn't do to my own and she knows that. Lastly, I wouldn't rip her off for a $5 filter (or anything else for that matter).
With media it makes a huge difference in the type. There's basically two types of filtration media.
1) Surface filtration, external
2) Density filtration, internal and external
The difference between the two is that density media is thicker, as it filters internally and externally. Paper or cellulose media is mostly surface filtration. Something like foam filters are a density filter.
In the oil filter world, most filters rely on surface filtration. If we use the Fram line up, you've got 2/3 that uses surface media.
Fram PH/CH and TG filters are unless specialised surface media.
Fram XG/FPS are the density type.
The reason a Fram Ultra smacks the PH/CH/TG down for flow resistance is that the filter media gives many paths through itself. I was watching a video where they cut and measured the three filters of exactly the same model, the filtering surface area as measured PH 140in2 v TG 170in2 v XG 70in2.
Fram has said the pressure drop improves going across them, with the XG almost matching the racing filter.
Surface filtering media is like a 2D plane, basically at the surface theres so many paths for the oil to get through.
Density media on the other hand is 3D, the filter isn't just the surface, but the entire cross section/thickness of the media. Also thanks to the numerous paths through the media, you get some that are larger or smaller, so the media can catch some very small things. It also allows for multiple layers of different media, so you can have a coarser media in front of a finer one if you want.
If we flip to air filters for a minute, Briggs has a panel filter that is rated for 50 hours on a lawn mower engine. They also sell or sold a commercial rated panel that was rated for 100 hours. The only difference between the two is that first is a standard paper pleat and the second uses a fiber/cellulose mix that is thicker and fuzzy looking.
After all that beating around the bush and probably using the wrong technical lingo blame instructors during school. My answer is...
It completely depends on the filter media if I run for multiple changes.
If it's thick and fluffy synthetic or blend, then often yes depending on engine and operating conditions.
I've run Wix XP aka Napa Platinum, Fram Ultras and a Fleetguard(IIRC) for multiple changes.
I mostly run FU XGs now and for most of my purposes they see at least two oil changes. It's the most cost effective method for me and mine, while not sacrificing the filtering efficiency.
1) Surface filtration, external
2) Density filtration, internal and external
The difference between the two is that density media is thicker, as it filters internally and externally. Paper or cellulose media is mostly surface filtration. Something like foam filters are a density filter.
In the oil filter world, most filters rely on surface filtration. If we use the Fram line up, you've got 2/3 that uses surface media.
Fram PH/CH and TG filters are unless specialised surface media.
Fram XG/FPS are the density type.
The reason a Fram Ultra smacks the PH/CH/TG down for flow resistance is that the filter media gives many paths through itself. I was watching a video where they cut and measured the three filters of exactly the same model, the filtering surface area as measured PH 140in2 v TG 170in2 v XG 70in2.
Fram has said the pressure drop improves going across them, with the XG almost matching the racing filter.
Surface filtering media is like a 2D plane, basically at the surface theres so many paths for the oil to get through.
Density media on the other hand is 3D, the filter isn't just the surface, but the entire cross section/thickness of the media. Also thanks to the numerous paths through the media, you get some that are larger or smaller, so the media can catch some very small things. It also allows for multiple layers of different media, so you can have a coarser media in front of a finer one if you want.
If we flip to air filters for a minute, Briggs has a panel filter that is rated for 50 hours on a lawn mower engine. They also sell or sold a commercial rated panel that was rated for 100 hours. The only difference between the two is that first is a standard paper pleat and the second uses a fiber/cellulose mix that is thicker and fuzzy looking.
After all that beating around the bush and probably using the wrong technical lingo blame instructors during school. My answer is...
It completely depends on the filter media if I run for multiple changes.
If it's thick and fluffy synthetic or blend, then often yes depending on engine and operating conditions.
I've run Wix XP aka Napa Platinum, Fram Ultras and a Fleetguard(IIRC) for multiple changes.
I mostly run FU XGs now and for most of my purposes they see at least two oil changes. It's the most cost effective method for me and mine, while not sacrificing the filtering efficiency.
Originally Posted by billt460
Oil filters are cheap and easy to change. I can't see the sense of not changing it out with every oil change. Why contaminate a new oil change with dirty oil contained in the old filter? That's like going number 2 and not wiping.
That's how I see it also but to each his own.
Today I installed a Federated PG241F that cost me a whole $2.17 and get this, they're a good oil filter.
Oil filters are cheap and easy to change. I can't see the sense of not changing it out with every oil change. Why contaminate a new oil change with dirty oil contained in the old filter? That's like going number 2 and not wiping.
That's how I see it also but to each his own.
Today I installed a Federated PG241F that cost me a whole $2.17 and get this, they're a good oil filter.
I am coming up to the 4th Oil Change on my XJ with the same Filter, so 20k miles on it. Its the XG8A which is oversized so I am not too worried about it. Just simplifies my oil change.
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Why run multiple intervals unless specified by OEM? Me thinks some people are just cheap & lazy. Cheap and lazy isn't a recipe for prolonging automobile life.. We've also seen numerous filter media failures, It just doesn't make since to not change the filter to save a few dollars, unless its a high mileage filter.
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Originally Posted by Joenpb
Why run multiple intervals unless specified by OEM? Me thinks some people are just cheap & lazy. Cheap and lazy isn't a recipe for prolonging automobile life.. We've also seen numerous filter media failures, It just doesn't make since to not change the filter to save a few dollars, unless its a high mileage filter.
Cheap and lazy ? Based on what ? - you actually know the people you just insulted ? Comments like that are not grounded by reality.
Why run multiple intervals unless specified by OEM? Me thinks some people are just cheap & lazy. Cheap and lazy isn't a recipe for prolonging automobile life.. We've also seen numerous filter media failures, It just doesn't make since to not change the filter to save a few dollars, unless its a high mileage filter.
Cheap and lazy ? Based on what ? - you actually know the people you just insulted ? Comments like that are not grounded by reality.
Based on what I've read here. There was a time when many here advocated running purolator pure one oil filters for multiple oil changes. Of course it wasn't too long before people noticed the media was torn when they did finally replace the filters. We've seen other manufacturers oil filter media tear too. Most that advocated multiple oil changes had no data,to back their claims, Some were indeed cheap and lazy and would rather not change their oil filter. .People are better off sticking to OEM specifications as opposed to advocating what they "think" is best.
Originally Posted by Joenpb
Based on what I've read here. There was a time when many here advocated running purolator pure one oil filters for multiple oil changes. Of course it wasn't too long before people noticed the media was torn when they did finally replace the filters. We've seen other manufacturers oil filter media tear too. Most that advocated multiple oil changes had no data,to back their claims, Some were indeed cheap and lazy and would rather not change their oil filter. .People are better off sticking to OEM specifications as opposed to advocating what they "think" is best.
So...... let me get this straight. I'm cheap and lazy running a Tough Guard filter spec'd for my 10 year old work car a Toyota Camry. I cut and posted it and it was fine. My car is well out of the warranty also
Based on what I've read here. There was a time when many here advocated running purolator pure one oil filters for multiple oil changes. Of course it wasn't too long before people noticed the media was torn when they did finally replace the filters. We've seen other manufacturers oil filter media tear too. Most that advocated multiple oil changes had no data,to back their claims, Some were indeed cheap and lazy and would rather not change their oil filter. .People are better off sticking to OEM specifications as opposed to advocating what they "think" is best.
So...... let me get this straight. I'm cheap and lazy running a Tough Guard filter spec'd for my 10 year old work car a Toyota Camry. I cut and posted it and it was fine. My car is well out of the warranty also
And if someone else follows your advice and finds their filter media torn?
People should use a filter designed for extended intervals, if that is their goal. You can choose whatever you want, it doesn't make it right for everyone.
People should use a filter designed for extended intervals, if that is their goal. You can choose whatever you want, it doesn't make it right for everyone.
What happened to Purolator has nothing to do with multiple OCIs on one filter. 53' Stude would know and took apart enough of those filters on ordinary, short, single OCIs.
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Originally Posted by Joenpb
And if someone else follows your advice and finds their filter media torn?
People should use a filter designed for extended intervals, if that is their goal. You can choose whatever you want, it doesn't make it right for everyone.
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No agenda here - that's you. What I'm running 2X is a Royal Purple 20-500 - nobody has posted a "torn" version of that.
On my other L83 - I have an OEM filter that I will run just one OCI. I cut all my filters.
I also posted a collection of new Pure One and Motorcraft filters that I cut open just to see how weak it was. Tore like printer paper - they are flimsy. Period. I tried the same thing with a new and 10k (5k x 2 runs) Mobil 1 - tough as a boot. The Fram Ultras, M1, Wix XP, and AC Delco, I have cut have always been pristine - but only those made to run long OCI's have seen two runs.
Folks here know what they are doing - and if they don't they can follow along and learn.
And if someone else follows your advice and finds their filter media torn?
People should use a filter designed for extended intervals, if that is their goal. You can choose whatever you want, it doesn't make it right for everyone.
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No agenda here - that's you. What I'm running 2X is a Royal Purple 20-500 - nobody has posted a "torn" version of that.
On my other L83 - I have an OEM filter that I will run just one OCI. I cut all my filters.
I also posted a collection of new Pure One and Motorcraft filters that I cut open just to see how weak it was. Tore like printer paper - they are flimsy. Period. I tried the same thing with a new and 10k (5k x 2 runs) Mobil 1 - tough as a boot. The Fram Ultras, M1, Wix XP, and AC Delco, I have cut have always been pristine - but only those made to run long OCI's have seen two runs.
Folks here know what they are doing - and if they don't they can follow along and learn.
So we agree. I call a spade a spade because there are a lot of people who read these forms that don't have a lot of experience, and some are mislead, I 'd' like to see that type of thing minimized on BIOG. Hence my stance here.
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