Amsoil SS Noack numbers

[SlavaB]

Disclaimer: I'm not an Amsoil fan, user or dealer. I don't want to start an OCI intervals war here, just as a matter of fact I'm sharing some info I think is interesting.

I've tried Amsoil in my Kia in past once, but really felt no difference in engine running so decided to switch back to off the shelf oils.
Yet every once in a while I go and check specs data for different brands and here's what I found yesterday for Amsoil Signature line - Noack 5.8 for 5w20 and 4.1 for 10w30.
This does sound like a lowest Noack numbers I've seen, what do you guys think?

Link https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf

 

[JLTD]

Amsoil typically does have very low NOACK numbers, and are - if not THE lowest - one of the lowest I've seen. That said, I've used other oils at shorter intervals and a NOACK of 8 or 10 did not burn off much oil during an OCI; approximately from top of the full mark to 1/3 from the bottom mark in 10,000mi / 16000km, or about 3/4 quart/750ml.

 

[SirTanon]

I have to actually wonder how much the tested NOACK numbers actually apply under 'real world' operating conditions.

I say this because, over the course of at least 8 or 9 OCIs in my 2010 Fusion, I would fill the oil to the top of the hash marks on the dipstick, and then when the next OCI time came, and I checked the dipstick, the oil was still at the top of the hash marks, with no added oil required during the 7,500 miles between. Sure, there might have been a negligible amount of change that I could not differentiate with my own eyes, but it was just that - negligible. I would expect with an average NOACK between 9 and 12%, I would have seen it at least down by 1/4", but I never did. It wasn't ever even 1/8".

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by SirTanon
I have to actually wonder how much the tested NOACK numbers actually apply under 'real world' operating conditions.

I say this because, over the course of at least 8 or 9 OCIs in my 2010 Fusion, I would fill the oil to the top of the hash marks on the dipstick, and then when the next OCI time came, and I checked the dipstick, the oil was still at the top of the hash marks, with no added oil required during the 7,500 miles between. Sure, there might have been a negligible amount of change that I could not differentiate with my own eyes, but it was just that - negligible. I would expect with an average NOACK between 9 and 12%, I would have seen it at least down by 1/4", but I never did. It wasn't ever even 1/8".


I don't think it matters all that much. My preference is anything less than 10%, although many have used oils higher than that with no noticeable oil burn off. The engine type and oil control rings plays a big part.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by SirTanon
I have to actually wonder how much the tested NOACK numbers actually apply under 'real world' operating conditions.

I say this because, over the course of at least 8 or 9 OCIs in my 2010 Fusion, I would fill the oil to the top of the hash marks on the dipstick, and then when the next OCI time came, and I checked the dipstick, the oil was still at the top of the hash marks, with no added oil required during the 7,500 miles between. Sure, there might have been a negligible amount of change that I could not differentiate with my own eyes, but it was just that - negligible. I would expect with an average NOACK between 9 and 12%, I would have seen it at least down by 1/4", but I never did. It wasn't ever even 1/8".

Great point. How hot does the oil have to get for the Noack numbers to really matter? Lets say between a Noack of 10 and a Noack of 8.8, or 4.1? I'd say a lot hotter than the engine oil ever reaches. I think some of us put too much emphasis on Noack.

 

[SlavaB]

Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by SirTanon
I have to actually wonder how much the tested NOACK numbers actually apply under 'real world' operating conditions.

I say this because, over the course of at least 8 or 9 OCIs in my 2010 Fusion, I would fill the oil to the top of the hash marks on the dipstick, and then when the next OCI time came, and I checked the dipstick, the oil was still at the top of the hash marks, with no added oil required during the 7,500 miles between. Sure, there might have been a negligible amount of change that I could not differentiate with my own eyes, but it was just that - negligible. I would expect with an average NOACK between 9 and 12%, I would have seen it at least down by 1/4", but I never did. It wasn't ever even 1/8".

Great point. How hot does the oil have to get for the Noack numbers to really matter? Lets say between a Noack of 10 and a Noack of 8.8, or 4.1? I'd say a lot hotter than the engine oil ever reaches. I think some of us put too much emphasis on Noack.


The thing is (if my understanding is correct) it doesn't take much oil for carbon buildup to appear in GDI engine, so hence the lower the better

 

[burla]

Noack are one measure of viscosity so are cst and hths. If you look at cst and hths kind of shows low viscosity oil, meaning easier to achieve lower noack. Amsoil is a very stable oil, just not very thick.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Just looking at 5W30s, Ravenol DXG beats SS by just a bit at 6.0% Noack loss.

https://www.ravenol.de/en/products/usage/d/Product/show/p/ravenol-dxg-sae-5w-30.html

The old M1 5W30 ESP Formula was also supposed to be right around 6%, although I'm not sure if we ever saw a result from the manufacturer on that one. That was a higher HTHS oil, something like 3.58 cP with the other two around 3.1 or so.

Seems like 10W30s in the area of 4% are not that hard to find...the PQIA even had PYB near that level, although it didn't last.

http://www.pqiadata.org/Pennzoil10W30.html

 

[OilUzer]

Originally Posted by burla
Noack are one measure of viscosity so are cst and hths. If you look at cst and hths kind of shows low viscosity oil, meaning easier to achieve lower noack. Amsoil is a very stable oil, just not very thick.


???
Can you please elaborate?

 

[OilUzer]

Castrol GTX Magnatec 10Wx30 has Noack of 6.4 or 6.9 it's one of those but can't recall.

some Kia/Hyundai people like it along with their other favorite oils ... you know flavor of the month/oci ...

The new jugs are full synthetic. Older jugs were syn-blend.
~$22.00 / 5 qt. On Wal-Mart website.
If you are chasing $ per Noack, it's not a bad price!

The only problem is that your engine may end up smarter than you

 

[SlavaB]

Castrol GTX Magnatec 10Wx30 has Noack of 6.4 or 6.9 it's one of those but can't recall.

some Kia/Hyundai people like it along with their other favorite oils ... you know flavor of the month/oci ...

The new jugs are full synthetic. Older jugs were syn-blend.
~$22.00 / 5 qt. On Wal-Mart website.
If you are chasing $ per Noack, it's not a bad price!

The only problem is that your engine may end up smarter than you

[/

I've used Magnatec at the previous OCI and it was the smoothest oil I've tried. Will most probably switch back to it at my next OCI

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by SirTanon
I have to actually wonder how much the tested NOACK numbers actually apply under 'real world' operating conditions.

I say this because, over the course of at least 8 or 9 OCIs in my 2010 Fusion, I would fill the oil to the top of the hash marks on the dipstick, and then when the next OCI time came, and I checked the dipstick, the oil was still at the top of the hash marks, with no added oil required during the 7,500 miles between. Sure, there might have been a negligible amount of change that I could not differentiate with my own eyes, but it was just that - negligible. I would expect with an average NOACK between 9 and 12%, I would have seen it at least down by 1/4", but I never did. It wasn't ever even 1/8".

A recent survey of lubricant professionals conducted by MachineryLubrication.com found 80%+ did not conduct regular volatility testing of lubricants... take that for whatever it's worth.

My guess is unless you're engines got a drinking or cooling problem, it doesn't matter much. I have 160k miles on my engine and regularly run oils with a 10%+ noack and NEVER EVER have had to top off. My engine never gets close to the 250c test temperature of the noack volatility test. In fact the hottest coolant temp I've ever seen using my OBD2 is 206c... that's not even boiling water temp, let alone oil. (grp2 are good to 250 before they begin to breakdown and grp3 or better, around 300c right???... that's gonna be well above the boiling point of your avg coolant mix/rad cap)

The way I see it, unless you have one of the aforementioned issues or you're regularly spending time on the track... noack is just not worth something losing sleep over.

 

[demarpaint]

javascript:quickReply(5192611,1,0)
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by SirTanon
I have to actually wonder how much the tested NOACK numbers actually apply under 'real world' operating conditions.

I say this because, over the course of at least 8 or 9 OCIs in my 2010 Fusion, I would fill the oil to the top of the hash marks on the dipstick, and then when the next OCI time came, and I checked the dipstick, the oil was still at the top of the hash marks, with no added oil required during the 7,500 miles between. Sure, there might have been a negligible amount of change that I could not differentiate with my own eyes, but it was just that - negligible. I would expect with an average NOACK between 9 and 12%, I would have seen it at least down by 1/4", but I never did. It wasn't ever even 1/8".

A recent survey of lubricant professionals conducted by MachineryLubrication.com found 80%+ did not conduct regular volatility testing of lubricants... take that for whatever it's worth.

My guess is unless you're engines got a drinking or cooling problem, it doesn't matter much. I have 160k miles on my engine and regularly run oils with a 10%+ noack and NEVER EVER have had to top off. My engine never gets close to the 250c test temperature of the noack volatility test. In fact the hottest coolant temp I've ever seen using my OBD2 is 206c... that's not even boiling water temp, let alone oil. (grp2 are good to 250 before they begin to breakdown and grp3 or better, around 300c right???... that's gonna be well above the boiling point of your avg coolant mix/rad cap)

The way I see it, unless you have one of the aforementioned issues or you're regularly spending time on the track... noack is just not worth something losing sleep over.


I think you're right. I can't speak from experience about a DI engine, I don't own one. But as I said earlier the engine would have to far exceed operating temperature imo for Noack to play in, and at that point you'd have more important things to be concerned with. I still think it is something over thought in probably over 90% of the vehicles on the road today. JMO

 

[wemay]

From what I've read recently, It's a test that has repeatability issues therefore doesn't give you consistent results. I was one of those Noack % chasers for while. No more.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by wemay
From what I've read recently, It's a test that has repeatability issues therefore doesn't give you consistent results. I was one of those Noack % chasers for while. No more.

After doing my own homework and research I'm not going to chase it either. There's more to a good oil than Noack numbers.

 

[OilUzer]

re Noack:

y'all, let's not forget that the cylinder wall temps are well above the nominal coolant and engine oil temperatures ... it can easily be in the 400°F+ territory ... and oil doesn't just start evaporating right at 250°C (482°F). That's just the selected test temperature.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by OilUzer
re Noack:

y'all, let's not forget that the cylinder wall temps are well above the nominal coolant and engine oil temperatures ... it can easily be in the 400°F+ territory ... and oil doesn't just start evaporating right st 250°C (482°F). That's just the selected test temperature.

If a premium synthetic oil has a flash point of 500F and cylinder wall temps exceed that will it matter? That's the question I ask myself in trying to understand this. I would also imagine that flash point can vary slightly from one lot of oil to another.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

How long has the current 15% threshold been in place? If 15% or less was too high, where's the dearth of engine failures due to wear and sludge? I'm certainly not experiencing it @ 160k... Even M1's Annual Protection which is good for 20k miles has a noack of about 9%, why aren't they chasing unicorn tears??... So I'm not terribly concerned about my +10% noack oil on a 4~5k mile oci. (or even a 7500 oci for that matter)

 

[SlavaB]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
How long has the current 15% threshold been in place? If 15% or less was too high, where's the dearth of engine failures due to wear and sludge? I'm certainly not experiencing it @ 160k... Even M1's Annual Protection which is good for 20k miles has a noack of about 9%, why aren't they chasing unicorn tears??... So I'm not terribly concerned about my +10% noack oil on a 4~5k mile oci. (or even a 7500 oci for that matter)


Carbon buildup is a real thing for GDI engines

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by SlavaB

Carbon buildup is a real thing for GDI engines

I get that GDI's are a different beast but there are 20yr old GDI's on the road and my guess is most of the people running them couldn't spell noack let alone tell you what it means. They've been taking their car into Jiffy Lube and running bulk dino all this time... has the performance taken a hit, probably. Are they still on the road...yep. (and diesel engines are racking up millions of miles running 8,9 or 10% HD noack oils, right?)