Do you think most Millennials will be better or worse off than Boomers/X?

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Originally Posted by Chris142
Every older generation complains about the younger generation. Always have. I'm a generation X. My boss is a baby boomer. He has stopped hiring "grunt" help in the summer when we are busy. He is fed up with them being late, playing on their phone on company time, leaving early and complaining about things we have both had to do.

Sounds to me like your boss' complaints are justified...
 
My first house was a 3 bedroom 2 bath split level with a carport bought in 1976 for $27,900 30 year loan with an interest rate of 13.5%. Payments were $250 a month with taxes and insurance included in an escrow account. At the time my brother told me I was crazy for having such high mortgage payments! In 1994 I bought my current house, 3,000 sq ft 3 bedroom 3 baths L shaped ranch with a 1,400 sq ft basement 2 car garage with storage and workshop. 30 year conventional loan at 4% interest rate. I paid my current house off in 22 years, 8 years early and have been debt free since 2016. I bought my last new vehicle in 1995 which I owned for 19 years and have bought only CPO cars for the wife since and my current 2005 Chevy truck, bought used for me. My wife and I never went to college and made above average money, but we were always focused and consistent and worked as a team with the goal of being comfortable and debt free in our retirement years. My wife works for the USPS and has 2 more years until retirement. I went part time at work 5 years ago and retired 3 years ago. We both have untouched 401K's plus she will have a pension and SS when she retires. I firmly believe if anyone no matter the generation is disciplined, works hard and remains focused on a goal, can accomplish those goals with an average income and perseverance.
 
Originally Posted by Astro14
~snip~


On the other hand, it also costs a lot more for information. Internet costs money to access (some don't have access to a public library or can't be bothered to go to a public library in order to only look up how to cook chicken alfredo)

Cellphones cost a lot of money - even the "budget" ones still cost way more than they should.

But I'd also like to add, a lot of 'things' seem to be 'standard' now regardless if a person wants them or not. Buying a cellphone and then a monthly plan. Dishwashers or other "nice" things inside homes that aren't needed to up their sell value (like in the why nobody builds small houses thread). A bajillion sensors on cars to help people drive when all they need is a good set of eyes and a brain.....
 
It's going to be harder for them because from an international perspective the playing field is more level today than it has been in at least 100 years. They'll be fine, life will be a little bit different, not necessarily better/worse than what prior generations went through.
 
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Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by spasm3
You seem to like the , some one has it better , easier, than someone else, discussions.


I like many different discussions. But to your point I do.

That is part of life and our experiences. Our joy and pain.

Some have connections, some don't.
Some inherit lots of money and some don't.
Some have physical, mental, intellectual, emotional issues, some don't.
Some had good family/mentors, some don't.
Some have discipline, some don't.
Some live in good areas, some don't.
Some can afford to move for jobs, some don't.
Some chose the few high paying careers, some don't.
Some will have good luck, some don't.
Some will suffer many tragedies, some don't.
Some take risks, some don't.
Some suffer addiction issues, some don't.
Some have a good education, some don't.

Some do have it better and easier. My discussions often lean towards how wide should the gap be between those who are doing well and those who aren't. Should it grow wider or narrower?

The creation of a strong middle class was a good thing. As a boomer I benefitted from it. How do we grow it or will it shrink? How will technology, automation the global economy etc.... affect Millennials and beyond.


Some refuse to lift a finger to improve their situation.
Some just demand a handout, paid for by those who choose to work rather than complain.
Some promise those handouts, in a self-serving attempt to buy votes, paid for with OPM (Other Peoples Money).
Some people are tired of lazy slugs who think the world owes them a living, with no effort on their part expended.
 
Here's where I'm getting at. An example with my grandparents.

They had 2 kids, in 69' and 71'. They bought their 3rd home in 1972 (current) for $26k, or $160k in today's dollars. That house is worth close to $400k now.

My grandma was a stay at home mom, and my grandpa owned a small auto collision shop that paid the bills. Very middle class income.

No health insurance. Both kids were delivered in the hospital and paid 100% out of pocket no problem. My grandpa paid for a hip replacement out of pocket it was so cheap.

My grandpa retired at 60 and he's 82 now and still lives comfortably.

It was ridiculously easier back then.
 
Originally Posted by 02SE


Some refuse to lift a finger to improve their situation.
Some just demand a handout, paid for by those who choose to work rather than complain.
Some promise those handouts, in a self-serving attempt to buy votes, paid for with OPM (Other Peoples Money).
Some people are tired of lazy slugs who think the world owes them a living, with no effort on their part expended.


I am a totally fine with these people being a good percentage of folks in USA and eating up debt.

It makes far easier to win with money when you realize this and plan accordingly to take advantage. If everyone worked and went for it would be much harder to find opportunity. I know recession was bad for some in 2008 however I picked up a rental property I split with sibling for $0.30 on the dollar as a family was tossed.

That being said medical debt/cost out of pocket is devastating and feel for people in those bad situations.
 
Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by gfh77665
Originally Posted by gman2304
Originally Posted by skyactiv
Look ZZMan, you bring up too many threads about old vs young people. Be thankful you have a pension as those went away unless you have a government job or the very rare job in the private sector that offers one.
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He seems to be generationally curious lately! Or stirring the pot...IDK.



His first thread was from a politically charged self described "Disrupter" group. I thought politcis were frowned upon here?


Seems you are the one pushing the "P" issue. It was about bankruptcy increases in the elderly population. This was easily found on many websites.


I never posted ANY political links. You did by posting a political "disrupter" link.
 
Originally Posted by Nick1994
Here's where I'm getting at. An example with my grandparents.

They had 2 kids, in 69' and 71'. They bought their 3rd home in 1972 (current) for $26k, or $160k in today's dollars. That house is worth close to $400k now.

My grandma was a stay at home mom, and my grandpa owned a small auto collision shop that paid the bills. Very middle class income.

No health insurance. Both kids were delivered in the hospital and paid 100% out of pocket no problem. My grandpa paid for a hip replacement out of pocket it was so cheap.

My grandpa retired at 60 and he's 82 now and still lives comfortably.

It was ridiculously easier back then.


That's just one example. It certainly wasn't everyone's experience.
 
I'll offer some thoughts on the younger generations having a more difficult time buying stuff versus the previous generations-

1. Housing isn't free. There's a market value for it. In many areas, the market is determined by the number of jobs in that area that pay "good" wages. The more higher-paying jobs (or better-paying jobs), the more companies in the area, the probability of more employers moving to an area....all create a higher cost of housing. It's called supply and demand.

Another issue with the cost of housing is that most developers don't build 1700-1900 sf homes. They are building 2800-3500 sf homes. One reason is that is a very profitable size home. The cost to acquire land, run the development through zoning, permits, fight the "old" neighborhood (the "old" neighborhood doesn't want a new 340 home subdivision, local elected officials have to be paid off, many zoning meetings, etc.), you have the cost of bringing in utilities, retention ponds, etc. You have to pay real estate agents to advertise, sell, etc. There were no subdivisions of 340 homes 50 years ago. Homes were built along city streets in neighborhoods with character.

Another issue is that many areas have minimum home sizes. In our area, it is 1725 sf. Unless it's in an approved subdivision, the minimum lot size is 5 acres. You can get a variance to do 2.5 acres, but that will cost you. 5 acres around here is $50,000. No water meter, no sewage (septic). You might be lucky to have decent power. You're looking at another $10k for septic, water meter, power service, etc. Another $10k to clear, gravel drive, etc.

An 1800 sf house on that $70k+ improved lot will cost $200,000 to build. That's $280,000 to move in a minimum size home on a minimum sized lot.

Right now, any home priced under $225,000 is under contract in less than 48 hours. Even the rat hole $45,000 homes. You have families and slum lords scooping everything up.

Cars- Ask any young person who actually wants to drive what they want. They want a $30-50,000 vehicle. A cheap, used vehicle that is reliable is going to run you $10,000 and that's gonna be a Camry or such with 150k miles on it, minimum.

Another thing that makes everything more expensive now is there's fewer and fewer people in the trades, creating very high wages and very high costs to have service work performed. These same young people griping about the costs of everything don't own a screwdriver or hammer and the thought to assemble a simple tool kit and/or learn how to start taking care of stuff they own.

It's much easier to just work 8-5 M-F, live in the 900 sf apartment with a roommate and hang out at the brewery...
 
I am a Millennial (currently 31)…

I've made my choices, just as anybody else would generations before me. I am in good shape financially, on track to where I want to be so I can retire when I want to. I didn't go to fancy schools through high school, but I picked a college I could afford that offered the major I knew would give me a good living (mechanical engineering). Did a lot of internships/coops to pay off my college bills by the time I graduated, which ended up delaying my graduation to about seven years instead of four… Well worth it. Got every single job I have ever applied for, jobs have been a cake walk for me to find. Currently at an aerospace company. Money is great, I work 40hrs a week (flex-time!) with a fantastic work/life balance… Any OT is paid, which is rare. Low stress.

House will be paid off by the time I am 40-45, no credit card debt and multiple vacations a year. No kids, don't want them. We prefer dogs.

The lady is happy, the dog is happy, I'm happy. Life is good.
 
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Originally Posted by Nick1994
Here's where I'm getting at. An example with my grandparents.

They had 2 kids, in 69' and 71'. They bought their 3rd home in 1972 (current) for $26k, or $160k in today's dollars. That house is worth close to $400k now.

My grandma was a stay at home mom, and my grandpa owned a small auto collision shop that paid the bills. Very middle class income.

No health insurance. Both kids were delivered in the hospital and paid 100% out of pocket no problem. My grandpa paid for a hip replacement out of pocket it was so cheap.

My grandpa retired at 60 and he's 82 now and still lives comfortably.

It was ridiculously easier back then.


You're looking at it all wrong.

It was ridiculously harder then.

Those cars likely didn't even have seatbelts. They certainly didn't have crumple zones or impact absorbing dash materials.

One crash and you're maimed for life. Death, and permanent injury, happened many times more often for each mile traveled. Each mile cost them more of their income, as a percentage, than it does now, while being more risky. DWI wasn't enforced.

They filled them up with leaded gas and breathed those fumes from un-controlled emissions. The air in LA was unbreathable on many days back then, and now, it's hundreds of times more clean.

They didn't have information available at their fingertips. They had to plan a trip to the library and see what they could find.

They always had a dime in their pocket (later a quarter) in case they had to make a phone call. From a pay phone. To a number they had memorized or written down.

They couldn't call 911 for an emergency. If they did get to the police line (no call waiting, no answering machines, so, might get through on the first try, but might not), then they might get a patrol car.

Ambulance was a separate number.

No life-flight helicopter existed.

When they did get to the hospital, there were no CT machines, no MRIs, to see internal injuries. Lots more people died as a result of injuries and things that doctors couldn't see.

In 1972, they were paying 8% on their mortgage. Twice the cost of money now.

In 1973, gasoline more than doubled in price, stations ran out of gas, and you could only buy on odd or even days, and the lines for gas stretched around the block and lasted hours.

It took hours to fill up your car, if the station even had fuel when you got to the front of the line.

Sometimes it didn't.

Many aspects of their lives were far harder than you imagine, and far harder than life today.

But their generation was raised to be appreciative of what they have. They were taught that complaining was both impolite, and unproductive.
 
One other problem with young people today - the college (un)education and the student loan debt.

Our daughter's "plain" bachelor's degree from some no-name state school in AL that people give that "Where the heck is that?" look when we say where she's going will be..... $120,000. That's 4 years and basically useless without a masters that she will pursue so she can be professionally licensed.

In order to Amortize $150,000 in college debt, that is $500/mo for over 40 YEARS.
 
Originally Posted by thooks
One other problem with young people today - the college (un)education and the student loan debt.

Our daughter's "plain" bachelor's degree from some no-name state school in AL that people give that "Where the heck is that?" look when we say where she's going will be..... $120,000. That's 4 years and basically useless without a masters that she will pursue so she can be professionally licensed.

In order to Amortize $150,000 in college debt, that is $500/mo for over 40 YEARS.


They why do it? if you/she is CHOOSING to do it, you must be thinking it will pay off. If you don't think it will pay off, then why do it? There are other majors that pay off faster and better, and some NON-DEGREED jobs that pay great. Do your due diligence.
 
Originally Posted by Astro14

In 1972, they were paying 8% on their mortgage. Twice the cost of money now.


All of your post was GREAT, but that one in particular is the best. People WHINE how tough it is right now, and they can get sub 4% in some cases! My wife and I had a whopping 11.5% mortgage in the mid 80's. Even then, we did not WHINE about it. Instead, we delayed gratification, worked hard, and payed it off in less than 5 years!
 
Both my sons (mid 20's) wonder why some Millennials and Gen Z always whine and complain.

I tell them to ignore those idiots and focus on your careers.
 
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by Chris142
Every older generation complains about the younger generation. Always have. I'm a generation X. My boss is a baby boomer. He has stopped hiring "grunt" help in the summer when we are busy. He is fed up with them being late, playing on their phone on company time, leaving early and complaining about things we have both had to do.

Sounds to me like your boss' complaints are justified...


My son is 23 and tells me he gets told he's the best grunt they've had in a long time at the place where he works.
 
Fascinating thread. I have 3 adult children in their mid to late 30's that are considered millennial. At minimum, I am most happy that they at least learned an excellent work ethic from me. Other things, not so much, LOL. Staying on topic, I think millennials as a group will be worse off than us boomers. Costs for education, current standard of living ("must haves"), health insurance, retirement plans, housing, and lots more will consume more of their income AND time, eroding their "real" quality of life. I.E. double incomes requiring daycare expenses sucks. The American Dream is still obtainable, but it is MUCH different than what us boomers had available. Just my opinion based on my opportunities compared to my adult kids.

Community college, budget cars, budget phones, budget homes, antenna television are still available choices. But, our standard of living seems to dictate that we are entitled to costly "must haves" regardless of financial situation. That part I don't understand. What isn't available anymore is HIGH paying jobs straight out of high school like I had. But, even that might be changing. My son tells me that hourly non-managerial employees at Costco can reach $28/per hour with a pretty decent benefits package IF you want to work hard.
 
Originally Posted by gfh77665
Originally Posted by Astro14

In 1972, they were paying 8% on their mortgage. Twice the cost of money now.


All of your post was GREAT, but that one in particular is the best. People WHINE how tough it is right now, and they can get sub 4% in some cases! My wife and I had a whopping 11.5% mortgage in the mid 80's. Even then, we did not WHINE about it. Instead, we delayed gratification, worked hard, and payed it off in less than 5 years!


That's great, except the median home price was $ 47,000 in 1985.

I'd rather pay 11.5% on 47k over 15 years instead of 4% on $ 226,000 for 15 years...
 
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