Going Back to Real Gasoline?

[IndyFan]

Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Just a little fun FYI, when the EPA went to E10 and higher product, the fuel transport industry had to change the material the transfer hoses and gasket material to something rated for use with ethanol. The service life of the original hoses and gaskets was cut by almost 60% when E10 was mandated.

Another fun FYI...
In 2011, Mercury Marine conducted a study done using E15 and ethanol free gas in marine applications. It was a 300 hour endurance test. They used 2 identical pairs of different size outboard marine engines. The only difference was the gas used in each engine.

The 2 engines running E15 failed catastrophically before the tests were even completed. The 2 running non-ethanol fuel not only passed the endurance tests with flying colors, but upon a tear down inspection, there was nearly zero wear found in either of the 2 engines.


That's exactly why I run ethanol free gas in my boat.

The good news is that I tested my local Shell regular 87 octane gas last week and it showed about 5% ethanol. I run Shell about 90% of the time in my vehicles. More good news. My Mercedes sits for weeks at a time, with ethanol in the gas tank and fuel lines. It has done that since new. It appears to have suffered no issues.

 

[BeerCan]

Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Just a little fun FYI, when the EPA went to E10 and higher product, the fuel transport industry had to change the material the transfer hoses and gasket material to something rated for use with ethanol. The service life of the original hoses and gaskets was cut by almost 60% when E10 was mandated.

Another fun FYI...
In 2011, Mercury Marine conducted a study done using E15 and ethanol free gas in marine applications. It was a 300 hour endurance test. They used 2 identical pairs of different size outboard marine engines. The only difference was the gas used in each engine.

The 2 engines running E15 failed catastrophically before the tests were even completed. The 2 running non-ethanol fuel not only passed the endurance tests with flying colors, but upon a tear down inspection, there was nearly zero wear found in either of the 2 engines.

Is it this study? https://www.nmma.org/assets/cabinets/Cabinet515/E15 study.pdf
the 9.9 hp 4 stroke engines both passed the endurance test
the 300hp 4 stroke the E0 engine failed first (2 of them)
the 200 2 stroke the e15 engine failed first

But I can see where there would be issues in a 2 stroke

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by mk378
Because crude oil is relatively cheap now, it costs more to add ethanol than not. At the request of oil companies, the EPA has granted "waiviers" to allow many oil companies to sell straight gas if they want. They are still free to sell gasohol if the market favored it.

Somehow of course this will still translate to a price increase at the pump.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Corn-Industry-Battered-By-Shocking-Ethanol-Decision.html

I only buy straight gas. I dont have anything against other gasses, and other adults are free to do as they do, but my preference is straight. It just seems more like what was intended.


What was intended? You mean how Henry Ford's initial vehicles were intended to use ethanol? Look it up.

 

[GoldDot40]

Your Mercedes was built with parts/materials that are specifically designed to use ethanol contaminated gasoline. Most vehicles built after 2001 used those materials in the fuel system. I made the mistake of letting my 1979 Camaro sit for 8 months with E10 93 octane in it. The carburetor had just been rebuilt about a year prior. It wouldn't start. Pulled the carb and the gas in the float bowls looked like syrup. That did it for me...no more ethanol contaminated gas for anything that sits more than a few weeks without use.

There is a reason why ethanol is mixed at the time it is loaded onto the tanker vs being stored in the bulk tanks already mixed. Not sure why the Shell you tested only showed 5%. Everytime I load it, the manifest shows about 10.1 to 10.2% ethanol mixed with the load. BP is even higher. Usually around 10.25%.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by E365
I've been using at least E7.7 since 1997 here in Minnesota. STILL waiting to have even one of these "problems" ethanol is supposed to cause.

Nothing but E10 here. Still waiting for all my OPE to him up... or my car to not start....



In reality you are likely using E-7 which makes the people calming 30% less fuel economy on ethanol look like their tests are invalid.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Just a little fun FYI, when the EPA went to E10 and higher product, the fuel transport industry had to change the material the transfer hoses and gasket material to something rated for use with ethanol. The service life of the original hoses and gaskets was cut by almost 60% when E10 was mandated.

Another fun FYI...
In 2011, Mercury Marine conducted a study done using E15 and ethanol free gas in marine applications. It was a 300 hour endurance test. They used 2 identical pairs of different size outboard marine engines. The only difference was the gas used in each engine.

The 2 engines running E15 failed catastrophically before the tests were even completed. The 2 running non-ethanol fuel not only passed the endurance tests with flying colors, but upon a tear down inspection, there was nearly zero wear found in either of the 2 engines.



Mercury outboard attributed the primary cause of failure the engines were running to lean on E-15 because of the higher O2 content of E15.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by mk378
Because crude oil is relatively cheap now, it costs more to add ethanol than not. At the request of oil companies, the EPA has granted "waiviers" to allow many oil companies to sell straight gas if they want. They are still free to sell gasohol if the market favored it.

Somehow of course this will still translate to a price increase at the pump.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Corn-Industry-Battered-By-Shocking-Ethanol-Decision.html

I only buy straight gas. I dont have anything against other gasses, and other adults are free to do as they do, but my preference is straight. It just seems more like what was intended.


What was intended? You mean how Henry Ford's initial vehicles were intended to use ethanol? Look it up.


Might look up Henry Ford dislike of unions too. Poor guy would be disappointed now.
https://www.peoplesworld.org/articl...ford-the-uaw-and-the-power-of-the-press/

 

[SeaJay]

E0 is not an option for some of us because of laws in some states that mandate E10. E0 is not allowed to be sold in those states.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by SeaJay
E0 is not an option for some of us because of laws in some states that mandate E10. E0 is not allowed to be sold in those states.

True.. and I am pretty fortunate to be able to fill up with E0 at my regular service station if I am inclined to. But the cost is outrageous for my pocketbook.. usually ~25c more than premium grade, sometimes even higher.

 

[RDY4WAR]

I would rather have E10. I tested the difference between the two on the dyno, at the track, and in fuel economy. E10 made more power and ran quicker at the track. E0 got ~2.5% better fuel economy, but it was also 11% more expensive at the pump (at the time, even more now) so that's still a net loss.

My lawnmower runs on E10 without a problem. There's only 1 E0 pump close to me and they want $3.89/gal for it (and it's 87 octane) when E10 87 is just $2.25/gal.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by SeaJay
E0 is not an option for some of us because of laws in some states that mandate E10. E0 is not allowed to be sold in those states.



Is this a mandate in New York?

 

[GoldDot40]

Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by SeaJay
E0 is not an option for some of us because of laws in some states that mandate E10. E0 is not allowed to be sold in those states.



Is this a mandate in New York?

According to Pure-gas.org, there are 49 states that sell ethanol free gasoline. New York has a lot of stations that offer ethanol free gas.

 

[SeaJay]

Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by SeaJay
E0 is not an option for some of us because of laws in some states that mandate E10. E0 is not allowed to be sold in those states.



Is this a mandate in New York?

According to Pure-gas.org, there are 49 states that sell ethanol free gasoline. New York has a lot of stations that offer ethanol free gas.


Maybe upstate there is E0, perhaps the law is for the Metro NYC area only. But I have never seen E0 for sale anywhere in the NY Metro area. I do not have the option to purchase E0 anywhere near me. None at all.