ACEA A5 or above.

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by avi1777
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by 2003f7
My Tucson is a 1.6 turbo with D.I.

Use ACEA A3 or C3.
You have Pennzoil Platinum Euro L in Wal Mart. It is MB 229.51 and better than ANY ACEA A5.

better,stronger ex sure but isnt it over kill?

What is overkill? HTHS of Mobil1 5W30 EP is 3, PP Euro L is 3.5. That is the most important thing for turbo application.
Also, PP Euro L is approved against MB 229.51, which means much better deposit control, NOACK limited to max 10% (PP Euro L is GTL based, so in 5W30 application NOACK is probably in range around 7%. BMW TPT 5W30 that is made by SOPUS has NOACK 6.8%. Some argue that PP Euro L is actually same oil as BMW TPT 5W30). So, I am not sure you can characterize lower NOACK, deposits etc. as "overkill."
On top of that, PP Euro L in Wal Mart is $22 for 5qt, while Mobil1 5W30 EP which is ACEA A5 is $25.


Plus, it's (PP E L) low sulphate ash. Hence the "L" in the name.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by edyvw
ACEA A3 is made for CAT protection, as ALL other ACEA oils. When ACEA was formed CAT's were already in use.
C oils (primarily C3) are designed specifically around DPF, but they do help also with protection of catalytic converters due to lower amount of SAPS compared to A sequence.

I understand C was primarily for DPF but never, ever, have I read that A was designed around cat protection?

ACEA sequence was introduced in 1990's when catalytic converters were mandatory in EC. It is not only SAPS level, but NOACK requirements etc. It was introduced bcs API sequence was not sufficient enough for European engines and trajectory where development was going.
 
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by edyvw
A3 is more stringent than A5.

How? Isn't it the same spec other than HTHS requirements?

In general, but ACEA A3 is always (except in very, very few cases) connected to manufacturer's approvals.

I think you meant to say A3 was a more stout oil.

It is, A3 has to have HTHS 3.5. If you compare 5W30 ACEA A3 and 5W30 A5, KV100 is not of big difference, but HTHS is. That means more sophisticated base oil. Similar is to C3 and A5.
 
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
That is absolutely correct (read my first post on this).

Of course, in those days, we didn't hear much about the European concerns given the automotive literature we were exposed to in the day. Heck, most of it was wrong or dumbed down as it was for our stuff, let alone global concerns.
wink.gif
 
So , would PP Euro L be safe to use in a US version of 2017 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI (non turbo) engine ?
 
Originally Posted by ChrisD46
So , would PP Euro L be safe to use in a US version of 2017 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI (non turbo) engine ?

Unnecessary in that engine.
Use anything synthetic.
 
Originally Posted by turnbowm
Originally Posted by ChrisD46
So , would PP Euro L be safe to use in a US version of 2017 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI (non turbo) engine ?

Be aware that moly is very low (3ppm) in PP Euro L 5W30.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4514349/Pennzoil_Platinum_Euro_L_5W30_

I think that you would be better served with a Dexos1 Gen2 5W30 synthetic.

That is irrelevant. PP Euro L is far more sophisticated than Dexos1 Gen2, but it is basically overkill for that engine. That engine is made around ILSAC GF-5 oils.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by turnbowm
Originally Posted by ChrisD46
So , would PP Euro L be safe to use in a US version of 2017 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI (non turbo) engine ?

Be aware that moly is very low (3ppm) in PP Euro L 5W30.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4514349/Pennzoil_Platinum_Euro_L_5W30_

I think that you would be better served with a Dexos1 Gen2 5W30 synthetic.

That is irrelevant. PP Euro L is far more sophisticated than Dexos1 Gen2, but it is basically overkill for that engine. That engine is made around ILSAC GF-5 oils.

In what regard? Certainly not for LSPI protection. ACEA is late to that party...
 
Quote
In what regard? Certainly not for LSPI protection. ACEA is late to that party...

Oil meets BMW LL04 and MB229.51, which are approvals far more stringent than ACEA and ESPECIALLY API.
LSPI in that engine is absolutely not an issue. LSPI is ONLY affecting turbo engines of small displacement. Actually, even in 2.0ltr engines LSPI is not a problem in majority applications.
His engine is 2.4 GDI naturally aspirated, so there is no any concern around LSPI.
Still, even if it was turbo, European approvals are light years ahead of API.
Also, European engines do not have LSPI issue particularly because of these approvals. LSPI issue is primarily confined to American and Asian turbo engines.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote
In what regard? Certainly not for LSPI protection. ACEA is late to that party...

Oil meets BMW LL04 and MB229.51, which are approvals far more stringent than ACEA and ESPECIALLY API.
LSPI in that engine is absolutely not an issue. LSPI is ONLY affecting turbo engines of small displacement. Actually, even in 2.0ltr engines LSPI is not a problem in majority applications.
His engine is 2.4 GDI naturally aspirated, so there is no any concern around LSPI.
Still, even if it was turbo, European approvals are light years ahead of API.
Also, European engines do not have LSPI issue particularly because of these approvals. LSPI issue is primarily confined to American and Asian turbo engines.

Your points are well taken. Would agree that European TGDI cars seem to have less LSPI-related problems than US and Asian cars. Not sure how much engine design and premium gas requirement for most European cars come into play. As I'm sure you know, changes are being considered in ACEA oil standards to address LSPI protection, reduced timing chain wear (stretch) and turbo deposits which are already provided for in Dexos1 Gen2 synthetic oils.

https://www.infineuminsight.com/articles/specification-updates/acea-sequences-revisions-underway/
 
Originally Posted by turnbowm
Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote
In what regard? Certainly not for LSPI protection. ACEA is late to that party...

Oil meets BMW LL04 and MB229.51, which are approvals far more stringent than ACEA and ESPECIALLY API.
LSPI in that engine is absolutely not an issue. LSPI is ONLY affecting turbo engines of small displacement. Actually, even in 2.0ltr engines LSPI is not a problem in majority applications.
His engine is 2.4 GDI naturally aspirated, so there is no any concern around LSPI.
Still, even if it was turbo, European approvals are light years ahead of API.
Also, European engines do not have LSPI issue particularly because of these approvals. LSPI issue is primarily confined to American and Asian turbo engines.

Your points are well taken. Would agree that European TGDI cars seem to have less LSPI-related problems than US and Asian cars. Not sure how much engine design and premium gas requirement for most European cars come into play. As I'm sure you know, changes are being considered in ACEA oil standards to address LSPI protection, reduced timing chain wear (stretch) and turbo deposits which are already provided for in Dexos1 Gen2 synthetic oils.

https://www.infineuminsight.com/articles/specification-updates/acea-sequences-revisions-underway/

ACEA is considering changes due to the fact that Asian and American manufacturers are recommending oils in Europe using ACEA sequence not API. Toyota or Honda (for example) are not going to recommend MB approval, but ACEA approval.
I already stated that going PP Euro L for 2.4i GDi is not necessary. He can go Mobil1 5W30 EP which is ACEA A5/B5 and APi SN+ as well as Dexos.
However, in turbo application, PP Euro L is absolutely better choice due to MB 229.51 approval which is FAR MORE stringent than Desox, especially when it comes to deposits and NOACK. If warranty is not an issue, Castrol 0W40 or Mobil1 0W40FS would be even better choice.
 
Originally Posted by turnbowm
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by turnbowm
Originally Posted by ChrisD46
So , would PP Euro L be safe to use in a US version of 2017 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI (non turbo) engine ?

Be aware that moly is very low (3ppm) in PP Euro L 5W30.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4514349/Pennzoil_Platinum_Euro_L_5W30_

I think that you would be better served with a Dexos1 Gen2 5W30 synthetic.

That is irrelevant. PP Euro L is far more sophisticated than Dexos1 Gen2, but it is basically overkill for that engine. That engine is made around ILSAC GF-5 oils.

In what regard? Certainly not for LSPI protection. ACEA is late to that party...


Nor wear, fuel economy, oxidation, sludge, and comparability comparing A5 to DEXOS 1.
 
Originally Posted by Imp4
.


Nice graph!

Does 10 mean higher or lower of something e.g. more or less wear, etc.
Do you have or can you superimpose a3/b4 on top of this graph?
Thanks
 
And, once again, the caveat from the Lubrizol comparison chart has to be highlighted:

Originally Posted by "Lubrizol"
NOTE: These performance charts are primarily designed to demonstrate performance within the same industry specification, for example, ACEA E6 versus ACEA E7, or API CH-4 versus API CJ-4. This tool has not been expressly designed to show relative performance between different specifications.
 
Originally Posted by weasley
And, once again, the caveat from the Lubrizol comparison chart has to be highlighted:

Originally Posted by "Lubrizol"
NOTE: These performance charts are primarily designed to demonstrate performance within the same industry specification, for example, ACEA E6 versus ACEA E7, or API CH-4 versus API CJ-4. This tool has not been expressly designed to show relative performance between different specifications.


Does this mean using this graph to compare a3/b4 with a5/b5 is like comparing apples and oranges ... or it sounds like it is ok since both specs are within the same industry? No?

Also is 10 a grade meaning good or does it mean high (i.e. bad)?

Kind of like graphs like these. It summarizes everything for you ... assuming it's accurate!!
 
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Originally Posted by weasley
And, once again, the caveat from the Lubrizol comparison chart has to be highlighted:

Originally Posted by "Lubrizol"
NOTE: These performance charts are primarily designed to demonstrate performance within the same industry specification, for example, ACEA E6 versus ACEA E7, or API CH-4 versus API CJ-4. This tool has not been expressly designed to show relative performance between different specifications.


Does this mean using this graph to compare a3/b4 with a5/b5 is like comparing apples and oranges ... or it sounds like it is ok since both specs are within the same industry? No?

A3/B4 vs. A5/B5 should be fine.

A3 vs. C3 would be sketchy.

A5 vs. dexos1 would be meaningless.


Originally Posted by OilUzer
Also is 10 a grade meaning good or does it mean high (i.e. bad)?

High score means good.
 
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