Havoline Pro DS vs TGMO 0W-20
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Never said it was the only friction reducer. Anyone who knows the additives of the two know TGMO has more moly.
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Never said it was the only friction reducer. Anyone who knows the additives of the two know TGMO has more moly.
Engineer20, is that you?
Never said it was the only friction reducer. Anyone who knows the additives of the two know TGMO has more moly.
Engineer20, is that you?
Originally Posted by Ignatius
Originally Posted by PimTac
Where have you seen all this negative feedback?
Mainly from reading through Pro DS threads on BITOG as I was researching it as something to put in a 2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. Many people were saying that it is an ultra thin oil and were not having good results with it. I read enough to where I was turned off to it, just one person's assessment based on reading BITOG comments.
The PDS for all ProDS grades shows their respective 100c kv to be right in the middle of the "standard range", for the grade.
ProDS PDS
Plus, be careful about basing what oil you use based on someone else's UOA. It's nice to see how an oil held up in someone else's car but with respect to yours the age of engine is different, brand and grade of fuel is different, maintenance history is different, loads are different, oil filters are different, driving habits are different and driving conditions will be different. In short, beyond a red flag showing catastrophic lubricant failure, there's not much in someone else's UOA that you can apply to your engine....
Originally Posted by PimTac
Where have you seen all this negative feedback?
Mainly from reading through Pro DS threads on BITOG as I was researching it as something to put in a 2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. Many people were saying that it is an ultra thin oil and were not having good results with it. I read enough to where I was turned off to it, just one person's assessment based on reading BITOG comments.
The PDS for all ProDS grades shows their respective 100c kv to be right in the middle of the "standard range", for the grade.
ProDS PDS
Plus, be careful about basing what oil you use based on someone else's UOA. It's nice to see how an oil held up in someone else's car but with respect to yours the age of engine is different, brand and grade of fuel is different, maintenance history is different, loads are different, oil filters are different, driving habits are different and driving conditions will be different. In short, beyond a red flag showing catastrophic lubricant failure, there's not much in someone else's UOA that you can apply to your engine....
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4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Originally Posted by Ignatius
I've seen a lot of negative feedback for Havoline Pro DS specifically and it seems like some people are in love with TGMO.
Personally I picked up Mobil 1, received the $12 rebate, and got the $5 Walmart coupon from entering the Hot Wheels sweepstakes. $24 - $12 - $5 = $7 for a 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 is a deal no one is beating for the quality of the product you're receiving.
Talk about art of the deal … if there were any flies on you they'd be paying rent …
I've seen a lot of negative feedback for Havoline Pro DS specifically and it seems like some people are in love with TGMO.
Personally I picked up Mobil 1, received the $12 rebate, and got the $5 Walmart coupon from entering the Hot Wheels sweepstakes. $24 - $12 - $5 = $7 for a 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 is a deal no one is beating for the quality of the product you're receiving.
Talk about art of the deal … if there were any flies on you they'd be paying rent …
Originally Posted by Ignatius
Personally I picked up Mobil 1, received the $12 rebate, and got the $5 Walmart coupon from entering the Hot Wheels sweepstakes. $24 - $12 - $5 = $7 for a 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 is a deal no one is beating for the quality of the product you're receiving.
I'm with you. When I see deals like that I load up. And for those using a 0W20 oil, Mobil 1 is tough to beat.
Personally I picked up Mobil 1, received the $12 rebate, and got the $5 Walmart coupon from entering the Hot Wheels sweepstakes. $24 - $12 - $5 = $7 for a 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 is a deal no one is beating for the quality of the product you're receiving.
I'm with you. When I see deals like that I load up. And for those using a 0W20 oil, Mobil 1 is tough to beat.
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by Ignatius
Originally Posted by PimTac
Where have you seen all this negative feedback?
Mainly from reading through Pro DS threads on BITOG as I was researching it as something to put in a 2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. Many people were saying that it is an ultra thin oil and were not having good results with it. I read enough to where I was turned off to it, just one person's assessment based on reading BITOG comments.
The PDS for all ProDS grades shows their respective 100c kv to be right in the middle of the "standard range", for the grade.
ProDS PDS
Plus, be careful about basing what oil you use based on someone else's UOA. It's nice to see how an oil held up in someone else's car but with respect to yours the age of engine is different, brand and grade of fuel is different, maintenance history is different, loads are different, oil filters are different, driving habits are different and driving conditions will be different. In short, beyond a red flag showing catastrophic lubricant failure, there's not much in someone else's UOA that you can apply to your engine....
Should we shut down BITOG as all things are relative and no one can base any assessment on strictly relative things?
I jest. No one need take what I say, be it about Havoline Pro DS oil or anything else, with but a grain of salt.
Originally Posted by 4WD
Originally Posted by Ignatius
I've seen a lot of negative feedback for Havoline Pro DS specifically and it seems like some people are in love with TGMO.
Personally I picked up Mobil 1, received the $12 rebate, and got the $5 Walmart coupon from entering the Hot Wheels sweepstakes. $24 - $12 - $5 = $7 for a 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 is a deal no one is beating for the quality of the product you're receiving.
Talk about art of the deal … if there were any flies on you they'd be paying rent …
I'm a cheap SOB, probably from being in the car business
Originally Posted by Ignatius
Originally Posted by PimTac
Where have you seen all this negative feedback?
Mainly from reading through Pro DS threads on BITOG as I was researching it as something to put in a 2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. Many people were saying that it is an ultra thin oil and were not having good results with it. I read enough to where I was turned off to it, just one person's assessment based on reading BITOG comments.
The PDS for all ProDS grades shows their respective 100c kv to be right in the middle of the "standard range", for the grade.
ProDS PDS
Plus, be careful about basing what oil you use based on someone else's UOA. It's nice to see how an oil held up in someone else's car but with respect to yours the age of engine is different, brand and grade of fuel is different, maintenance history is different, loads are different, oil filters are different, driving habits are different and driving conditions will be different. In short, beyond a red flag showing catastrophic lubricant failure, there's not much in someone else's UOA that you can apply to your engine....
Should we shut down BITOG as all things are relative and no one can base any assessment on strictly relative things?
I jest. No one need take what I say, be it about Havoline Pro DS oil or anything else, with but a grain of salt.
Originally Posted by 4WD
Originally Posted by Ignatius
I've seen a lot of negative feedback for Havoline Pro DS specifically and it seems like some people are in love with TGMO.
Personally I picked up Mobil 1, received the $12 rebate, and got the $5 Walmart coupon from entering the Hot Wheels sweepstakes. $24 - $12 - $5 = $7 for a 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 is a deal no one is beating for the quality of the product you're receiving.
Talk about art of the deal … if there were any flies on you they'd be paying rent …
I'm a cheap SOB, probably from being in the car business
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted by Shannow
TGMO...it's the lack of other indistry and OEM specs that makes it so special.
Why would an oil labeled "Toyota" Genuine Motor Oil need other OEM specs? I'd guess it only needs what Toyota requires.
TGMO...it's the lack of other indistry and OEM specs that makes it so special.
Why would an oil labeled "Toyota" Genuine Motor Oil need other OEM specs? I'd guess it only needs what Toyota requires.
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by Shannow
TGMO...it's the lack of other indistry and OEM specs that makes it so special.
Why would an oil labeled "Toyota" Genuine Motor Oil need other OEM specs? I'd guess it only needs what Toyota requires.
It doesn't...but all the fanboi rubbish about TGMO being "special" over the years has included nonsense about Toyota designing the additive pack (all half a dozen formulations over the years), the oil specifically "designed" for Toyota engines (like the different families are identical in design, materials, and requirements), statements about the asterik Viscosity Modifiers, and Trinuclear moly...there's so much ridiculous hype about this particular oil (current variant).
Originally Posted by Shannow
TGMO...it's the lack of other indistry and OEM specs that makes it so special.
Why would an oil labeled "Toyota" Genuine Motor Oil need other OEM specs? I'd guess it only needs what Toyota requires.
It doesn't...but all the fanboi rubbish about TGMO being "special" over the years has included nonsense about Toyota designing the additive pack (all half a dozen formulations over the years), the oil specifically "designed" for Toyota engines (like the different families are identical in design, materials, and requirements), statements about the asterik Viscosity Modifiers, and Trinuclear moly...there's so much ridiculous hype about this particular oil (current variant).
Toyota genuine motor oil.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by Shannow
TGMO...it's the lack of other indistry and OEM specs that makes it so special.
Why would an oil labeled "Toyota" Genuine Motor Oil need other OEM specs? I'd guess it only needs what Toyota requires.
It doesn't...but all the fanboi rubbish about TGMO being "special" over the years has included nonsense about Toyota designing the additive pack (all half a dozen formulations over the years), the oil specifically "designed" for Toyota engines (like the different families are identical in design, materials, and requirements), statements about the asterik Viscosity Modifiers, and Trinuclear moly...there's so much ridiculous hype about this particular oil (current variant).
Ah, understood.
...which is silly since different oil companies make TGMO for different parts of the world. One possibly being ConocoPhillips. IIRC, Caterham was the biggest devotee.
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by Shannow
TGMO...it's the lack of other indistry and OEM specs that makes it so special.
Why would an oil labeled "Toyota" Genuine Motor Oil need other OEM specs? I'd guess it only needs what Toyota requires.
It doesn't...but all the fanboi rubbish about TGMO being "special" over the years has included nonsense about Toyota designing the additive pack (all half a dozen formulations over the years), the oil specifically "designed" for Toyota engines (like the different families are identical in design, materials, and requirements), statements about the asterik Viscosity Modifiers, and Trinuclear moly...there's so much ridiculous hype about this particular oil (current variant).
Ah, understood.
...which is silly since different oil companies make TGMO for different parts of the world. One possibly being ConocoPhillips. IIRC, Caterham was the biggest devotee.
TGMO does have one quantifiable advantage, at least here. It's the cheapest cost per litre bottle synthetic 0w-20 you're going to get in Canada outside of a distributor or major fire sale.
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted by Ignatius
Originally Posted by PimTac
Where have you seen all this negative feedback?
Mainly from reading through Pro DS threads on BITOG as I was researching it as something to put in a 2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. Many people were saying that it is an ultra thin oil and were not having good results with it. I read enough to where I was turned off to it, just one person's assessment based on reading BITOG comments.
Links to such assessments?
Are these opinions or quantifiable complaints.?
Here's one from just over a year ago:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...iq-4380-havoline-pro-ds-5w20#Post4765108
Originally Posted by Ignatius
Originally Posted by PimTac
Where have you seen all this negative feedback?
Mainly from reading through Pro DS threads on BITOG as I was researching it as something to put in a 2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. Many people were saying that it is an ultra thin oil and were not having good results with it. I read enough to where I was turned off to it, just one person's assessment based on reading BITOG comments.
Links to such assessments?
Are these opinions or quantifiable complaints.?
Here's one from just over a year ago:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...iq-4380-havoline-pro-ds-5w20#Post4765108
Originally Posted by BillyE
I don't know if it means anything as far as wear, but my 5.7 valvetrain was much quieter with TGMO vs other 0W-20 and 0W-30 oils. It was very noticeable throughout the OCI.
That's interesting. I just dumped the factory fill with 8k miles on my 2019 4Runner, and filled with Havoline Pro DS 0W-20 6 quart box from Walmart. Used the same oil a couple weeks ago in my wife's 2.5L 2014 Forester. I have to say both cars run noticeably quieter with this oil. She also mentioned a 3+ mpg bump in fuel economy on the dashboard monitor, but she doesn't log her mileage on fuelly.
Prior to this interval, my wife had all her oil changes done at the Subaru dealership. Makes me wonder if they use the Subaru 0W-20 oil, or more likely whatever cheap oil they can buy in bulk, probably not even a 0W-20. I'll be doing all her changes myself from now on.
I don't know if it means anything as far as wear, but my 5.7 valvetrain was much quieter with TGMO vs other 0W-20 and 0W-30 oils. It was very noticeable throughout the OCI.
That's interesting. I just dumped the factory fill with 8k miles on my 2019 4Runner, and filled with Havoline Pro DS 0W-20 6 quart box from Walmart. Used the same oil a couple weeks ago in my wife's 2.5L 2014 Forester. I have to say both cars run noticeably quieter with this oil. She also mentioned a 3+ mpg bump in fuel economy on the dashboard monitor, but she doesn't log her mileage on fuelly.
Prior to this interval, my wife had all her oil changes done at the Subaru dealership. Makes me wonder if they use the Subaru 0W-20 oil, or more likely whatever cheap oil they can buy in bulk, probably not even a 0W-20. I'll be doing all her changes myself from now on.
Originally Posted by tom in boise
I have a 2008 Landcruiser with the 5.7l V8 and 90k miles on it. SInce I've owned it, I have used TGMO 0W-20 oil at 8k OCI (did a blackstone analysis to establish OCI). But, I see the boxed Havoline PRO DS 0W-20 is literally half the price of TGMO. Should I be concerned about switching from TGMO to the PRO DS oil?
No.
Given as your vehicle was designed and built long before the current incarnation of TGMO even existed, it certainly doesn't need it. It's not hurting anything, but if you want to save money, go ahead, it'll be fine.
It won't hurt your Cruiser any to switch to ProDS, or really any off the shelf full synthetic oil of the right weight.
To be honest, despite that kind of being the point of this forum, people tend to WAY overthink things here. There is no magical oil, your engine is an incredibly reliable one, and it will be fine running whatever as long as you change it on time. There are many vehicles with that same engine chugging merrily along at over 200,000 miles, and I'd reckon the vast majority of them got a steady diet of whatever was cheapest at the lube shop.
I have, as of yet, to see any damage caused to an engine by running the wrong brand of oil, so long as the spec and interval are correct.
I have a 2008 Landcruiser with the 5.7l V8 and 90k miles on it. SInce I've owned it, I have used TGMO 0W-20 oil at 8k OCI (did a blackstone analysis to establish OCI). But, I see the boxed Havoline PRO DS 0W-20 is literally half the price of TGMO. Should I be concerned about switching from TGMO to the PRO DS oil?
No.
Given as your vehicle was designed and built long before the current incarnation of TGMO even existed, it certainly doesn't need it. It's not hurting anything, but if you want to save money, go ahead, it'll be fine.
It won't hurt your Cruiser any to switch to ProDS, or really any off the shelf full synthetic oil of the right weight.
To be honest, despite that kind of being the point of this forum, people tend to WAY overthink things here. There is no magical oil, your engine is an incredibly reliable one, and it will be fine running whatever as long as you change it on time. There are many vehicles with that same engine chugging merrily along at over 200,000 miles, and I'd reckon the vast majority of them got a steady diet of whatever was cheapest at the lube shop.
I have, as of yet, to see any damage caused to an engine by running the wrong brand of oil, so long as the spec and interval are correct.
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Personally I'd just use whatever you can find on sale or on rebate. This year alone you could have taken advantage of Mobil 1, Pennzoil, and Rotella Gas Truck...all three (if purchased in five quart jugs at Walmart) could have been had for around $2 dollars a quart, after rebates. And I have never had an issue with any of them sending me that rebate check. Oh and I've never had an issue with any of them as an oil...come to think of it I've never had a problem with TGMO (unless you count paying $80 dollars for TGMO vs $22 for all the others I listed, as a problem and I did).
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Originally Posted by Railrust
Personally I'd just use whatever you can find on sale or on rebate. This year alone you could have taken advantage of Mobil 1, Pennzoil, and Rotella Gas Truck...all three (if purchased in five quart jugs at Walmart) could have been had for around $2 dollars a quart, after rebates. And I have never had an issue with any of them sending me that rebate check. Oh and I've never had an issue with any of them as an oil...come to think of it I've never had a problem with TGMO (unless you count paying $80 dollars for TGMO vs $22 for all the others I listed, as a problem and I did).
Check you local dealer for TGMO. No reason to pay that much for it. Mine sells it for 4.25/quart.
Personally I'd just use whatever you can find on sale or on rebate. This year alone you could have taken advantage of Mobil 1, Pennzoil, and Rotella Gas Truck...all three (if purchased in five quart jugs at Walmart) could have been had for around $2 dollars a quart, after rebates. And I have never had an issue with any of them sending me that rebate check. Oh and I've never had an issue with any of them as an oil...come to think of it I've never had a problem with TGMO (unless you count paying $80 dollars for TGMO vs $22 for all the others I listed, as a problem and I did).
Check you local dealer for TGMO. No reason to pay that much for it. Mine sells it for 4.25/quart.
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by Railrust
Personally I'd just use whatever you can find on sale or on rebate. This year alone you could have taken advantage of Mobil 1, Pennzoil, and Rotella Gas Truck...all three (if purchased in five quart jugs at Walmart) could have been had for around $2 dollars a quart, after rebates. And I have never had an issue with any of them sending me that rebate check. Oh and I've never had an issue with any of them as an oil...come to think of it I've never had a problem with TGMO (unless you count paying $80 dollars for TGMO vs $22 for all the others I listed, as a problem and I did).
Check you local dealer for TGMO. No reason to pay that much for it. Mine sells it for 4.25/quart.
Last week my AZ store had Rotella Gas Truck for $3 a quart.
Originally Posted by Railrust
Personally I'd just use whatever you can find on sale or on rebate. This year alone you could have taken advantage of Mobil 1, Pennzoil, and Rotella Gas Truck...all three (if purchased in five quart jugs at Walmart) could have been had for around $2 dollars a quart, after rebates. And I have never had an issue with any of them sending me that rebate check. Oh and I've never had an issue with any of them as an oil...come to think of it I've never had a problem with TGMO (unless you count paying $80 dollars for TGMO vs $22 for all the others I listed, as a problem and I did).
Check you local dealer for TGMO. No reason to pay that much for it. Mine sells it for 4.25/quart.
Last week my AZ store had Rotella Gas Truck for $3 a quart.
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