BMW ATF Lifetime Fluid

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
691
Location
PA
Applies to all manufactures that market artificially low maintenance costs. I lost count number of times work colleagues who refused a fluid replacement based on their manufacturers' maintenance schedule timeline. ie Toyota doesn't have it as scheduled item.

To my work colleagues: "Get Real!"

40-50K mi is the recommended ATF OCI for non-towing applications.

BMW ATF
 
EXACTLY! LOL The auto manufacturer and engineers know best. I read that a lot here. I wonder whose lifetime they're referring to, the lifetime of the car owner, or the lifetime of the warranty.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The lifetime of the transmission. When the tranny fails, it's life is over. Pretty simple, replace it with your own money, not the OEM's.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
There is HUGE money to be made on the service side by doing extensive MTTF testing on all components and systems, and making sure 95%+ of that item makes it just past the warranty term and then fails.

Do you really think it's coincidence when you buy an item with a 2-year warranty and it fails at ~26 months? That means a good failure analysis was conducted and the warranty term was properly specified to ensure minimal costs for the manufacturer, and maximum market exposure to repeat customers replacing the failures. IMHO any "lifetime" item you can expect to fail shortly after the written warranty expires if you haven't yet done maintenance on it. But if you care for the machinery like you expect it to last YOUR lifetime, it will most always last longer than those who believe the manufacturer's "lifetime" expectation.
 
Every time I query the masses, the common belief is that transmission fluid is indeed filled-for-life. This is an uphill battle for us to educate the public.

I work with transmission and power takeoff unit designers, where my job is to determine why bearings fail. Usually the root cause is excessive debris denting. Every opportunity I get, I try to convince them to incorporate at least one fluid change around 30K to 40K to get rid of break-in debris, as Mercedes did when they modified their fill-for-life stance. Their answer is to force all suppliers to guarantee a maximum level of cleanliness in their parts for production. This ignores the debris that is generated during break-in. It also forces bearing manufacturers to supercharge their material. No real estate is given to make bearings bigger.

I understand their position, because the motoring public doesn't want to hear that they have to spend an afternoon taking their car in and spend $200+ on a perfectly good working car for this service, especially when the competitor doesn't require it. This fill-for-life is now engrained into the motoring public's minds.

This means that only us enthusiasts and other people who have critical thinking skills will be changing transmission fluid (if these other people can convince their dealers to do so.... another uphill task).
 
Originally Posted by Kestas
Every time I query the masses, the common belief is that transmission fluid is indeed filled-for-life. This is an uphill battle for us to educate the public.

I work with transmission and power takeoff unit designers, where my job is to determine why bearings fail. Usually the root cause is excessive debris denting. Every opportunity I get, I try to convince them to incorporate at least one fluid change around 30K to 40K to get rid of break-in debris, as Mercedes did when they modified their fill-for-life stance. Their answer is to force all suppliers to guarantee a maximum level of cleanliness in their parts for production. This ignores the debris that is generated during break-in. It also forces bearing manufacturers to supercharge their material. No real estate is given to make bearings bigger.

I understand their position, because the motoring public doesn't want to hear that they have to spend an afternoon taking their car in and spend $200+ on a perfectly good working car for this service, especially when the competitor doesn't require it. This fill-for-life is now engrained into the motoring public's minds.

This means that only us enthusiasts and other people who have critical thinking skills will be changing transmission fluid (if these other people can convince their dealers to do so.... another uphill task).


Outstanding.
It kills me when Lexus claims lifetime fluid. I can guarantee you our Toyota cars will have regular transmission service.
 
Originally Posted by Kestas
Every time I query the masses, the common belief is that transmission fluid is indeed filled-for-life. This is an uphill battle for us to educate the public.

I work with transmission and power takeoff unit designers, where my job is to determine why bearings fail. Usually the root cause is excessive debris denting. Every opportunity I get, I try to convince them to incorporate at least one fluid change around 30K to 40K to get rid of break-in debris, as Mercedes did when they modified their fill-for-life stance. Their answer is to force all suppliers to guarantee a maximum level of cleanliness in their parts for production. This ignores the debris that is generated during break-in. It also forces bearing manufacturers to supercharge their material. No real estate is given to make bearings bigger.

I understand their position, because the motoring public doesn't want to hear that they have to spend an afternoon taking their car in and spend $200+ on a perfectly good working car for this service, especially when the competitor doesn't require it. This fill-for-life is now engrained into the motoring public's minds.

This means that only us enthusiasts and other people who have critical thinking skills will be changing transmission fluid (if these other people can convince their dealers to do so.... another uphill task).


I always assumed this was the case. That is why when I bought my Mustang, the trans and diff fluids were changes at 5K miles.
 
Originally Posted by Audios
Watched this last night, ZF loves saying BMW is wrong.

https://youtu.be/D0f3AYoE3cI

Interesting comment about better mileage after a trans service.
The key to this being easy is having a lift, which most of us don't.
 
DIY can pay for a lift over time, but a decent floor jack + jack stands are all thats needed. todays government allows crazy claims + lets big $$$ manufactures get away with murder so to speak. big drug + food is bad or worse!
 
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
I always assumed this was the case. That is why when I bought my Mustang, the trans and diff fluids were changes at 5K miles.

Smart move. You beat me. I did mine at 10K miles.
 
2001 BMW 525i, 178,000 miles. I purchased it in 2004. It was the wife's daily driver for many years and then got passed down to the kids (but is back "home" now). It still has the same lifetime fluid from ZF it came from the factory with and shifts and drives exactly the same as always. Don't know what will go first, the engine or trans... but whichever it is... that will be the end of life for this car.
 
... and ZF is just mad because BMW is not selling their oil. ZF makes a lot of money selling their over priced oil and filters. No wonder they are pushing for frequent service.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
I always assumed this was the case. That is why when I bought my Mustang, the trans and diff fluids were changes at 5K miles.

Smart move. You beat me. I did mine at 10K miles.


It was the first oil change. I used a lift at work. It was nice having drain and fill plugs from the factory on the diff.
 
ZF uses a stupid plastic pan that has to be replaced every time! Why can't they just use a regular metal pan (that you don't have to replace) with a normal drain plug?
mad.gif


Lifetime ATF was a thing even before they started pushing "lifetime ATF" in the first place! Most cars go never have their transmission fluid changed and go to the junkyard on their original factory-fill ATF
crazy2.gif

The difference is that a Toyota can last 300k without changing the ATF. A BMW can't
smirk2.gif


Originally Posted by twoheeldrive
... and ZF is just mad because BMW is not selling their oil. ZF makes a lot of money selling their over priced oil and filters. No wonder they are pushing for frequent service.


You can use Maxlife with no problem, so you don't have to worry about that. The real issue is the stupid pan they used which has to be replaced! The ZF-brand ATF and the BMW-brand ATF are made by a third party, most likely Pento$in. Pentosin is known for their unreasonably-expensive fluids, usually for German cars. Expensive whether the label says ZF, BMW, or Pentosin on the bottle.
 
Originally Posted by Audios
Watched this last night, ZF loves saying BMW is wrong.

https://youtu.be/D0f3AYoE3cI



Loved the Hans and Franz video: heiss,kalt, heiss,kalt heiss,kalt.

Thank God, I changed both cars trans oil at 40K mi.
 
Watched the video and observed while the transmissions get sealed - to prevent moisture adsorption into the fluid.
How true is this and older vehicles had drain and fill bolts and dip sticks for moisture absorption.?
 
Trannies are vented to prevent pressure build-up.

I disagree most strongly with 'lifetime' ATF and gear oil. That said, when a company whose entire business is the replacement of fluids and other maintenance, one doesn't pretend they are completely objective in their recommendations on this topic.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top