Recent Topics
plated cylinder liners and sulphur
by alex_at - 02/25/20 12:31 PM
Have we reached the ceiling in improvents to PCMO?
by Speak2Mountain - 02/25/20 11:59 AM
International travel for pleasure
by Pew - 02/25/20 11:42 AM
maxi scooter - should i change the oil now?
by alex_at - 02/25/20 11:05 AM
Toyota NA vs Toyota Global...
by mv6845 - 02/25/20 10:11 AM
How to determine Group II, III or IV
by Drew7a - 02/25/20 09:41 AM
Pulling axle question
by supton - 02/25/20 07:50 AM
Sams Club gas
by dbvettez061 - 02/25/20 07:44 AM
2019 Ram Battery Issue
by NYEngineer - 02/25/20 06:00 AM
belt squeaking suddenly
by dogememe - 02/24/20 11:45 PM
Is Mobil 1 advanced synthetic a full synthetic?
by apollo18 - 02/24/20 11:08 PM
what stocks to buy?
by daves66nova - 02/24/20 08:55 PM
I thought Windows 7 would be insecure now?
by atikovi - 02/24/20 08:48 PM
When to replace struts
by ram_man - 02/24/20 08:40 PM
Fluid Film + Cayenne Pepper
by pitzel - 02/24/20 05:22 PM
Ford Focus RS Oil Advice!
by fastsvo - 02/24/20 04:23 PM
Cleanest wheels on same axle or same side of car?
by atikovi - 02/24/20 04:13 PM
Mixing 2 stroke oils
by Hirev - 02/24/20 03:57 PM
Newest Members
EarlT500, Newbie111, Boris_Be, NHR, zip15
70798 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
99 registered members (b1amgm47, 1978elcamino, aquariuscsm, alex_at, A_User55555, AndyB, 7 invisible), 2,534 guests, and 16 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics301,907
Posts5,205,175
Members70,798
Most Online4,538
Jan 20th, 2020
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
BMW ATF Lifetime Fluid #5189280 08/17/19 04:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 626
P
Patrick0525 Offline OP
OP Offline
P
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 626
Applies to all manufactures that market artificially low maintenance costs. I lost count number of times work colleagues who refused a fluid replacement based on their manufacturers’ maintenance schedule timeline. ie Toyota doesn’t have it as scheduled item.

To my work colleagues: “Get Real!”

40-50K mi is the recommended ATF OCI for non-towing applications.

BMW ATF


2014 Toyota Venza 2GR-FE 96K mi
2009 Lexus ES350 2GR-FE 49K mi
Fram Ultra filter XG9972
TGMO or Idemitsu Zepro 0w20 (winter)
PP 0w20 (spring/summer/fall)


Re: BMW ATF Lifetime Fluid [Re: Patrick0525] #5189294 08/17/19 05:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 33,987
D
demarpaint Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 33,987
EXACTLY! LOL The auto manufacturer and engineers know best. I read that a lot here. I wonder whose lifetime they're referring to, the lifetime of the car owner, or the lifetime of the warranty.

Last edited by Kestas; 08/17/19 08:13 AM. Reason: No need to completely quote the first post in the second post.

God Bless Our Troops

Re: BMW ATF Lifetime Fluid [Re: demarpaint] #5189295 08/17/19 05:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,969
L
LotI Offline
Offline
L
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,969
The lifetime of the transmission. When the tranny fails, it’s life is over. Pretty simple, replace it with your own money, not the OEM’s.

Last edited by Kestas; 08/17/19 08:14 AM. Reason: No need to completely quote the first and second post in the third post.

03 Honda Interceptor
11 Kawasaki KLR 650
12 Ford E450 Cutaway
19 Buick Regal TourX
Retired:
17 VW GTI
17 Mazda6 GT
14 Honda Accord Sport
Re: BMW ATF Lifetime Fluid [Re: Patrick0525] #5189297 08/17/19 05:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,078
A
Audios Offline
Offline
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,078
Watched this last night, ZF loves saying BMW is wrong.

https://youtu.be/D0f3AYoE3cI


2002 VW Golf TDI-T5 10/30
2007 Mercedes GL320 CDI-T6 5/40
2005 BMW M3 BMW-Twin Power 10/60
2003 BMW M5-M1 15/50
1998 BMW M3/4/5-M1 10/40
Re: BMW ATF Lifetime Fluid [Re: Audios] #5189309 08/17/19 06:13 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,381
M
mcrn Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,381
Originally Posted by Audios
Watched this last night, ZF loves saying BMW is wrong.

https://youtu.be/D0f3AYoE3cI

Exactly!


2012 Nissan Rogue
Re: BMW ATF Lifetime Fluid [Re: Patrick0525] #5189353 08/17/19 07:21 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,730
SubieRubyRoo Offline
Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,730
There is HUGE money to be made on the service side by doing extensive MTTF testing on all components and systems, and making sure 95%+ of that item makes it just past the warranty term and then fails.

Do you really think it's coincidence when you buy an item with a 2-year warranty and it fails at ~26 months? That means a good failure analysis was conducted and the warranty term was properly specified to ensure minimal costs for the manufacturer, and maximum market exposure to repeat customers replacing the failures. IMHO any "lifetime" item you can expect to fail shortly after the written warranty expires if you haven't yet done maintenance on it. But if you care for the machinery like you expect it to last YOUR lifetime, it will most always last longer than those who believe the manufacturer's "lifetime" expectation.


De omnibus dubitandum.
Re: BMW ATF Lifetime Fluid [Re: Patrick0525] #5189433 08/17/19 08:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,550
K
Kestas Offline
Global Moderator
Offline
Global Moderator
K
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,550
Every time I query the masses, the common belief is that transmission fluid is indeed filled-for-life. This is an uphill battle for us to educate the public.

I work with transmission and power takeoff unit designers, where my job is to determine why bearings fail. Usually the root cause is excessive debris denting. Every opportunity I get, I try to convince them to incorporate at least one fluid change around 30K to 40K to get rid of break-in debris, as Mercedes did when they modified their fill-for-life stance. Their answer is to force all suppliers to guarantee a maximum level of cleanliness in their parts for production. This ignores the debris that is generated during break-in. It also forces bearing manufacturers to supercharge their material. No real estate is given to make bearings bigger.

I understand their position, because the motoring public doesn't want to hear that they have to spend an afternoon taking their car in and spend $200+ on a perfectly good working car for this service, especially when the competitor doesn't require it. This fill-for-life is now engrained into the motoring public's minds.

This means that only us enthusiasts and other people who have critical thinking skills will be changing transmission fluid (if these other people can convince their dealers to do so.... another uphill task).

Re: BMW ATF Lifetime Fluid [Re: Kestas] #5189458 08/17/19 09:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,200
J
JeffKeryk Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,200
Originally Posted by Kestas
Every time I query the masses, the common belief is that transmission fluid is indeed filled-for-life. This is an uphill battle for us to educate the public.

I work with transmission and power takeoff unit designers, where my job is to determine why bearings fail. Usually the root cause is excessive debris denting. Every opportunity I get, I try to convince them to incorporate at least one fluid change around 30K to 40K to get rid of break-in debris, as Mercedes did when they modified their fill-for-life stance. Their answer is to force all suppliers to guarantee a maximum level of cleanliness in their parts for production. This ignores the debris that is generated during break-in. It also forces bearing manufacturers to supercharge their material. No real estate is given to make bearings bigger.

I understand their position, because the motoring public doesn't want to hear that they have to spend an afternoon taking their car in and spend $200+ on a perfectly good working car for this service, especially when the competitor doesn't require it. This fill-for-life is now engrained into the motoring public's minds.

This means that only us enthusiasts and other people who have critical thinking skills will be changing transmission fluid (if these other people can convince their dealers to do so.... another uphill task).


Outstanding.
It kills me when Lexus claims lifetime fluid. I can guarantee you our Toyota cars will have regular transmission service.


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
Re: BMW ATF Lifetime Fluid [Re: Kestas] #5189491 08/17/19 10:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,997
bdcardinal Offline
Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,997
Originally Posted by Kestas
Every time I query the masses, the common belief is that transmission fluid is indeed filled-for-life. This is an uphill battle for us to educate the public.

I work with transmission and power takeoff unit designers, where my job is to determine why bearings fail. Usually the root cause is excessive debris denting. Every opportunity I get, I try to convince them to incorporate at least one fluid change around 30K to 40K to get rid of break-in debris, as Mercedes did when they modified their fill-for-life stance. Their answer is to force all suppliers to guarantee a maximum level of cleanliness in their parts for production. This ignores the debris that is generated during break-in. It also forces bearing manufacturers to supercharge their material. No real estate is given to make bearings bigger.

I understand their position, because the motoring public doesn't want to hear that they have to spend an afternoon taking their car in and spend $200+ on a perfectly good working car for this service, especially when the competitor doesn't require it. This fill-for-life is now engrained into the motoring public's minds.

This means that only us enthusiasts and other people who have critical thinking skills will be changing transmission fluid (if these other people can convince their dealers to do so.... another uphill task).


I always assumed this was the case. That is why when I bought my Mustang, the trans and diff fluids were changes at 5K miles.


2014 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack
1995 Ford Mustang GT

Ford/Mazda Parts Counter
NRA Benefactor Member
Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: BMW ATF Lifetime Fluid [Re: Audios] #5189506 08/17/19 10:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 928
L
loneryder Online Content
Online Content
L
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 928
Originally Posted by Audios
Watched this last night, ZF loves saying BMW is wrong.

https://youtu.be/D0f3AYoE3cI

Interesting comment about better mileage after a trans service.
The key to this being easy is having a lift, which most of us don't.

Re: BMW ATF Lifetime Fluid [Re: Patrick0525] #5189536 08/17/19 11:13 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,151
B
benjy Online Content
Online Content
B
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,151
DIY can pay for a lift over time, but a decent floor jack + jack stands are all thats needed. todays government allows crazy claims + lets big $$$ manufactures get away with murder so to speak. big drug + food is bad or worse!

Re: BMW ATF Lifetime Fluid [Re: bdcardinal] #5189578 08/17/19 12:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 33,987
D
demarpaint Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 33,987
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
I always assumed this was the case. That is why when I bought my Mustang, the trans and diff fluids were changes at 5K miles.

Smart move. You beat me. I did mine at 10K miles.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: BMW ATF Lifetime Fluid [Re: Patrick0525] #5189639 08/17/19 01:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 98
T
twoheeldrive Offline
Offline
T
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 98
2001 BMW 525i, 178,000 miles. I purchased it in 2004. It was the wife's daily driver for many years and then got passed down to the kids (but is back "home" now). It still has the same lifetime fluid from ZF it came from the factory with and shifts and drives exactly the same as always. Don't know what will go first, the engine or trans... but whichever it is... that will be the end of life for this car.


... using Mobil 1 since 1976.
Re: BMW ATF Lifetime Fluid [Re: Audios] #5189662 08/17/19 02:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 98
T
twoheeldrive Offline
Offline
T
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 98
... and ZF is just mad because BMW is not selling their oil. ZF makes a lot of money selling their over priced oil and filters. No wonder they are pushing for frequent service.


Last edited by twoheeldrive; 08/17/19 02:18 PM.

... using Mobil 1 since 1976.
Re: BMW ATF Lifetime Fluid [Re: demarpaint] #5189668 08/17/19 02:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,997
bdcardinal Offline
Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,997
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
I always assumed this was the case. That is why when I bought my Mustang, the trans and diff fluids were changes at 5K miles.

Smart move. You beat me. I did mine at 10K miles.


It was the first oil change. I used a lift at work. It was nice having drain and fill plugs from the factory on the diff.


2014 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack
1995 Ford Mustang GT

Ford/Mazda Parts Counter
NRA Benefactor Member
Opinions expressed are my own.
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™