Car salesmen need to go....
- Thread starter buster
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Perhaps, but I have no illusions they are working for me. They may be my agent in the transaction, but the check they take home on payday doesn't come from me. I know it, the salesman knows it.
Sure, they don't get paid if I don't buy, that's true, but their job is to often size me up so more operations in the car selling factory, like the F&I office can figure out if they can get even more from me.
I usually come in with a decent idea what I'm willing to pay and what cars are going for. I negotiate ONE number, the OTD figure at the bottom of the deal. If I have a trade, I make it clear that I am talking about the size of the check I write to take home the car today.
I come with financing already arranged if I need it, and if they want to try to get a better rate, I'm willing to entertain what they are offering.
I'm not interested in gap insurance, extended warranties, etc, as if the car isn't going to last 5 years or 125k miles, I should probably not be buying it.
If one has reasonable expectations and does a modest amount of homework, the experience is not horrible.
Sure, they don't get paid if I don't buy, that's true, but their job is to often size me up so more operations in the car selling factory, like the F&I office can figure out if they can get even more from me.
I usually come in with a decent idea what I'm willing to pay and what cars are going for. I negotiate ONE number, the OTD figure at the bottom of the deal. If I have a trade, I make it clear that I am talking about the size of the check I write to take home the car today.
I come with financing already arranged if I need it, and if they want to try to get a better rate, I'm willing to entertain what they are offering.
I'm not interested in gap insurance, extended warranties, etc, as if the car isn't going to last 5 years or 125k miles, I should probably not be buying it.
If one has reasonable expectations and does a modest amount of homework, the experience is not horrible.
Originally Posted by SevenBizzos
Not that my opinion matters. But I find everyone involved in the traditional car buying process is there putting on a show.
This quote is probably the one I would be paying tge most attention to so far in this thread. I think there are many distinct similarities between car sales, stage acting, politics, and pro wrestling,
Not that my opinion matters. But I find everyone involved in the traditional car buying process is there putting on a show.
This quote is probably the one I would be paying tge most attention to so far in this thread. I think there are many distinct similarities between car sales, stage acting, politics, and pro wrestling,
Originally Posted by fisher83
It's not an easy business by any means. I sold for 2 years. I did a combination of new Chevy/Cadillac and used of all brands. I averaged 8-12 cars per month. The first year I made about $27,000 and the second year about $35,000. This was working 50-70 hours per week with many of the deals paying a minimum $100.00 commission. My most successful month I made about $6000.00 and many months as little as $1200. A significant portion of your time is wasted with buyers who can't qualify for financing, have unrealistic expectations, or a myriad of other issues that prevent a deal from working out. They say 10% of the people make 90% of the money in car sales and I would say that was pretty accurate. Once I was ready to start a family I got out of that business and never looked back.
As a benchmark, at today's minimum wage which is nearing $30,000 per year for a 40 hour week ($15 per hour for a 2,000 hour year), you were making less. Yet the ownership at most dealers expect quite a bit more than your average teenage burger flipper can give them.
It's not an easy business by any means. I sold for 2 years. I did a combination of new Chevy/Cadillac and used of all brands. I averaged 8-12 cars per month. The first year I made about $27,000 and the second year about $35,000. This was working 50-70 hours per week with many of the deals paying a minimum $100.00 commission. My most successful month I made about $6000.00 and many months as little as $1200. A significant portion of your time is wasted with buyers who can't qualify for financing, have unrealistic expectations, or a myriad of other issues that prevent a deal from working out. They say 10% of the people make 90% of the money in car sales and I would say that was pretty accurate. Once I was ready to start a family I got out of that business and never looked back.
As a benchmark, at today's minimum wage which is nearing $30,000 per year for a 40 hour week ($15 per hour for a 2,000 hour year), you were making less. Yet the ownership at most dealers expect quite a bit more than your average teenage burger flipper can give them.
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Originally Posted by buster
They are useless. The entire car buying process is a joke. Cars should be a set price and the only variable at play should be the financing rate due to different credit scores. It's 2019 and we have the internet, not encyclopedia Britannica. I've never met a car salesman that knew more than I did going in to buy a car, and I'm not saying that in an arrogant manner. Point is, the information is available. They serve no purpose but to harass and act like intermediary dope between you and the overweight finance guy. I don't need someone to tell me the car has 4 wheels and a rear view mirror.
Why would a car salesman know more about the one car you've spend countless hours researching whereas he has 10 or more models each with various trims, engines, transmissions which change on an almost yearly basis? Oh and don't give me the "it's their job" BS.
Now the only annoyance I've had is that the dealers in my area are more than fine with letting a customer walk because demand is so high.
They are useless. The entire car buying process is a joke. Cars should be a set price and the only variable at play should be the financing rate due to different credit scores. It's 2019 and we have the internet, not encyclopedia Britannica. I've never met a car salesman that knew more than I did going in to buy a car, and I'm not saying that in an arrogant manner. Point is, the information is available. They serve no purpose but to harass and act like intermediary dope between you and the overweight finance guy. I don't need someone to tell me the car has 4 wheels and a rear view mirror.
Why would a car salesman know more about the one car you've spend countless hours researching whereas he has 10 or more models each with various trims, engines, transmissions which change on an almost yearly basis? Oh and don't give me the "it's their job" BS.
Now the only annoyance I've had is that the dealers in my area are more than fine with letting a customer walk because demand is so high.
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Originally Posted by LotI
I bought a new car last week and had a wonderful experience...best ever. Yes, I knew more about the car than the salesman but it's a low-volume car, not a pickem'-up truck.
Here's how it went:
I learned when picking up the car that the sales staff is 100% commission and the $500 additional discount didn't come out of his pay. Good on them.
I would recommend this dealer to anyone in this area. Please PM if in So. WI. No wonder I see their ID sticker on the back of cars hundreds of miles away from the town.
In all honesty-that car is an albatross and they were probably very happy some one took it off their hands. You won't have the same sales process (normally) buying a $50,000.00 pickup.
I bought a new car last week and had a wonderful experience...best ever. Yes, I knew more about the car than the salesman but it's a low-volume car, not a pickem'-up truck.
Here's how it went:
Walk into dealer and say I want to test drive a Regal TourX to the sales manager. Somebody went out and grabbed the car while I used the bathroom.
A Salesman hands me the keys and lets me go...no asking for a DL, no asking to ride along. "here you go, any questions?"
I return and say thanks and give the keys back. He thanks me and that's it.
A day later, I emailed the owner and asked what his best price was. The internet price was low aleady but he wants to move the cars...so anyone I want from the lot minus an additional $500. They were already less than other dealers based on my research and the money on the hood was all there. They had nearly the perfect configuration.
Asked the salesperson to send me a copy of the paperwork so I can review and get to my bank. My bank cuts a check, I show up and give it to the F&I guy and he says "thank you". I was in and out of his office in 5 minutes. I was shocked because every other car purchase took HOURS to get through the BS.
NO hard sell, no extended warranty pitch, no GM finance BS. Nothing. I was supposed to provide proof of owning a competing brand for the "conquest" cash but they didn't ask.
A Salesman hands me the keys and lets me go...no asking for a DL, no asking to ride along. "here you go, any questions?"
I return and say thanks and give the keys back. He thanks me and that's it.
A day later, I emailed the owner and asked what his best price was. The internet price was low aleady but he wants to move the cars...so anyone I want from the lot minus an additional $500. They were already less than other dealers based on my research and the money on the hood was all there. They had nearly the perfect configuration.
Asked the salesperson to send me a copy of the paperwork so I can review and get to my bank. My bank cuts a check, I show up and give it to the F&I guy and he says "thank you". I was in and out of his office in 5 minutes. I was shocked because every other car purchase took HOURS to get through the BS.
NO hard sell, no extended warranty pitch, no GM finance BS. Nothing. I was supposed to provide proof of owning a competing brand for the "conquest" cash but they didn't ask.
I learned when picking up the car that the sales staff is 100% commission and the $500 additional discount didn't come out of his pay. Good on them.
I would recommend this dealer to anyone in this area. Please PM if in So. WI. No wonder I see their ID sticker on the back of cars hundreds of miles away from the town.
In all honesty-that car is an albatross and they were probably very happy some one took it off their hands. You won't have the same sales process (normally) buying a $50,000.00 pickup.
Originally Posted by buster
Why should one have to negotiate to buy a car? Just asking.
No one has to negotiate to buy a car. Just be willing to pay list price plus dealer PACs, doc fees, and anything else they decide to make up.
Why should one have to negotiate to buy a car? Just asking.
No one has to negotiate to buy a car. Just be willing to pay list price plus dealer PACs, doc fees, and anything else they decide to make up.
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by buster
They are useless. The entire car buying process is a joke. Cars should be a set price and the only variable at play should be the financing rate due to different credit scores. It's 2019 and we have the internet, not encyclopedia Britannica. I've never met a car salesman that knew more than I did going in to buy a car, and I'm not saying that in an arrogant manner. Point is, the information is available. They serve no purpose but to harass and act like intermediary dope between you and the overweight finance guy. I don't need someone to tell me the car has 4 wheels and a rear view mirror.
Why would a car salesman know more about the one car you've spend countless hours researching whereas he has 10 or more models each with various trims, engines, transmissions which change on an almost yearly basis? Oh and don't give me the "it's their job" BS.
Now the only annoyance I've had is that the dealers in my area are more than fine with letting a customer walk because demand is so high.
1. The person who is most responsible for training me to become successful in the car business may be the most car stupid person I have ever met, he is now a manager at one of the top Subaru dealerships in the country and he is doing crazy business and making a lot of money.
You don't need to know anything about cars to be successful in the car business, in fact being knowledgeable can be quite the hindrance. I submit to you that building good healthy relationships is the key, be it in business or in life in general.
2. Perhaps demand is not so high as much as it is that no one in business should be desperate for business. So many people I have dealt with have an attitude walking in the door that I have an obligation to be a doormat that should be begging to meet their demands. Business occurs when two parties agree to terms, it is never a one-way street .
That being said I will admit that for certain brands there tends to be a steady stream of interest in their products so as long as the businesses selling their products can keep their customers happy success will likely be ensured.
Originally Posted by buster
Why should one have to negotiate to buy a car? Just asking.
No one has to, buying a car can be as easy as buying a gallon of milk. Whether the gallon of milk is $3 or the car is $30,000 upon the business and the customer coming to a purchase agreement the sale will commence.
Originally Posted by buster
They are useless. The entire car buying process is a joke. Cars should be a set price and the only variable at play should be the financing rate due to different credit scores. It's 2019 and we have the internet, not encyclopedia Britannica. I've never met a car salesman that knew more than I did going in to buy a car, and I'm not saying that in an arrogant manner. Point is, the information is available. They serve no purpose but to harass and act like intermediary dope between you and the overweight finance guy. I don't need someone to tell me the car has 4 wheels and a rear view mirror.
Why would a car salesman know more about the one car you've spend countless hours researching whereas he has 10 or more models each with various trims, engines, transmissions which change on an almost yearly basis? Oh and don't give me the "it's their job" BS.
Now the only annoyance I've had is that the dealers in my area are more than fine with letting a customer walk because demand is so high.
1. The person who is most responsible for training me to become successful in the car business may be the most car stupid person I have ever met, he is now a manager at one of the top Subaru dealerships in the country and he is doing crazy business and making a lot of money.
You don't need to know anything about cars to be successful in the car business, in fact being knowledgeable can be quite the hindrance. I submit to you that building good healthy relationships is the key, be it in business or in life in general.
2. Perhaps demand is not so high as much as it is that no one in business should be desperate for business. So many people I have dealt with have an attitude walking in the door that I have an obligation to be a doormat that should be begging to meet their demands. Business occurs when two parties agree to terms, it is never a one-way street .
That being said I will admit that for certain brands there tends to be a steady stream of interest in their products so as long as the businesses selling their products can keep their customers happy success will likely be ensured.
Originally Posted by buster
Why should one have to negotiate to buy a car? Just asking.
No one has to, buying a car can be as easy as buying a gallon of milk. Whether the gallon of milk is $3 or the car is $30,000 upon the business and the customer coming to a purchase agreement the sale will commence.
Originally Posted by buster
Why should one have to negotiate to buy a car? Just asking.
Crony capitalism (aka, State Franchise Laws).
Why should one have to negotiate to buy a car? Just asking.
Crony capitalism (aka, State Franchise Laws).
Originally Posted by mk378
Buyers feel like they've won something negotiating the price. "Here's the price, take it or leave it" only works if every other seller is the same way.
Then there are people like me who buy a car and keep if fifteen years because they hate the stupid haggling nonsense so much.
Buyers feel like they've won something negotiating the price. "Here's the price, take it or leave it" only works if every other seller is the same way.
Then there are people like me who buy a car and keep if fifteen years because they hate the stupid haggling nonsense so much.
I've rarely had a truly bad experience with a used car salesman. My first wife dealt with the dealer when she bought the '75 Maverick; my '65 Mercury came from a private seller; Wife No. 2 had most of the interaction with the dealer for my '84 Escort.
The silver Olds Cutlass in 1991, well, that wasn't so hot; their idea of "service after the sale" was a bottle of touch-up paint. But the car was a good one.
The golden Olds, the dark blue and the dark gray Mercedes, and the gold Mercedes, all good experiences. So were the purchases of the Park Avenue and the Regal. The BMW purchasing experience was very quick and pleasant, and so was the recent experience with the Subaru dealer who sold me the LaCrosse.
It's possible that my experiences have gone well because I'm prepared when I walk in, I'm sure the car is a pretty fair price and one I'm comfortable with, and my attitude is not adversarial. I know they have to make some money on the deal. They normally don't press me about paint or upholstery protection, they mention extended warranty and I decline, and that's pretty much it. I don't expect them to sell me a $40,000 car for $20,000, and I won't pay $40K for a car that my research says should be going at $20K.
The silver Olds Cutlass in 1991, well, that wasn't so hot; their idea of "service after the sale" was a bottle of touch-up paint. But the car was a good one.
The golden Olds, the dark blue and the dark gray Mercedes, and the gold Mercedes, all good experiences. So were the purchases of the Park Avenue and the Regal. The BMW purchasing experience was very quick and pleasant, and so was the recent experience with the Subaru dealer who sold me the LaCrosse.
It's possible that my experiences have gone well because I'm prepared when I walk in, I'm sure the car is a pretty fair price and one I'm comfortable with, and my attitude is not adversarial. I know they have to make some money on the deal. They normally don't press me about paint or upholstery protection, they mention extended warranty and I decline, and that's pretty much it. I don't expect them to sell me a $40,000 car for $20,000, and I won't pay $40K for a car that my research says should be going at $20K.
I kind of dig the car buying process. More so the research and search for the vehicle rather than the dealer portion of it, but I go into the dealer portion with very low expectations. I already have my vehicle zeroed in. I couldn't care less who the dealer is.
There's been times I've been annoyed by the dealer process for sure and I'm sure ALL auto manufacturers salivate at the thought of selling direct, but there's just too many people, businesses and organizations dependent on the current process.
How to make that all go away I have no clue.
There's been times I've been annoyed by the dealer process for sure and I'm sure ALL auto manufacturers salivate at the thought of selling direct, but there's just too many people, businesses and organizations dependent on the current process.
How to make that all go away I have no clue.
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Originally Posted by buster
Why should one have to negotiate to buy a car? Just asking.
The same reason why dealers can charge markups on popular vehicles. They maybe be willing to let some ff those wagons go at invoice price if they know they can markup that new vette and get that one person to bite to bullet for 4-5 above average deals.
Why should one have to negotiate to buy a car? Just asking.
The same reason why dealers can charge markups on popular vehicles. They maybe be willing to let some ff those wagons go at invoice price if they know they can markup that new vette and get that one person to bite to bullet for 4-5 above average deals.
Originally Posted by buster
Why should one have to negotiate to buy a car? Just asking.
You don't have to negotiate. Sticker's quicker.
If you think consumers win when dealers have "no-haggle" pricing, you're wrong.
Why should one have to negotiate to buy a car? Just asking.
You don't have to negotiate. Sticker's quicker.
If you think consumers win when dealers have "no-haggle" pricing, you're wrong.
You can buy thru the internet sales department.
My father used email with finalizing on phone to buy his 2015 Outback and did little visiting of 4 dealerships. He is 78 years old.
My father used email with finalizing on phone to buy his 2015 Outback and did little visiting of 4 dealerships. He is 78 years old.
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
You don't have to negotiate. Sticker's quicker.
Then you get to feel ripped off every time you get in the car for the next ten years.
Seriously, is there any other form of retail which does its best to make the buyer feel ripped off even before they take their purchase home?
You don't have to negotiate. Sticker's quicker.
Then you get to feel ripped off every time you get in the car for the next ten years.
Seriously, is there any other form of retail which does its best to make the buyer feel ripped off even before they take their purchase home?
Car salesmen are very useful. They're the guys who really need you to complete the sale and you shuttle them back and forth between you and the new car sales manager. You never need to negotiate with a salesmen but only tell him what you'll pay.
The fixed price model has not worked well where tried since savvy buyers end up taking their money elsewhere.
Nothing really wrong with the current dealer sales model. It is one that allows the savvy buyer to get a real deal and doing that takes no time at all, only a knowledge of what a good price is.
When we bought the Accord Hybrid, we paid well below Truecar/Costco/Sam's Club pricing and we were in and out in less than two hours.
That we planned our visit for a dead Friday morning at the end of the month probably helped as well.
The fixed price model has not worked well where tried since savvy buyers end up taking their money elsewhere.
Nothing really wrong with the current dealer sales model. It is one that allows the savvy buyer to get a real deal and doing that takes no time at all, only a knowledge of what a good price is.
When we bought the Accord Hybrid, we paid well below Truecar/Costco/Sam's Club pricing and we were in and out in less than two hours.
That we planned our visit for a dead Friday morning at the end of the month probably helped as well.
The last two new cars i purchased i knew exactly what i wanted even without test driving anything. I searched within 500 miles and purchased both out of state. One i had shipped to me, one i traveled to buy. The Car dealers in Utah are useless to me and charge a lot more. I probably won't need/want any more cars anytime soon but i would really get behind a manufacturer direct internet buying experience.
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