I guess this is a defense of car salespeople but it's just an observation. I may be right or wrong, partially right/wrong.... 1) There is huge turnover in this industry so it's hard for them to learn plus they probably aren't as motivated to learn about the models as they are for selling them. 2) At new car dealers, almost every one sells used cars too and I think that in the past, you had salespeople who only sold new cars and another group that only sold used cars. Nowadays, at least what I've seen, they sell both. Worse, and this may not apply everywhere, salespeople have to sell from different brands. Ran into this with my Mom when she was buying her new CR-V recently. The salesman showed her CR-Vs as well as RAV4s.
Car salesmen need to go....
- Thread starter buster
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted by buster
They are useless. The entire car buying process is a joke. Cars should be a set price and the only variable at play should be the financing rate due to different credit scores. It's 2019 and we have the internet, not encyclopedia Britannica. I've never met a car salesman that knew more than I did going in to buy a car, and I'm not saying that in an arrogant manner. Point is, the information is available. They serve no purpose but to harass and act like intermediary dope between you and the overweight finance guy. I don't need someone to tell me the car has 4 wheels and a rear view mirror.
IIRC you started two threads on midsize trucks recently and bought a new Nissan Frontier last week. Why all the anger against car sales people? Buyers remorse already?
They are useless. The entire car buying process is a joke. Cars should be a set price and the only variable at play should be the financing rate due to different credit scores. It's 2019 and we have the internet, not encyclopedia Britannica. I've never met a car salesman that knew more than I did going in to buy a car, and I'm not saying that in an arrogant manner. Point is, the information is available. They serve no purpose but to harass and act like intermediary dope between you and the overweight finance guy. I don't need someone to tell me the car has 4 wheels and a rear view mirror.
IIRC you started two threads on midsize trucks recently and bought a new Nissan Frontier last week. Why all the anger against car sales people? Buyers remorse already?
For most salesman it's just another job. They could just as well be selling mattresses or carpet.
It's not an easy business by any means. I sold for 2 years. I did a combination of new Chevy/Cadillac and used of all brands. I averaged 8-12 cars per month. The first year I made about $27,000 and the second year about $35,000. This was working 50-70 hours per week with many of the deals paying a minimum $100.00 commission. My most successful month I made about $6000.00 and many months as little as $1200. A significant portion of your time is wasted with buyers who can't qualify for financing, have unrealistic expectations, or a myriad of other issues that prevent a deal from working out. They say 10% of the people make 90% of the money in car sales and I would say that was pretty accurate. Once I was ready to start a family I got out of that business and never looked back.
Originally Posted by gman2304
Originally Posted by buster
They are useless. The entire car buying process is a joke. Cars should be a set price and the only variable at play should be the financing rate due to different credit scores. It's 2019 and we have the internet, not encyclopedia Britannica. I've never met a car salesman that knew more than I did going in to buy a car, and I'm not saying that in an arrogant manner. Point is, the information is available. They serve no purpose but to harass and act like intermediary dope between you and the overweight finance guy. I don't need someone to tell me the car has 4 wheels and a rear view mirror.
IIRC you started two threads on midsize trucks recently and bought a new Nissan Frontier last week. Why all the anger against car sales people? Buyers remorse already?
No not at all. The guy I worked with was decent, but he didn't have to do anything. I just think the process would be better without them.
Originally Posted by buster
They are useless. The entire car buying process is a joke. Cars should be a set price and the only variable at play should be the financing rate due to different credit scores. It's 2019 and we have the internet, not encyclopedia Britannica. I've never met a car salesman that knew more than I did going in to buy a car, and I'm not saying that in an arrogant manner. Point is, the information is available. They serve no purpose but to harass and act like intermediary dope between you and the overweight finance guy. I don't need someone to tell me the car has 4 wheels and a rear view mirror.
IIRC you started two threads on midsize trucks recently and bought a new Nissan Frontier last week. Why all the anger against car sales people? Buyers remorse already?
No not at all. The guy I worked with was decent, but he didn't have to do anything. I just think the process would be better without them.
Originally Posted by Ignatius
Over the past 3 years I was one of the top Subaru salesmen in the country working at two different dealerships in two different regions, I have also worked at two other dealerships for GM and Chrysler. You can complain all you want about salesmen (PC salespeople) but being someone who has not only sold cars with great success at two dealerships as well as sold at a dealership that went out of business and has also been a car buyer of several new cars I can tell you that many customers make the process as difficult as possible ON THEMSELVES and then complain about everything under the sun instead of taking responsibility for what they have chosen to do.
I run SubaruOutback.org and among the most popular discussions we've ever had on the site have been my threads on the car business in which I speak from my perspective from being in the business and as a customer. Most of the stuff I read from "expert car buyers" is pure rubbish, also most of the complainers are people who make things hard on themselves. I prefer to do things quickly and easily because it is not only YOUR money but also MY livelihood and I don't want to waste your time or my own. Among the top issues I have run into are people who do not value their time and are willing to spend excessive amounts of time AND MONEY in vain efforts to "save" money in a car deal. Many end up spending more money through their time wasting that they believe they'll end up saving. If you have a problem with the car business and you can figure out how you may be doing that you'll probably end up doing well for yourself and also by whoever you end up doing business with.
Not that my opinion matters. But I find everyone involved in the traditional car buying process is there putting on a show.
Buyers put on the "I'm not here to buy a car today" show when if they weren't about to buy they wouldn't be there. Then there's the buyers that think dealer markup is 100% and they should automatically get 49% off for just walking into the dealership (that they weren't planning on buying from in the first pace). Then there's the "pump fake" leaving but not really. It's all silly. The best part is when buyer brag about taking six hours to buy a car. What a waste of valuable time.
Salesman aren't as dumb as they show. I think they know off the bat what that car is going to sell for (when it does). All the time with the "sales manager" is just to try to get more commission. They have families to feed. I think they know if you're buying or not. They do this for a living.
Managers are all over the place. I love the act like they probably shouldn't have sold you a car for that price. The other one is challenging me to get a car for less than their best price and then bring them the offer. What the heck is that? If someone wants to sell me the exact same car for less, why would I come back here? (The car I bought took six emails back and forth. Total time on both sides was less than 15 minutes)
My last experience had all of those. Listing a car that a a price that was not possible (really, the manufacturer would not let all those discounts apply on one vehicle. Computers would block certain discounts). A sales manager that not only insulted me about my car (telling me "you'll never get more than $3900 for this", when it took me all of three days of listing to sell it for $4700.), acting like I'm the dumb one in their pricing scam, trying to have me buy something I told them I wasn't interested in, and then issuing their challenge to beat their price, which I easily did elsewhere. No business is run like this.
The car sales business is the biggest reason that Car Max has flourished. It's a better (yet more expensive) way to buy a car, and way less insulting to both sides.
Over the past 3 years I was one of the top Subaru salesmen in the country working at two different dealerships in two different regions, I have also worked at two other dealerships for GM and Chrysler. You can complain all you want about salesmen (PC salespeople) but being someone who has not only sold cars with great success at two dealerships as well as sold at a dealership that went out of business and has also been a car buyer of several new cars I can tell you that many customers make the process as difficult as possible ON THEMSELVES and then complain about everything under the sun instead of taking responsibility for what they have chosen to do.
I run SubaruOutback.org and among the most popular discussions we've ever had on the site have been my threads on the car business in which I speak from my perspective from being in the business and as a customer. Most of the stuff I read from "expert car buyers" is pure rubbish, also most of the complainers are people who make things hard on themselves. I prefer to do things quickly and easily because it is not only YOUR money but also MY livelihood and I don't want to waste your time or my own. Among the top issues I have run into are people who do not value their time and are willing to spend excessive amounts of time AND MONEY in vain efforts to "save" money in a car deal. Many end up spending more money through their time wasting that they believe they'll end up saving. If you have a problem with the car business and you can figure out how you may be doing that you'll probably end up doing well for yourself and also by whoever you end up doing business with.
Not that my opinion matters. But I find everyone involved in the traditional car buying process is there putting on a show.
Buyers put on the "I'm not here to buy a car today" show when if they weren't about to buy they wouldn't be there. Then there's the buyers that think dealer markup is 100% and they should automatically get 49% off for just walking into the dealership (that they weren't planning on buying from in the first pace). Then there's the "pump fake" leaving but not really. It's all silly. The best part is when buyer brag about taking six hours to buy a car. What a waste of valuable time.
Salesman aren't as dumb as they show. I think they know off the bat what that car is going to sell for (when it does). All the time with the "sales manager" is just to try to get more commission. They have families to feed. I think they know if you're buying or not. They do this for a living.
Managers are all over the place. I love the act like they probably shouldn't have sold you a car for that price. The other one is challenging me to get a car for less than their best price and then bring them the offer. What the heck is that? If someone wants to sell me the exact same car for less, why would I come back here? (The car I bought took six emails back and forth. Total time on both sides was less than 15 minutes)
My last experience had all of those. Listing a car that a a price that was not possible (really, the manufacturer would not let all those discounts apply on one vehicle. Computers would block certain discounts). A sales manager that not only insulted me about my car (telling me "you'll never get more than $3900 for this", when it took me all of three days of listing to sell it for $4700.), acting like I'm the dumb one in their pricing scam, trying to have me buy something I told them I wasn't interested in, and then issuing their challenge to beat their price, which I easily did elsewhere. No business is run like this.
The car sales business is the biggest reason that Car Max has flourished. It's a better (yet more expensive) way to buy a car, and way less insulting to both sides.
One used car dealer would not sell me a car we wanted unless we financed it there. I said it would be a cash sale and the salesman just stopped talking so I walked. At another dealership saw what we wanted noticed a small fresh dent on front fender and went inside and said I would like a test drive, manager said sure just let me copy your license and insurance. I said thats not going to happen and walked again. All other experiences have been mostly fine but I will not be bulldozed.
Originally Posted by buster
They are useless. The entire car buying process is a joke. Cars should be a set price and the only variable at play should be the financing rate due to different credit scores. It's 2019 and we have the internet, not encyclopedia Britannica. I've never met a car salesman that knew more than I did going in to buy a car, and I'm not saying that in an arrogant manner. Point is, the information is available. They serve no purpose but to harass and act like intermediary dope between you and the overweight finance guy. I don't need someone to tell me the car has 4 wheels and a rear view mirror.
Never had a problem with one. But then every time I purchased a vehicle I knew what I wanted, and I didn't have to deal with the "overweight finance guy". Just walk in, tell 'em what you want, and write the check.
They are useless. The entire car buying process is a joke. Cars should be a set price and the only variable at play should be the financing rate due to different credit scores. It's 2019 and we have the internet, not encyclopedia Britannica. I've never met a car salesman that knew more than I did going in to buy a car, and I'm not saying that in an arrogant manner. Point is, the information is available. They serve no purpose but to harass and act like intermediary dope between you and the overweight finance guy. I don't need someone to tell me the car has 4 wheels and a rear view mirror.
Never had a problem with one. But then every time I purchased a vehicle I knew what I wanted, and I didn't have to deal with the "overweight finance guy". Just walk in, tell 'em what you want, and write the check.
In the Detroit area the majority of buyers purchase their vehicles through a employee or supplier program. Otherwise the easiest way to buy is through the internet manager. We usually check Chicago as well, purchasing a car for certain brands (e.g. Subaru) is a lot cheaper there.
I'm fairly certain that in Russia and North Korea they don't have car salesmen. Can't we ship a bunch of ours over to them?All my neighbors are [censored] car salesmen and I'm sick of they're lavish lifestyles and greasy palms. It's ridiculous we have to deal with them. I remember working at a GM dealership in 1996 and the panic that surrounded talk of the "Internet" and that GM had an idea to sell cars online and get rid of the whole dealership experience...Too bad.
Originally Posted by SevenBizzos
...Then there's the buyers that think dealer markup is 100%...
As someone who has several family members working for a local dealership, two of them very high up the totem pole, I can say their markup (keeping in mind that I think they are one of the most modest in the area) is often well above 100% markup. Perfect example, just last week a truck came in that said family member wanted to buy. Perfect farm truck. It was already determined the truck would be marked $14K on the lot. Dealer had $6K in it, willing to sell it to him for $8K. All verified by internal records. It would have been bought had the sale not fallen through [for the original owner of the truck] due to financing woes.
This is exactly why I'm an [censored] withcar dealers sales managers. I know they're marked up to the moon, even though they're always crying otherwise.
I've learned buying a new car is a thousand times easier than buying used, but the same rules apply. I've learned to put dealers against each other and make them fight for you, not against you. Figure out exactly what make/model/trim/features you want. Then whether done by call or email, get the lowest price from dealer A, then take that price to B. If B beats it go to C. Once you've given all dealers a chance, go back through them. They'll eventually weed themselves out of contention ("no, I can't go that low, they can have it" or "I'm done playing games (aka I can't make enough money off you)"). Eventually you end up with the best price.
What I can't stand (had this happen when looking for a friend out of state) is when they try telling you a car commands the CPO price tag because "it's certified" when the manufacturer CLEARLY says otherwise. Looking at you Green Hyundai of IL on a '17 Sonata with 65K miles...
...Then there's the buyers that think dealer markup is 100%...
As someone who has several family members working for a local dealership, two of them very high up the totem pole, I can say their markup (keeping in mind that I think they are one of the most modest in the area) is often well above 100% markup. Perfect example, just last week a truck came in that said family member wanted to buy. Perfect farm truck. It was already determined the truck would be marked $14K on the lot. Dealer had $6K in it, willing to sell it to him for $8K. All verified by internal records. It would have been bought had the sale not fallen through [for the original owner of the truck] due to financing woes.
This is exactly why I'm an [censored] with
I've learned buying a new car is a thousand times easier than buying used, but the same rules apply. I've learned to put dealers against each other and make them fight for you, not against you. Figure out exactly what make/model/trim/features you want. Then whether done by call or email, get the lowest price from dealer A, then take that price to B. If B beats it go to C. Once you've given all dealers a chance, go back through them. They'll eventually weed themselves out of contention ("no, I can't go that low, they can have it" or "I'm done playing games (aka I can't make enough money off you)"). Eventually you end up with the best price.
What I can't stand (had this happen when looking for a friend out of state) is when they try telling you a car commands the CPO price tag because "it's certified" when the manufacturer CLEARLY says otherwise. Looking at you Green Hyundai of IL on a '17 Sonata with 65K miles...
Originally Posted by javacontour
If you don't like the deal, don't buy. It really is that simple.
While the sales rep seldom brings value to you, dealers wouldn't have them if they didn't bring value to them.
They don't work for you, so your only control in the game is the power of no.
Strongly disagree! I buy a lot of new cars and will continue to do so for at least 8-10 years yet. I make it a point to let a salesperson know that I will be in the "drivers seat" and NOT the new car manager. Salespeople get paid on commission (most of them) and if they want to eat, they work for me. Do your homework, all your research, walk into a dealership of your choosing and tell them what you are willing to pay for said vehicle. Explain to them it is THEIR JOB to sell your deal (as a buyer) to the new car manager. They will take you seriously and get to work or you will get up and walk out. You don't need them anywhere near as much as they need you, the customer. If a buyer gets bent over the ol' lube rack, it is their own fault. The new car/truck/suv business is very competitive and the smart salesperson WILL go to work for you!
If you don't like the deal, don't buy. It really is that simple.
While the sales rep seldom brings value to you, dealers wouldn't have them if they didn't bring value to them.
They don't work for you, so your only control in the game is the power of no.
Strongly disagree! I buy a lot of new cars and will continue to do so for at least 8-10 years yet. I make it a point to let a salesperson know that I will be in the "drivers seat" and NOT the new car manager. Salespeople get paid on commission (most of them) and if they want to eat, they work for me. Do your homework, all your research, walk into a dealership of your choosing and tell them what you are willing to pay for said vehicle. Explain to them it is THEIR JOB to sell your deal (as a buyer) to the new car manager. They will take you seriously and get to work or you will get up and walk out. You don't need them anywhere near as much as they need you, the customer. If a buyer gets bent over the ol' lube rack, it is their own fault. The new car/truck/suv business is very competitive and the smart salesperson WILL go to work for you!
More than a half century ago, a used car salesman told me they had a 100% warranty. Fifty percent on parts and fifty percent on labor. That lesson stuck.
Originally Posted by HM12460
Originally Posted by javacontour
If you don't like the deal, don't buy. It really is that simple.
While the sales rep seldom brings value to you, dealers wouldn't have them if they didn't bring value to them.
They don't work for you, so your only control in the game is the power of no.
Strongly disagree! I buy a lot of new cars and will continue to do so for at least 8-10 years yet. I make it a point to let a salesperson know that I will be in the "drivers seat" and NOT the new car manager. Salespeople get paid on commission (most of them) and if they want to eat, they work for me. Do your homework, all your research, walk into a dealership of your choosing and tell them what you are willing to pay for said vehicle. Explain to them it is THEIR JOB to sell your deal (as a buyer) to the new car manager. They will take you seriously and get to work or you will get up and walk out. You don't need them anywhere near as much as they need you, the customer. If a buyer gets bent over the ol' lube rack, it is their own fault. The new car/truck/suv business is very competitive and the smart salesperson WILL go to work for you!
Do you do the same thing at the grocery store buying lettuce and cereal?
Car buying is certainly a unique buying experience in America. The internet has changed the car-buying process and the savvy consumer can sit at home in their undies snacking on Cheetos.
The good news is a lot of dealers are moving to fixed pricing and non-commissioned staff.
Originally Posted by javacontour
If you don't like the deal, don't buy. It really is that simple.
While the sales rep seldom brings value to you, dealers wouldn't have them if they didn't bring value to them.
They don't work for you, so your only control in the game is the power of no.
Strongly disagree! I buy a lot of new cars and will continue to do so for at least 8-10 years yet. I make it a point to let a salesperson know that I will be in the "drivers seat" and NOT the new car manager. Salespeople get paid on commission (most of them) and if they want to eat, they work for me. Do your homework, all your research, walk into a dealership of your choosing and tell them what you are willing to pay for said vehicle. Explain to them it is THEIR JOB to sell your deal (as a buyer) to the new car manager. They will take you seriously and get to work or you will get up and walk out. You don't need them anywhere near as much as they need you, the customer. If a buyer gets bent over the ol' lube rack, it is their own fault. The new car/truck/suv business is very competitive and the smart salesperson WILL go to work for you!
Do you do the same thing at the grocery store buying lettuce and cereal?
Car buying is certainly a unique buying experience in America. The internet has changed the car-buying process and the savvy consumer can sit at home in their undies snacking on Cheetos.
The good news is a lot of dealers are moving to fixed pricing and non-commissioned staff.
They are the worst. I've had a couple so bad that even after the deal was pretty much done ( they just wouldn't stop with the up selling of various ripoffs, warranties, scotch-guard, whatever) I just told them to shove it and walked out. It's uncanny, you are their dropping 25 - 50 thousand dollars on a product but since it's a vehicle somehow it's OK for them to jerk you around six ways from Sunday trying to rip you off. Buying my last SUV I was preoccupied with my 6 mo. old daughter, she wasn't feeling well and my wife was out of town. Knowing I was preoccupied, the salesman slipped in a $500.00 overcharge for a warranty I never approved or signed for. Going thru the paperwork later I noticed it & got my money back.
I've enjoyed my dealings with auto sales people, as a whole. Especially the ones at the Mazda dealer I go to. Low/no pressure, very good deals fair to me and the company, genuinely enjoyable people.
Some of us don't enjoy some good ol' hoss tradin'!
Seriously, car salesman vary wildly. I have too many stories and won't bore everyone with anecdotes, but I have seen very ethical and honest ones and also very unethical and dishonest ones as well.
Most cars are like commodities, work your deal remotely with several different sellers if you can unless buying something special/collectable. And as stated above, if you don't feel good about it, don't buy it!
Seriously, car salesman vary wildly. I have too many stories and won't bore everyone with anecdotes, but I have seen very ethical and honest ones and also very unethical and dishonest ones as well.
Most cars are like commodities, work your deal remotely with several different sellers if you can unless buying something special/collectable. And as stated above, if you don't feel good about it, don't buy it!
Originally Posted by loneryder
They are more useful than politicians. At least they provide a service.
^ True!
They are more useful than politicians. At least they provide a service.
^ True!
- Status
