Recommended Oil Differences

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Hello
I originally ran across this item on the Toyota forums.
The forum discussion was similar to one that I read on this site recently.
The 2019 Toyota corolla Hatchback requires the use of 0W16 oil.
The owners manual states that If SAE 0W-16 is not available, SAE OW-20 oil may be used
However, it must be replaced with SAE 0W-16 at the next oil change.

This was all fine and the discussion of 0W16 went back and forth with some noting that modern engines are engineered with tighter tolerances etc etc
and required the thinner oil.

About 10 months into the discussion, a person from Australia chimed in and posted the requirements for the same car in Australia.
In that manual for the same car and engine allows you to use 0W16, 0W20, 5W20, 5W30, 10W30, and 15W40.
I posted the page from each manual below. Both manuals list the engine part number as M20A-FKS.

The question is, why have we been fed this requirement with the threat of voiding warranty when in another country the same car and engine is fine with up to 15W40??
Is this the same with other cars as well?
The link to the the manual in Australia is here: http://toyotamanuals.com.au/docs/corolla-hatch-owners-manual-jun-18-current/

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Amazing...

I knew you could use the thicker oils in the older stuff but not the newest cars.
 
Originally Posted by MCompact
Easy answer- CAFE.


Correct. The verbiage was almost identical a couple years ago, with 0w-20 and 0w-30 replacing the 16 and 20, respectively.

CAFE requires that language, as the recommended oil must be the same as used in the mpg testing - and no other. If you read further in your owner's manual you will likely find the spot that says thicker oil may be required for adequate protection in some circumstances. This is the manufacturer's sole way to allow a thicker oil.
 
It doesn't say it is "fine" to use 15-40. I tried M1 15-50 in my 1990 Ford Tempo 4 cyl engine for one Oil change and had to drain it out after a short time as the engine was noticeably more sluggest than the M1 5-30 I was using.
 
Originally Posted by Garak
A 1990 Ford Tempo 4 cylinder is sluggish no matter what you do, tig1.
wink.gif




lol.gif


Great call Garak...

Though I agree with tig1 that a thick 15w40 would have a noticeable effect on the motor running sluggish.
 
Originally Posted by Garak
A 1990 Ford Tempo 4 cylinder is sluggish no matter what you do, tig1.
wink.gif



I bet a Ford Tempo couldn't get out of its own way! haha!
 
After we got a 2010 Corolla last year that recommends 0w or 5w20, I too discovered the Aussie owners manual for the same year that allows just about anything up to 20w50. I just got a UOA done on it that had a syn blend 10w30. It appeared to do better than the 0w20 Amsoil XL I had in prior to that, which was pretty good itself - https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...d-choice-10w30-syn-blend-5-0#Post5186248
So I'll stick with my 30's for it going forward, but go to a 5w syn for the Indiana winters.
 
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Originally Posted by PimTac
The engine will do just fine on 0w16. Are you worried?

Not worried, but don't like being given incorrect information.
I typically drive highway speeds and do notice a change in the engine sound and vibration as the oil gets older.

I'm sure that you could do oil analysis after 10,000 miles and have great numbers, but when pulling out of the parking lot after an oil change I will tell you there is a definite change in the feel of the engine.
To me sound and vibration mean more potential wear or reduction in protection.
I've read countless posts on the viscosity topic including 'experts' that tout low tolerances etc. I never got the low tolerance thing as oil protects surfaces from metal to metal contact. There is no tolerance in metal to metal contact.

The Cafe' requirements and standards of course make sense.
With Cafe' aside, my question would be, what would be the best oil viscosity for the typical 4 cylinder motor? The one that would result in the least wear?
Thanks
Jim
 
Originally Posted by Pat in Speedway
After we got a 2010 Corolla last year that recommends 0w or 5w20, I too discovered the Aussie owners manual for the same year that allows just about anything up to 20w50. I just got a UOA done on it that had a syn blend 10w30. It appeared to do better than the 0w20 Amsoil XL I had in prior to that, which was pretty good itself - https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...d-choice-10w30-syn-blend-5-0#Post5186248
So I'll stick with my 30's for it going forward, but go to a 5w syn for the Indiana winters.


I too use 10W30 in my 0W20 spec car. I had a flawless uoa. Practically zero wear metals.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...ord-pennzoil-platinum-high-mileage-10w30
 
Originally Posted by Hamltnblue
Originally Posted by PimTac
The engine will do just fine on 0w16. Are you worried?

Not worried, but don't like being given incorrect information.
I typically drive highway speeds and do notice a change in the engine sound and vibration as the oil gets older.

I'm sure that you could do oil analysis after 10,000 miles and have great numbers, but when pulling out of the parking lot after an oil change I will tell you there is a definite change in the feel of the engine.
To me sound and vibration mean more potential wear or reduction in protection.
I've read countless posts on the viscosity topic including 'experts' that tout low tolerances etc. I never got the low tolerance thing as oil protects surfaces from metal to metal contact. There is no tolerance in metal to metal contact.

The Cafe' requirements and standards of course make sense.
With Cafe' aside, my question would be, what would be the best oil viscosity for the typical 4 cylinder motor? The one that would result in the least wear?
Thanks
Jim


I use 0w-30 (M1 AFE) in my 2017 Toyota RAV4 that calls for 0w-20. The car is driven year round primarily in Pennsylvania. Oil is changed twice a year at approx 8000 to 10,000 mile intervals.
 
This seals the deal for me. Ive been struggling with this for a while, all this crap about tolerances etc. This is politics plain and simple. Im running a belly full of PUP 5W30 in my Subaru Crosstrek, and will go no lower than 5W20 for Indiana winter.
 
Originally Posted by Hamltnblue
Originally Posted by PimTac
The engine will do just fine on 0w16. Are you worried?

Not worried, but don't like being given incorrect information.
I typically drive highway speeds and do notice a change in the engine sound and vibration as the oil gets older.

I'm sure that you could do oil analysis after 10,000 miles and have great numbers, but when pulling out of the parking lot after an oil change I will tell you there is a definite change in the feel of the engine.
To me sound and vibration mean more potential wear or reduction in protection.
I've read countless posts on the viscosity topic including 'experts' that tout low tolerances etc. I never got the low tolerance thing as oil protects surfaces from metal to metal contact. There is no tolerance in metal to metal contact.

The Cafe' requirements and standards of course make sense.
With Cafe' aside, my question would be, what would be the best oil viscosity for the typical 4 cylinder motor? The one that would result in the least wear?
Thanks
Jim


Placebo effect is real

Tolerances are not clearances. Lower tolerances means the amount of clearance variation is far lower.
 
Placebo effect is real for some. Glad I'm not one of them.
Tolerances are not clearances, but lower tolerances means less clearance variation?
Funny stuff. But hey, it's Friday.
 
Originally Posted by tig1
It doesn't say it is "fine" to use 15-40. I tried M1 15-50 in my 1990 Ford Tempo 4 cyl engine for one Oil change and had to drain it out after a short time as the engine was noticeably more sluggest than the M1 5-30 I was using.


In my pre BITOG days I ran 5W-50 synthetic oil in my newish 1996 2.0 Zetec Contour spec'd for 5W-30. I was under the impression "thickerer is betterer" back then. I ran the 5W-50 for almost 2 years and all that I "gained" over 5W-30 was much more sluggish performance and much less mpg. I went back to 5W-30 and it was like having a much better preforming car and the mpg went up noticeably. In normal driving thicker isn't always better, at least for me
grin2.gif
.

Whimsey
 
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
... Tolerances are not clearances. Lower tolerances means the amount of clearance variation is far lower.
True. If tolerances are in fact tighter, that would mean maximum clearances don't have to be as large to avoid minimum clearances being too tight. Which would mean you don't need oil to be as thick to support loads in the large clearances.
 
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