ACEA A5 or above.

[wemay]

Originally Posted by avi1777
Originally Posted by edyvw
Since this is turbo, OP should forget ACEA A5 or API SN+ and just use ACEA A3 or C3 5W30.

and for a nonturbo but high compression 14.1 the a5 is sufficient?
tnx


More than enough

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by 2003f7
My Tucson is a 1.6 turbo with D.I.

Use ACEA A3 or C3.
You have Pennzoil Platinum Euro L in Wal Mart. It is MB 229.51 and better than ANY ACEA A5.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by avi1777
Originally Posted by edyvw
Since this is turbo, OP should forget ACEA A5 or API SN+ and just use ACEA A3 or C3 5W30.

and for a nonturbo but high compression 14.1 the a5 is sufficient?
tnx

Yep. I use in my Toyota SIenna Mobil1 5W30 EP, ACEA A5.

 

[avi1777]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by 2003f7
My Tucson is a 1.6 turbo with D.I.

Use ACEA A3 or C3.
You have Pennzoil Platinum Euro L in Wal Mart. It is MB 229.51 and better than ANY ACEA A5.

better,stronger ex sure but isnt it over kill?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by avi1777
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by 2003f7
My Tucson is a 1.6 turbo with D.I.

Use ACEA A3 or C3.
You have Pennzoil Platinum Euro L in Wal Mart. It is MB 229.51 and better than ANY ACEA A5.

better,stronger ex sure but isnt it over kill?

What is overkill? HTHS of Mobil1 5W30 EP is 3, PP Euro L is 3.5. That is the most important thing for turbo application.
Also, PP Euro L is approved against MB 229.51, which means much better deposit control, NOACK limited to max 10% (PP Euro L is GTL based, so in 5W30 application NOACK is probably in range around 7%. BMW TPT 5W30 that is made by SOPUS has NOACK 6.8%. Some argue that PP Euro L is actually same oil as BMW TPT 5W30). So, I am not sure you can characterize lower NOACK, deposits etc. as "overkill."
On top of that, PP Euro L in Wal Mart is $22 for 5qt, while Mobil1 5W30 EP which is ACEA A5 is $25.

 

[GumbyJarvis]

I had a 1.6T Veloster
QSUD 5W30, PP 5W30 ran okay. QSUD was once A5, PP I believe still is.
The best it ran was on Castrol Edge 5w40 U.S. although not A5 (its A3) it seemed to not have any issues and ran quieter and seemed peppier (butt dyno)

Hyundai cracks me up with these engines. "Requires A5" but under the hood it says "Hyundai Recommends Quaker State" which is no longer A5. At the same time, FF on these engines is usually plain ol QSGB

The biggest thing with these engines is using the OEM filter. There IS a TSB about knocks and ticks with other than OEM filters. I experienced it with the Fram Ultra, TG, and P1/Boss. The only filters I didnt experience the issue with were OEMs, Mann (who makes the OEM) and Puro Classics (White Cans)

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis
I had a 1.6T Veloster
QSUD 5W30, PP 5W30 ran okay. QSUD was once A5, PP I believe still is.
The best it ran was on Castrol Edge 5w40 U.S. although not A5 (its A3) it seemed to not have any issues and ran quieter and seemed peppier (butt dyno)

Hyundai cracks me up with these engines. "Requires A5" but under the hood it says "Hyundai Recommends Quaker State" which is no longer A5. At the same time, FF on these engines is usually plain ol QSGB

The biggest thing with these engines is using the OEM filter. There IS a TSB about knocks and ticks with other than OEM filters. I experienced it with the Fram Ultra, TG, and P1/Boss. The only filters I didnt experience the issue with were OEMs, Mann (who makes the OEM) and Puro Classics (White Cans)

A3 is more stringent than A5. I am not big fan of Castrol 5W40, as better oils are available (Castrol Edge 0W40, Mobil1 0W40 FS etc.) but compared to A5 in turbo application? Absolutely.

 

[GumbyJarvis]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis
I had a 1.6T Veloster
QSUD 5W30, PP 5W30 ran okay. QSUD was once A5, PP I believe still is.
The best it ran was on Castrol Edge 5w40 U.S. although not A5 (its A3) it seemed to not have any issues and ran quieter and seemed peppier (butt dyno)

Hyundai cracks me up with these engines. "Requires A5" but under the hood it says "Hyundai Recommends Quaker State" which is no longer A5. At the same time, FF on these engines is usually plain ol QSGB

The biggest thing with these engines is using the OEM filter. There IS a TSB about knocks and ticks with other than OEM filters. I experienced it with the Fram Ultra, TG, and P1/Boss. The only filters I didnt experience the issue with were OEMs, Mann (who makes the OEM) and Puro Classics (White Cans)

A3 is more stringent than A5. I am not big fan of Castrol 5W40, as better oils are available (Castrol Edge 0W40, Mobil1 0W40 FS etc.) but compared to A5 in turbo application? Absolutely.



Worse, GDI turbo application.

Oh also, the OM says you can use 5w40. Idk if theres an A5 5w40 though. Which again, is another contradiction that Hyundai has in the OM.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis
I had a 1.6T Veloster
QSUD 5W30, PP 5W30 ran okay. QSUD was once A5, PP I believe still is.
The best it ran was on Castrol Edge 5w40 U.S. although not A5 (its A3) it seemed to not have any issues and ran quieter and seemed peppier (butt dyno)

Hyundai cracks me up with these engines. "Requires A5" but under the hood it says "Hyundai Recommends Quaker State" which is no longer A5. At the same time, FF on these engines is usually plain ol QSGB

The biggest thing with these engines is using the OEM filter. There IS a TSB about knocks and ticks with other than OEM filters. I experienced it with the Fram Ultra, TG, and P1/Boss. The only filters I didnt experience the issue with were OEMs, Mann (who makes the OEM) and Puro Classics (White Cans)

A3 is more stringent than A5. I am not big fan of Castrol 5W40, as better oils are available (Castrol Edge 0W40, Mobil1 0W40 FS etc.) but compared to A5 in turbo application? Absolutely.



Worse, GDI turbo application.

Oh also, the OM says you can use 5w40. Idk if theres an A5 5w40 though. Which again, is another contradiction that Hyundai has in the OM.

Well, I know it is GDI turbo. All turbo vehicles today are GDI.
Yeah, A5 and 5W40. As I said before, they need to find someone in Huyndai that actually understands these things.

 

[avi1777]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by avi1777
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by 2003f7
My Tucson is a 1.6 turbo with D.I.

Use ACEA A3 or C3.
You have Pennzoil Platinum Euro L in Wal Mart. It is MB 229.51 and better than ANY ACEA A5.

better,stronger ex sure but isnt it over kill?

What is overkill? HTHS of Mobil1 5W30 EP is 3, PP Euro L is 3.5. That is the most important thing for turbo application.
Also, PP Euro L is approved against MB 229.51, which means much better deposit control, NOACK limited to max 10% (PP Euro L is GTL based, so in 5W30 application NOACK is probably in range around 7%. BMW TPT 5W30 that is made by SOPUS has NOACK 6.8%. Some argue that PP Euro L is actually same oil as BMW TPT 5W30). So, I am not sure you can characterize lower NOACK, deposits etc. as "overkill."
On top of that, PP Euro L in Wal Mart is $22 for 5qt, while Mobil1 5W30 EP which is ACEA A5 is $25.

i meant over kill fot a non turbo engine

 

[ka9mnx]

No.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by edyvw
A3 is more stringent than A5.

How? Isn't it the same spec other than HTHS requirements?

 

[avi1777]

the a3 has higher hths and better sludge controll,lower noack ex as mentioned above.
the a3 is ok for the converters as the a5?no difference right?
thinking way not just use a3 instead of the a5,the gas mileage difference is very small to none as i understood.
is there any advantages to the a5 at all?
tnx

 

[ka9mnx]

Please go to the ACEA website and download the specs. A5 and A3 oils are not specifically formulated to protect cats. That is where the recent "C" specs come into play. Cat protection was a contrived requirement for the US market only. Europeans used "A" spec oil in cat vehicles for years without any problems. US oil certifiers only "think" high PHos levels "may" be harmful to cats.

From the ACEA:

A/B: Gasoline and Diesel Engine Oils - "High SAPS"

A1/B1 Category is removed with these Oil Sequences.

A3/B3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & Diesel Engines
with extended drain intervals where specified by the Engine Manufacturer, and for severe operating conditions as
defined by the Engine Manufacturer.

A3/B4 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use at extended Drain Intervals in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van
Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines, but also suitable for applications described under A3/B3.

A5/B5 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use at extended Drain Intervals in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van
Gasoline & Diesel Engines designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5
mPas. These Oils are unsuitable for use in certain Engines - consult vehicle-OEM's owner's manual/handbook in
case of doubt.

C: Catalyst & GPF/DPF compatible Engine Oils for Gasoline & Diesel Engines - "Low SAPS"

Note:
Warning:
These Oils will increase the DPF/GPF and TWC life and maintain the Vehicle's Fuel Economy.
Some of these Categories may be unsuitable for use in certain Engine Types - consult the vehicle-
OEM's owner's manual/handbook in case of doubt.

C1 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Lowest SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended
Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger
Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils
with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 mPas.

C2 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended
Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger
Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils
with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 mPas.

C3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended
Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger
Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum
HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPas.

C4 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Low SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended
Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger
Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum
HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPas.

C5 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, for further improved Fuel Economy, intended for use as
catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems
and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be
capable and OEM-approved for use of Low Viscosity Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.6 mPas.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Please go to the ACEA website and download the specs. A5 and A3 oils are not specifically formulated to protect cats. That is where the recent "C" specs come into play. Cat protection was a contrived requirement for the US market only. Europeans used "A" spec oil in cat vehicles for years without any problems. US oil certifiers only "think" high PHos levels "may" be harmful to cats.

From the ACEA:

A/B: Gasoline and Diesel Engine Oils - "High SAPS"

A1/B1 Category is removed with these Oil Sequences.

A3/B3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & Diesel Engines
with extended drain intervals where specified by the Engine Manufacturer, and for severe operating conditions as
defined by the Engine Manufacturer.

A3/B4 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use at extended Drain Intervals in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van
Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines, but also suitable for applications described under A3/B3.

A5/B5 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use at extended Drain Intervals in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van
Gasoline & Diesel Engines designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5
mPas. These Oils are unsuitable for use in certain Engines - consult vehicle-OEM's owner's manual/handbook in
case of doubt.

C: Catalyst & GPF/DPF compatible Engine Oils for Gasoline & Diesel Engines - "Low SAPS"

Note:
Warning:
These Oils will increase the DPF/GPF and TWC life and maintain the Vehicle's Fuel Economy.
Some of these Categories may be unsuitable for use in certain Engine Types - consult the vehicle-
OEM's owner's manual/handbook in case of doubt.

C1 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Lowest SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended
Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger
Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils
with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 mPas.

C2 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended
Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger
Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils
with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 mPas.

C3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended
Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger
Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum
HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPas.

C4 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Low SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended
Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger
Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum
HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPas.

C5 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, for further improved Fuel Economy, intended for use as
catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems
and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be
capable and OEM-approved for use of Low Viscosity Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.6 mPas.

ACEA A3 is made for CAT protection, as ALL other ACEA oils. When ACEA was formed CAT's were already in use.
C oils (primarily C3) are designed specifically around DPF, but they do help also with protection of catalytic converters due to lower amount of SAPS compared to A sequence.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by edyvw
A3 is more stringent than A5.

How? Isn't it the same spec other than HTHS requirements?

In general, but ACEA A3 is always (except in very, very few cases) connected to manufacturer's approvals.

 

[ka9mnx]

Originally Posted by edyvw
ACEA A3 is made for CAT protection, as ALL other ACEA oils. When ACEA was formed CAT's were already in use.
C oils (primarily C3) are designed specifically around DPF, but they do help also with protection of catalytic converters due to lower amount of SAPS compared to A sequence.

I understand C was primarily for DPF but never, ever, have I read that A was designed around cat protection?

 

[ka9mnx]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by edyvw
A3 is more stringent than A5.

How? Isn't it the same spec other than HTHS requirements?

In general, but ACEA A3 is always (except in very, very few cases) connected to manufacturer's approvals.

I think you meant to say A3 was a more stout oil.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by ka9mnx
I understand C was primarily for DPF but never, ever, have I read that A was designed around cat protection?

That's always been more of a North American concern (in the API/ILSAC regime) with emissions systems warranties lengthened by legislation. In reality, any A5/B5 you find in North America will always be ILSAC rated and follow the 800 ppm phosphorus limitation.

 

[ka9mnx]

Originally Posted by Garak
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
I understand C was primarily for DPF but never, ever, have I read that A was designed around cat protection?

That's always been more of a North American concern (in the API/ILSAC regime) with emissions systems warranties lengthened by legislation. In reality, any A5/B5 you find in North America will always be ILSAC rated and follow the 800 ppm phosphorus limitation.

That is absolutely correct (read my first post on this).