Can too much ZDDP be a bad thing for a flat tappet motor?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Bonz... did I get your grades correct???
[Linked Image]



50 (M1 v twin), 40 (4T racing), 50 (Mystic JT8), 40 (Valvoline ATV), 50 (Castrol MC Dino), 40 (T5 syn blend).

Agree. The Rotella is not the cause of the clutch slipping. The 1164 cc ZRX isn't that magnificent V-Twin, but 87 ft/lbs and 145 horses at the rear wheel (in current form), it's within 13% of the Roadstar on torque, as I believe the stock Roadstar puts down about 100 ft/lbs at the wheel. The T5 15w40 syn blend doesn't have their JASO approval however I ran it and there were no issues, and it provided some of the best wear numbers of any of them. With that said I do like a better dose of zinc in my oil because the ZRX is known to need better lobe and tappet protection due to location of the oiling holes for the cam lobes.

I hope at the end of next riding season the aluminum numbers have come down, as there are now just over 10,000 miles on the new high comp pistons. For wear, everything else is really good.
 
Good info Bonz, thx for clarifying that. [Nice bike BTW]

I found my other local Oreilly's had T6 5w40 for $22.99 [plus a $7 rebate]. Any problems with that over the 15w40 T6? [or 5w40 T5] It does show JASO rated on the bottle, which makes me feel a little better, and from what I understand synthetic oil has a higher temperature rating than a same viscosity dino oil. I need at least 120° F ambient protection, because more and more we're seeing 110+°F temps, and as hot as my bike runs, I don't want to chance it. I've found various temp ratings for 5w40 ranging from 95° to 125° F. That's a big gap and I'd feel a little better with something a little more specific.

As for zinc, I've found VOAs ranging from 1100 to 1256. That has me a little concerned. I'm thinking I could add a couple ounces of the Lucas high ZDDP break in oil.

Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
why fix what you can buy new is the what you hear now a days...


If I'm honest, I'm in that group too. I've done the job before and removing the old gasket is a serious PITA, and at $132 for a new clutch kit, I'd just assume get it all done in one afternoon and be done with it once and for all. But that's some very good info and I'll certainly keep it in mind for the future. I'm certain the R* isn't my last bike. ... I'm sure you know how that goes.
 
Last edited:
Yamaha Roadstar = 84.3 HP (62 kW) @ 4400 rpm, Torque 135 Nm (99.57 lb-ft) @ 3750

Kawasaki Concours 14 = 158 HP @ 8,800 rpm, Torque 136 Nâ‹…m (100 lbfâ‹…ft) @ 6,200 rpm

Kawasaki Ninja ZX 14R = 197 HP @ 10000 rpm, Torque 158.2 Nm (116.5 lb-ft) @ 7500 rpm

Both Kawasaki's work well with Rotella 15W-40 for many miles. The same can be said for Mobil 1 15W-50 that has no mention of JASO MA. Back in the 70"s I ran Shell HDEO in Kawasaki H1 & H2, Norton 850 in the Arizona heat for years, never had a problem with clutch or trans.
 
Originally Posted by Roadstar_RIder


As for zinc, I've found VOAs ranging from 1100 to 1256. That has me a little concerned. I'm thinking I could add a couple ounces of the Lucas high ZDDP break in oil.


We need to understand the way additives live and work...

More ZDDP does NOT provide more wear protection, more ZDDP means it will just last longer
than the normal oil change interval prescribed by Yamaha... that is a 0.0 sum gain... but because
of your concern you should ask Yamaha direct if more ZDDP is necessary... I believe their answer will be no...
 
Last edited:
Unfortunately they stopped making these a few years ago, and there's no one left at Yamaha Corporate who knows anything about them. I called them on a number of occasions to no avail. And even worse, since there are so few in the wild, and so different compared to other Yamahas, the dealers don't know jack about them. Oh I'm sure there are one or to shops somewhere who work on these often enough to be considered "experts" but I've never heard of them. If you know of any, please tell me, I'd LOVE to put them on my speed dial.

As for the amount only = time, can you provide some sources? I'm always looking to expand and refine my knowledge.

Thx.

P.S. still hoping for an answer on the 5w40.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by FastGame
Yamaha Roadstar = 84.3 HP (62 kW) @ 4400 rpm, Torque 135 Nm (99.57 lb-ft) @ 3750

Kawasaki Concours 14 = 158 HP @ 8,800 rpm, Torque 136 Nâ‹…m (100 lbfâ‹…ft) @ 6,200 rpm

Kawasaki Ninja ZX 14R = 197 HP @ 10000 rpm, Torque 158.2 Nm (116.5 lb-ft) @ 7500 rpm

Both Kawasaki's work well with Rotella 15W-40 for many miles. The same can be said for Mobil 1 15W-50 that has no mention of JASO MA. Back in the 70"s I ran Shell HDEO in Kawasaki H1 & H2, Norton 850 in the Arizona heat for years, never had a problem with clutch or trans.


As much as I enjoy my R*, whenever I see numbers like that, it hurts my brain to think of how *little* hp is produced by such a BIG motor. But then I guess it's about the torque when it comes to a cruiser... But still.
 
Originally Posted by Roadstar_RIder
Originally Posted by FastGame
Yamaha Roadstar = 84.3 HP (62 kW) @ 4400 rpm, Torque 135 Nm (99.57 lb-ft) @ 3750

Kawasaki Concours 14 = 158 HP @ 8,800 rpm, Torque 136 Nâ‹…m (100 lbfâ‹…ft) @ 6,200 rpm

Kawasaki Ninja ZX 14R = 197 HP @ 10000 rpm, Torque 158.2 Nm (116.5 lb-ft) @ 7500 rpm

Both Kawasaki's work well with Rotella 15W-40 for many miles. The same can be said for Mobil 1 15W-50 that has no mention of JASO MA. Back in the 70"s I ran Shell HDEO in Kawasaki H1 & H2, Norton 850 in the Arizona heat for years, never had a problem with clutch or trans.


As much as I enjoy my R*, whenever I see numbers like that, it hurts my brain to think of how *little* hp is produced by such a BIG motor. But then I guess it's about the torque when it comes to a cruiser... But still.


Well your cruiser is making torque at much lower RPM than the high revving bikes, you are living more in the torque band. Your 84.3 HP (62 kW) @ 4400 rpm is pretty good IMO. Dodge Hellcat makes a bunch of HP, it sure isn't going to pull a load like a lower HP Peterbilt semi
wink.gif
 
I wouldn't worry about it. No sense in doing so anyway, as what's done is done and you've already put 2500 miles on it. After your next oil change the levels will drop down to whatever it's supposed to be for that oil.
 
Originally Posted by FastGame

Well your cruiser is making torque at much lower RPM than the high revving bikes, you are living more in the torque band. Your 84.3 HP (62 kW) @ 4400 rpm is pretty good IMO. Dodge Hellcat makes a bunch of HP, it sure isn't going to pull a load like a lower HP Peterbilt semi
wink.gif



That's actually a pretty good analogy. My motor is more like a diesel, in the way that it makes it's power, than a high revving inline four. [If it were eight cylinders it'd be the 6.9 liters!] I believe it has a 40 lbs. crank to help smooth things out... HA, smooth is not a word I'd use to describe it, unless you were comparing it to an older Harley.
 
Originally Posted by Bonz

50 (M1 v twin), 40 (4T racing), 50 (Mystic JT8), 40 (Valvoline ATV), 50 (Castrol MC Dino), 40 (T5 syn blend).


Bonz is this version correct???
[Linked Image]
 
Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted by Bonz

50 (M1 v twin), 40 (4T racing), 50 (Mystic JT8), 40 (Valvoline ATV), 50 (Castrol MC Dino), 40 (T5 syn blend).


Bonz is this version correct???
[Linked Image]



While we're at it, that image is a little fuzzy, is this correct?

50 (M1 v twin, Z=1381), 40 (M1 4T racing, Z=1155), 50 (Mystic JT8, Z=1328), 40 (Valvoline ATV, Z=880), 50 (Castrol MC Dino, Z=1029), 40 (Rotella T5 syn blend, Z=1031)
 
Last edited:
Yep, right on the money.

I was really surprised the Valvoline ATV Zinc was so low. I had some around and used it up for a short oci after installing ZZR 1200 pistons.

Afer 5,000 miles one of those oistons broke an oil ring thus I went ahead and went all the way to the JE 12.5 to 1 Pistons last year and now have over 10,000 trouble-free miles.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top