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Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video [Re: Deontologist] #5204683 09/04/19 05:32 PM
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edyvw Offline
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Originally Posted by Deontologist
Originally Posted by edyvw

Lexus RC is really not good example because for class where it plays it is too heavy. Again, tell us what ballast on bumpers have to do with BMW? This is topic about BMW B58 engine not Lexus or microwaves like Camry. Tell us where is that mass located in BMW G20 or F30 or E90? Ony thing clear here is that you tied yourself into knot and trying to get out of discussion as providing some argument.
I asked you about BMW and you talking about some appliance FWD cars or attempts of sport cars like RC F. Only clear here is that you have no idea about BMW. But, if I need some ballasts when doing some work on a house, I know who to ask.


I'm in the automotive industry. Whole-vehicle evaluations are not pertinent to this discussion regarding mass distribution and moment of inertia. Whether a M3 or RC F or 911 are good, bad, or average sports cars is irrelevant to why the timing chain is on the rear of a B58 engine. Comments like yours show that your understanding of vehicle engineering doesn't go far beyond what anyone can read in Car&Driver.

And you make my point for me. Even with such a "heavy" car as the RC F, weight savings are hard to come by. And in a more weight-optimized car, like a BMW with a B58 engine, weight savings are even harder to come by. What you can do is to optimize the mass distribution of the vehicle, given that weight reductions (mass reductions) are not going to be very easy to come by.

The next step will be further electrification of the drivetrain. The new Mercedes inline 6 is a very good from a high-level engineering perspective. It eliminates the accessory belt system that's commonly found on the front of engines. That right there gives you weight and mass savings, while optimizing the moment of inertia by removing mass from the front of the vehicle. I expect BMW to lose the accessory belt system in a few years as well.

I was in car industry too, so please, do not give me that BS.
I asked you about "ballast," where is it in G20, F30 or E90, and you gave me Toyota Camry as an example. Last time I checked, Camry is not BMW 3 series.
Lexus RC-f is heavy due to platform, it has engine pushed forward compared to BMW. Engine mostly sits bit ahead of front axle, and it is V8, which is NOT comparable to BMW.
Like I said, you tied yourself into knot and you do not know your way out.


15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)
Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video [Re: Deontologist] #5205415 09/05/19 01:48 PM
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Pew Offline
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Originally Posted by Deontologist
[quote=edyvw]
The next step will be further electrification of the drivetrain. The new Mercedes inline 6 is a very good from a high-level engineering perspective. It eliminates the accessory belt system that's commonly found on the front of engines. That right there gives you weight and mass savings, while optimizing the moment of inertia by removing mass from the front of the vehicle. I expect BMW to lose the accessory belt system in a few years as well.


Yea, and now we need turkey basters to change the oil instead of just letting good ole natural gravity do it's work.

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video [Re: Pew] #5205826 09/05/19 11:49 PM
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edyvw Offline
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Originally Posted by Pew
Originally Posted by Deontologist
[quote=edyvw]
The next step will be further electrification of the drivetrain. The new Mercedes inline 6 is a very good from a high-level engineering perspective. It eliminates the accessory belt system that's commonly found on the front of engines. That right there gives you weight and mass savings, while optimizing the moment of inertia by removing mass from the front of the vehicle. I expect BMW to lose the accessory belt system in a few years as well.


Yea, and now we need turkey basters to change the oil instead of just letting good ole natural gravity do it's work.

I did not even see this gem. So MB optimized inertia by removing mass from front, yet engine still sits more forward than in BMW or Alfa Romeo.
One cannot make this up.


15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OEM filter).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)
Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video [Re: E365] #5206716 09/06/19 11:07 PM
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I say this as a BMW enthusiast. I am not impressed with that over engineered B58 motor. It was designed by a bunch of engineers who never so much as changed their own spark plugs. I love my BMWs but I will not buy the brand again.

Next up, oil pan removals for oil changes because the drain plug compromises pan stiffness. A 3.0L inline six with 335 horsepower. Big deal. With all that "engineering" I would have expected 500+.

Watching this makes a Tesla seem appealing to me!

Scott


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Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video [Re: SLO_Town] #5206725 09/06/19 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SLO_Town
I say this as a BMW enthusiast. I am not impressed with that over engineered B58 motor. It was designed by a bunch of engineers who never so much as changed their own spark plugs. I love my BMWs but I will not buy the brand again.

Next up, oil pan removals for oil changes because the drain plug compromises pan stiffness. A 3.0L inline six with 335 horsepower. Big deal. With all that "engineering" I would have expected 500+.

Watching this makes a Tesla seem appealing to me!

Scott

Interesting that that was your takeaway, Scott.

I saw a lot of smart packaging and intelligent design, moreso than BMW has shown since the turn of the century.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video [Re: SLO_Town] #5206766 09/07/19 01:44 AM
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edyvw Offline
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Originally Posted by SLO_Town
I say this as a BMW enthusiast. I am not impressed with that over engineered B58 motor. It was designed by a bunch of engineers who never so much as changed their own spark plugs. I love my BMWs but I will not buy the brand again.

Next up, oil pan removals for oil changes because the drain plug compromises pan stiffness. A 3.0L inline six with 335 horsepower. Big deal. With all that "engineering" I would have expected 500+.

Watching this makes a Tesla seem appealing to me!

Scott

IDk, but I noticed that they addressed some previous issue. OFH is different, obviously trying to FINALLY address that issue. Water pump is mechanical not electric.
Now, I would not be surprised if they return oil dipstick as they did in N63TU since new 5 series is introduced.
Also, I think it was Car and Driver that just did test on G20 B48 330i with M package, and they scored 42mpg average on 200 mile test. Better then Honda Civic, and I think 1mpg shy of Camry hybrid.

Last edited by edyvw; 09/07/19 01:45 AM.

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Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video [Re: edyvw] #5207712 09/08/19 01:25 PM
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Pew Offline
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Originally Posted by edyvw

Also, I think it was Car and Driver that just did test on G20 B48 330i with M package, and they scored 42mpg average on 200 mile test. Better then Honda Civic, and I think 1mpg shy of Camry hybrid.


I saw that article and I think that's freaking crazy. If that's straight highway miles, that's as good as my 3cyl focus gets.

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video [Re: Pew] #5207749 09/08/19 02:09 PM
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MCompact Offline
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Originally Posted by Pew

I saw that article and I think that's freaking crazy. If that's straight highway miles, that's as good as my 3cyl focus gets.


Yes, 42 mpg at a 75 mph cruise. The 330i is not super-quick, but a 14.0 second quarter is impressive considering the fuel economy.


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Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video [Re: MCompact] #5207860 09/08/19 04:41 PM
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edyvw Offline
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Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by Pew

I saw that article and I think that's freaking crazy. If that's straight highway miles, that's as good as my 3cyl focus gets.


Yes, 42 mpg at a 75 mph cruise. The 330i is not super-quick, but a 14.0 second quarter is impressive considering the fuel economy.

330i is not super-quick compared to 340i. But when you comapre to other cars, yeah it is quick. Especially when you compare to other cars that get similar mpg.


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11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)
Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video [Re: edyvw] #5208061 09/08/19 09:44 PM
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Pew Offline
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Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by Pew

I saw that article and I think that's freaking crazy. If that's straight highway miles, that's as good as my 3cyl focus gets.


Yes, 42 mpg at a 75 mph cruise. The 330i is not super-quick, but a 14.0 second quarter is impressive considering the fuel economy.

330i is not super-quick compared to 340i. But when you comapre to other cars, yeah it is quick. Especially when you compare to other cars that get similar mpg.


Yea, same MPGs as me but twice the HP/TQ and 5 seconds faster than mine in a 1/4mi.

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video [Re: E365] #5208067 09/08/19 10:22 PM
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its still Toyota , stop calling the new supra a bmw spank

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video [Re: MetalSlug] #5208198 09/09/19 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by MetalSlug
its still Toyota , stop calling the new supra a bmw spank

Toyota couldn't be bothered to design their own sports car, and I can't be bothered to pretend they did.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video [Re: rooflessVW] #5208203 09/09/19 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by MetalSlug
its still Toyota , stop calling the new supra a bmw spank

Toyota couldn't be bothered to design their own sports car, and I can't be bothered to pretend they did.


And the only other sports car is a Subaru.


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Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video [Re: SLO_Town] #5208222 09/09/19 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by SLO_Town
I say this as a BMW enthusiast. I am not impressed with that over engineered B58 motor. It was designed by a bunch of engineers who never so much as changed their own spark plugs. I love my BMWs but I will not buy the brand again.

Next up, oil pan removals for oil changes because the drain plug compromises pan stiffness. A 3.0L inline six with 335 horsepower. Big deal. With all that "engineering" I would have expected 500+.

Watching this makes a Tesla seem appealing to me!

Scott


The BMW version makes almost 400 hp. IJS. The Supra B58 is purposely de-tuned.


“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

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Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video [Re: E365] #5209361 09/10/19 03:54 PM
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Here's part II of this 1000 HP engine build. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0K2aoEwgV8

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