STOP changing your oil so often!

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted by Dak27
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
Originally Posted by CARJ
Stop telling me how to maintain my vehicles...


Exactly. I will keep doing my 5K OCIs as it is much cheaper than an engine.


I agree. I choose not to roll the dice on any of my engines.

I've heard a ton about Amsoil, but I'm not personally interested in using it. Before I started using synthetics, I went by my owner's manual, which typically was a 3,000 to 4,000 mile OCI, using conventional oil.

I do 15,000 mile intervals on my Semi Truck, but that's it, conventional or semi-synthetic. I'm not extending my intervals, it's not within my comfort zone.

My daughters and wife's vehicles have OLMs, so I go by those and the Owners manual. It seems 7500 miles are the norm for each vehicle. All 3 vehicles get full synthetic oils.

My '97 F-250HD gets M1 HM at this time, but I'll be switching over to Kendall GT-1 full synthetic in the future, because I get it at a lower price per quart. I don't drive my pickup a lot, it only has 83,000 original miles, so I typically change it's oil every other year, which probably ends up to be every 5,000 miles. When I was regularly driving it, I used name brand conventional oils, and changed it every 3,000 to 4,000 miles.

I do plan on putting a little money back into my old pickup and driving it more often. Once I do, I'll use full synthetic, and do my OCIs every 5,000 miles.

You say "Full Synthetic" a lot in your reply. It must bring you some comfort.
You do know that most ILSAC GF product sold in the U.S. is NOT synthetic?

Regardless, I think you are doing a good job on your maintenance. The US markets non-synthetic "synthetic" have lasted me 5000-9000 miles depending on vehicle. Longer on the wife's car that gets driven far and hard everyday.

 

[ChrisD46]

*GDI OCI = no longer than 5,000 miles for me using 5W30 synthetic .
Originally Posted by pitzel
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
DI i produces soot that gets into the oil. Oil changes should be shorter for this and fuel dilution..
Oil analysis is not a good indicator of wear protection, just oil serviceability.

The soot in GDI and GDIT May soon result in particulate filtration for gasoline engines due to the particulate pollutants.


Haven't seen this show up in UOA's as insolubles on the DI engines. The UOA's from the DI engines are some of the cleanest ever. DI's might be creating a little bit of startup soot because of aggressive NOx mitigation requirements requiring fairly high levels of fueling during the startup phase to quickly heat catalytic converters up. Which is a very temporary state of affairs in the operating regime.

 

[cristo]

My car 2009 MINI JCW Clubman and all other
MINIs with the N14 engine really like a good
oil, changed every 5K, and kept near to full on
the dipstick or they're prone to premature
failure of the timing chain guides, chain, and
tensioner. Expensive to replace preemptively
and much more expensive to fix if they fail and
a bunch of valves get bent.
I'll be continuing to follow a 5K OCI and keep
The oil full or near full.

 

[cwhard]

I am the original poster. Yes I took 10 years from first signing up to using my account, but I have been busy Living! I also have been busy using my preferred synthetic oil a Minimum of 15,000 living in (first) West Texas and now humid N. Louisiana . I do NOT deviate from the 15K or the 1-2 years it takes to get there (I am a sr - most do drive a little less) . I have Black Stone Lab results same as most of you and they have always encouraged me to push the 20K limit. It does help that I switched over to synthetic when my Mazda was new.

I do NOT work for Amsoil but do have a membership for Preferred pricing (-25%). Anyone can do that and it helps other family members as well. I will attempt to use this membership more, but am not "inferior" to you who do as I have been changing my longer than many of you have been alive. If that an't good enough to post interesting topics (in your opinion), you have a problem.

in closing, this have been a lively conversation and I have learned some things. Isn't that why we all do this in the first place?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by ChrisD46
*GDI OCI = no longer than 5,000 miles for me using 5W30 synthetic .

IMO that would be a great starting point for a UOA, or possibly a good OCI for many to follow should they opt out of a UOA.

 

[PimTac]

What year is your Mazda?

 

[cwhard]

Additionally, the extra cost of Amsoil over the oil I can buy at WalMart, Amazon, Autozone, etc.. does not provide any cost savings, and in fact may cost MORE for the same interval, which is 7,500 miles. I can buy a 5-quart jug of Castrol Magnatec, for each OCI, and a Fram Ultra filter every other OCI, and spend roughly $48 for the two OCIs over 15,000 miles. Can you say the same for your scenario?

_______________________________________________________

Sure. I change my oil (normally) once a year. I pay $8.50 a qt (x5) plus a $13 Ea filter. That is $55 per year with a engine failure warranty from the oil manufacturer. All for the (tested) best oil in the industry. I defy you to prove me wrong. And for Turbo guy. That broken turbo would have broken no matter what (may even have been user error). Just to be fair...

 

[cwhard]

2009 Mazda 3s

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by pitzel
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by pitzel

With modern DI engines, even longer intervals are quite realistic given how clean such engines burn.

DI in many instances should have more frequent oil changes, a step backwards some might say when it comes to extended OCIs. A DI engine and an engine with a carburetor would be the last types of engines I'd want to push an OCI to the limit.


And what would be the condemnation factor in the case of a DI engine?


You tell me. I'd get a UOA and find out how the oil is doing in my application and my driving conditions, and not blindly follow what others are saying or doing. My UOAs told me following the blanket statement of a good synthetic oil can go 10K would have left me with spent oil in my non-DI applications, yet others can run the oil longer than that with ease. I'll take a more cautious and scientific approach when stretching the OCI. That's what I recommend to others as well.



Where are these UOA's? I've searched for them and have not seen them?

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Originally Posted by pitzel
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
DI i produces soot that gets into the oil. Oil changes should be shorter for this and fuel dilution..
Oil analysis is not a good indicator of wear protection, just oil serviceability.

The soot in GDI and GDIT May soon result in particulate filtration for gasoline engines due to the particulate pollutants.


Haven't seen this show up in UOA's as insolubles on the DI engines. The UOA's from the DI engines are some of the cleanest ever. DI's might be creating a little bit of startup soot because of aggressive NOx mitigation requirements requiring fairly high levels of fueling during the startup phase to quickly heat catalytic converters up. Which is a very temporary state of affairs in the operating regime.o


Disagree that soot is a temporary startup issue, it is a combustion issue as a result of direct injection strata and mixtures within the combustion chamber. Resulting in some fuel not completely combusting.


https://www.lubrizoladditives360.com/gdi-soot-a-new-challenge/

Appearance GDI soot simply looks different than either traditional soot or sludge. Traditional soot maintains a turbostratic structure, meaning the substance's carbon planes appear in a logical pattern. GDI soot, meanwhile, is far more amorphous and doesn't maintain a firm structure.
Chemistry At the chemical level, GDI soot is more aromatic than traditional soot, and is slightly more polar. For both of these reasons, GDI soot has been found to interact with lubricants in certain ways that have not been previously witnessed. Specifically, the material can interfere with lubricant additives and the ways in which those additives perform their intended functions-primarily the lubricant's ability to provide the robust protection that GDI engines require. Traditional soot is commonly responsible for lubricant thickening-while this problem exists to some extent with GDI soot, oil marketers and OEMs are far more concerned with the non-traditional engine wear associated with GDI soot.

Besides that UOAs May not be the ultimate empirical data they are held up to be for determining condemnation levels (notice I did not say they determine how well oil is protecting an engine) with GDI applications as they are for traditional port injection applications.

 

[noclutch]

Can anyone comment on TBN expected rate of decline in general when extending the OCI towards 10k or per the iOLM?

Does base drop linearly, logarithmically or exponentially?

I'm my case with my last UOA, the base number went from 6.7 to 2.7 in 5k miles, with the oil life indicator registering @ 50%. Where would that TBN likely be approaching 10k miles or "0%" ??

 

[DBMaster]

I have been using microGreen filters on my 2012 Mazda3 as well as on both of my kids' cars. I've been changing the filters every 10,000 miles and only changing all the oil every 30,000 miles. Mine still had a TBN of 2.1 after 30,000 miles. Unfortunately, I'm on my last 30K run with microGreen because they've gone out of business - such a bummer. I'll have to settle for 15,000 miles on Mobil 1 EP and a Fram Ultra moving forward. I started doing 10,000 mile OCIs on my 1989 Accord around 1992 or 1993. I kept the car for 23 years and 353,000 miles before wrecking it. Many people are changing their oil way too often. It's just wasteful, regardless of how much you "enjoy" changing oil or think it's doing you any good to change it sooner.

 

[GumbyJarvis]

To answer ops ...statement... No.

 

[JLTD]

Originally Posted by noclutch
Can anyone comment on TBN expected rate of decline in general when extending the OCI towards 10k or per the iOLM?

Does base drop linearly, logarithmically or exponentially?

I'm my case with my last UOA, the base number went from 6.7 to 2.7 in 5k miles, with the oil life indicator registering @ 50%. Where would that TBN likely be approaching 10k miles or "0%" ??


NOT linear, TBN drops more quickly at the beginning, then the rate slows and nearly stops. I guess that's an exponential decay on the graph




Originally Posted by Gebo
I just moved from an expensive oil every 5k to a cheaper oil every 3k. I needed the extra oil to keep the dust down in my driveway. Now when I change my oil it is still a nice tannish clearish brown vs that old black as tar stuff and my driveway looks much better.

My neighbors want me to start doing their driveway.


Do you or any neighbors have a well? I hope not.

 

[ChrisD46]

Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted by pitzel
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
DI i produces soot that gets into the oil. Oil changes should be shorter for this and fuel dilution..
Oil analysis is not a good indicator of wear protection, just oil serviceability.

The soot in GDI and GDIT May soon result in particulate filtration for gasoline engines due to the particulate pollutants.


Haven't seen this show up in UOA's as insolubles on the DI engines. The UOA's from the DI engines are some of the cleanest ever. DI's might be creating a little bit of startup soot because of aggressive NOx mitigation requirements requiring fairly high levels of fueling during the startup phase to quickly heat catalytic converters up. Which is a very temporary state of affairs in the operating regime.o


Disagree that soot is a temporary startup issue, it is a combustion issue as a result of direct injection strata and mixtures within the combustion chamber. Resulting in some fuel not completely combusting.


https://www.lubrizoladditives360.com/gdi-soot-a-new-challenge/

Appearance GDI soot simply looks different than either traditional soot or sludge. Traditional soot maintains a turbostratic structure, meaning the substance's carbon planes appear in a logical pattern. GDI soot, meanwhile, is far more amorphous and doesn't maintain a firm structure.
Chemistry At the chemical level, GDI soot is more aromatic than traditional soot, and is slightly more polar. For both of these reasons, GDI soot has been found to interact with lubricants in certain ways that have not been previously witnessed. Specifically, the material can interfere with lubricant additives and the ways in which those additives perform their intended functions-primarily the lubricant's ability to provide the robust protection that GDI engines require. Traditional soot is commonly responsible for lubricant thickening-while this problem exists to some extent with GDI soot, oil marketers and OEMs are far more concerned with the non-traditional engine wear associated with GDI soot.

Besides that UOAs May not be the ultimate empirical data they are held up to be for determining condemnation levels (notice I did not say they determine how well oil is protecting an engine) with GDI applications as they are for traditional port injection applications.

* Interesting how a PFI 2.0L Elantra engine vs.GDI 2.4L Sonata engine can respond to the same synthetic oil at approx. the same mileage so differently ? At 2,600 miles the Valvoline Advanced 5W30 in the GDI engine is dark and fragrent while in the PFI engine it still retains it's gold color with little to no fuel smell . Until more is learned about GDI engines and the result of the soot they produce on oil additives - then I will error towards a lower OCI (< 5,000 miles) .

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

No. Wife says she is going to have someone take a sledge hammer to my ancient oil drain pan and inter it with my ashes. Works for me.

 

[madeej11]

Originally Posted by DBMaster
I have been using microGreen filters on my 2012 Mazda3 as well as on both of my kids' cars. I've been changing the filters every 10,000 miles and only changing all the oil every 30,000 miles. Mine still had a TBN of 2.1 after 30,000 miles. Unfortunately, I'm on my last 30K run with microGreen because they've gone out of business - such a bummer. I'll have to settle for 15,000 miles on Mobil 1 EP and a Fram Ultra moving forward. I started doing 10,000 mile OCIs on my 1989 Accord around 1992 or 1993. I kept the car for 23 years and 353,000 miles before wrecking it. Many people are changing their oil way too often. It's just wasteful, regardless of how much you "enjoy" changing oil or think it's doing you any good to change it sooner.

Agree completely with DBMaster. What a waste especially considering the quality oil available these days. Unless of course you've got a fuel dilution problem or are under a warranty.

 

[Gebo]

Originally Posted by JLTD
Originally Posted by noclutch
Can anyone comment on TBN expected rate of decline in general when extending the OCI towards 10k or per the iOLM?

Does base drop linearly, logarithmically or exponentially?

I'm my case with my last UOA, the base number went from 6.7 to 2.7 in 5k miles, with the oil life indicator registering @ 50%. Where would that TBN likely be approaching 10k miles or "0%" ??


NOT linear, TBN drops more quickly at the beginning, then the rate slows and nearly stops. I guess that's an exponential decay on the graph




Originally Posted by Gebo
I just moved from an expensive oil every 5k to a cheaper oil every 3k. I needed the extra oil to keep the dust down in my driveway. Now when I change my oil it is still a nice tannish clearish brown vs that old black as tar stuff and my driveway looks much better.

My neighbors want me to start doing their driveway.


Do you or any neighbors have a well? I hope not.


Nope, we're good. City water and sewer.


You guys are too easy....


LOL

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by dave1251


Where are these UOA's? I've searched for them and have not seen them?


Are you referring to my UOA reports? I didn't post them on the open forum. The friends/members I wanted to see them saw them and gave their expert interpretation.
Bottom line: 10K OCIs are not in the cards for me, and blanket statements can cause problems. I will continue to suggest to take a more cautious and scientific approach when stretching the OCI. That still remains my recommendation, and some engines are better suited for extending OCIs, DI and Carb'ed engines imo are not prime candidates based on my readings here.

 

[JLTD]

Originally Posted by demarpaint
I will continue to suggest to take a more cautious and scientific approach when stretch That still remains my recommendation, and some engines are better suited for extending OCIs, DI and Carb'ed engines imo are not prime candidates based on my readings here.


Completely agree. DI turbo and carbureted applications are poor candidates for long intervals.

Port injected NA engines on the other hand....absolutely no reason to go only 3000 or 5000 miles!!*


For most engines, that is. There are exceptions....