We passed on the other home I posted about because the septic wasn't to code and wouldn't pass. So we are looking at this house. The hall way definitely has a slant to it. It is sturdy feeling though. The house also had a slant in the living room kitchen area. They seller says it has a crawl space but we have yet to see where. Could they have put siding over it? What's your overall thoughts on the house? We will be redoing the driveway and making it bigger. As well as adding a privacy fence. And some other interior changes would be in the process to. 1670 Elmont Rd, Sullivan, MO 63080
House structural question's
- Thread starter ram_man
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As someone who bought a saggy house on a crawlspace, I have one word: Run.
It's not worth it. 3 years later I've jacked part of the house 8 inches in one corner and 4 inches in another spot. Center of the house is still sagged. And I have replaced almost all of the joists on the first floor. Just too much work.
Let it go to someone who does that as primary employment as a flip / rental or something.
It's not worth it. 3 years later I've jacked part of the house 8 inches in one corner and 4 inches in another spot. Center of the house is still sagged. And I have replaced almost all of the joists on the first floor. Just too much work.
Let it go to someone who does that as primary employment as a flip / rental or something.
I'd be more worried about this newer house with the slanty floors than I would be about a septic system that needed to be replaced. Floors that are significantly out of level makes me worry there's something messed up with the foundation.
For the crawlspace, I suppose it's possible they could've sided over the vents, but if you don't see a way to access it from outside, there should be an access inside somewhere, usually inside a closet. If you can't find it, just say you'd like to inspect the crawlspace and see what they come back with.
For the crawlspace, I suppose it's possible they could've sided over the vents, but if you don't see a way to access it from outside, there should be an access inside somewhere, usually inside a closet. If you can't find it, just say you'd like to inspect the crawlspace and see what they come back with.
You'd better get a really good discount to make it worth while. It'd cost some money just to stop the settling and if you fix it, it's really expensive and adds nothing to the value of the house because other similar houses aren't settling For instance if you spent 50k to fix it, you get nothing back on resale, but if you spent 50k on a kitchen renovation, you're likely to get a chunk of that back at resale.
I think they should have turned the lights on when taking the pictures and used a fill flash with a wide angle lense.
I think they should have turned the lights on when taking the pictures and used a fill flash with a wide angle lense.
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What would make it an instant deal breaker for me,I don't like people who turn their garages into living rooms. No garage is a deal breaker for me.
Originally Posted by SHOZ
Crawl space with no vents is trouble unless you live in the desert.
I can guarantee that's what caused the sag in the house. Years of high moisture has killed the joists and any girders underneath the house.
Looking at the listing photos it actually doesn't look too terrible. What I can tell from the listing and just going on some standards that should have been followed:
The house actually doesn't look terrible. Looking at how the front door is fitting, I'd guess the flashing wasn't done right and the rim joist and at least one or two floor joists is rotted out. That looks to have caused the front wall to sag and make the roof sag. The floor joists are likely also punky as is the main beam.
I'm guessing someone bought it cheap, did a quick "remodel" and wants to sell the rest of the structural problems on to the next owner. It's not something I would pass on PRE "remodel". It would be a great house to buy, tear all the subfloor out and replace all of the joists, jack a bit, then button up.
Crawl space with no vents is trouble unless you live in the desert.
I can guarantee that's what caused the sag in the house. Years of high moisture has killed the joists and any girders underneath the house.
Looking at the listing photos it actually doesn't look too terrible. What I can tell from the listing and just going on some standards that should have been followed:
- The front wall of the house is sagging where the entrance door is, appears to be causing the roof to sag in the middle
- Floor Joists should run perpendicular to the roof and they are probably rotten from being n a crawlspace with no venting
- There is likely a girder that runs in the middle of the house (similar to what you see on top of picture 7) under neath or joined to the floor joists. This is likely not supported well enough or has started to fail due to high moisture.
- If the sag in the kitchen doesn't continue to the wall/roof line, it's probably more bad joists and a bad support beam in that section
The house actually doesn't look terrible. Looking at how the front door is fitting, I'd guess the flashing wasn't done right and the rim joist and at least one or two floor joists is rotted out. That looks to have caused the front wall to sag and make the roof sag. The floor joists are likely also punky as is the main beam.
I'm guessing someone bought it cheap, did a quick "remodel" and wants to sell the rest of the structural problems on to the next owner. It's not something I would pass on PRE "remodel". It would be a great house to buy, tear all the subfloor out and replace all of the joists, jack a bit, then button up.
Wow, houses are cheap up there!
From the site I looked at, it looks like it is a complete remodel, so most of the issues from a settling foundation would likely be masked. Things that would have been a problem if doors and windows were not replaced would have been doors would not stay open by themselves, binding doors and windows due to settling, cracked walls, cracked tiles and all those problems could return if the house is still settling due to structural or foundation issues.
The driveway crack makes me thing the major settling took place away from the house foundation.
An inexpensive laser level would tell a lot if you are serious about the house, mainly If the foundation was settling, you would be able to tell if it is the perimeter foundation, or if there was settling and sagging towards the middle, and given that it does not appear to be a very big house, you may have undersized joists for too large a span if the sagging was towards the middle, for which you could add footers, a post and beam to prevent further settling, although in your area, that may be a huge task to get to footing depth. Here in Florida, it would be no big deal, since our foundations are only 12" deep. I think an inspection of the crawl space would be a good idea, to see what kind of foundation you have and the condition of the joists. Don't know if you have termites up there, but I lived in one crawl space type house, where termites ate every other joist, which ruined their integrity.
Another big issue is that if you jack up the floor to level it, you will cause new problems in reverse...doors, windows, cabinets, drywall cracks tiles if there is any. best you could hope for would be support the floor as it is to prevent further damage and do a cosmetic leveling of the floor if the slope bothers you.
I have worked in many houses where it is not uncommon for the perimeter foundation to settle about an inch, mostly cracked tiles and binding doors and doors that won't stay open with this type of settling and when I remodel, I just level out the floors when they are opened up, and reset the doors usually no other major issues.
Bottom line, if the problem is ongoing or if the settling has stopped and how much is it sloped, 1" may be O.K, more than that, I would be concerned.
If you are serious about the house, I would definitely hire a reputable home inspector
From the site I looked at, it looks like it is a complete remodel, so most of the issues from a settling foundation would likely be masked. Things that would have been a problem if doors and windows were not replaced would have been doors would not stay open by themselves, binding doors and windows due to settling, cracked walls, cracked tiles and all those problems could return if the house is still settling due to structural or foundation issues.
The driveway crack makes me thing the major settling took place away from the house foundation.
An inexpensive laser level would tell a lot if you are serious about the house, mainly If the foundation was settling, you would be able to tell if it is the perimeter foundation, or if there was settling and sagging towards the middle, and given that it does not appear to be a very big house, you may have undersized joists for too large a span if the sagging was towards the middle, for which you could add footers, a post and beam to prevent further settling, although in your area, that may be a huge task to get to footing depth. Here in Florida, it would be no big deal, since our foundations are only 12" deep. I think an inspection of the crawl space would be a good idea, to see what kind of foundation you have and the condition of the joists. Don't know if you have termites up there, but I lived in one crawl space type house, where termites ate every other joist, which ruined their integrity.
Another big issue is that if you jack up the floor to level it, you will cause new problems in reverse...doors, windows, cabinets, drywall cracks tiles if there is any. best you could hope for would be support the floor as it is to prevent further damage and do a cosmetic leveling of the floor if the slope bothers you.
I have worked in many houses where it is not uncommon for the perimeter foundation to settle about an inch, mostly cracked tiles and binding doors and doors that won't stay open with this type of settling and when I remodel, I just level out the floors when they are opened up, and reset the doors usually no other major issues.
Bottom line, if the problem is ongoing or if the settling has stopped and how much is it sloped, 1" may be O.K, more than that, I would be concerned.
If you are serious about the house, I would definitely hire a reputable home inspector
hire an inspector and have inspected and see how much it is to fix the issues if you are really interested in it. then use that number to negotiate.
Make sure you can get access underneath and see what is up to make an informed decision.
The foundation does have vents in the back of the house. I could peek through there the joist I saw there were what appeared to be 2x12 and looked to be in good shape. But obviously I couldn't see under the entire house because of the crawl space concern. Also I don't know how other states are but Missouri is common for older homes to settle we are a cave state so the ground moves and shifts. So I know alot of older homes have slanted and things like that.
There's only one way to know for certain-hire a structural engineer and have them make an assessment. A home inspector isn't going to get into structural details. I currently own almost 40 rental properties and have made my living buying, sometimes renovating, and renting out properties, and on about half of them I've had a structural engineer with me to assess the property before I made an offer.
You can't tell much from pictures-I've bought houses (and still own them as rentals) that looked worse than that but only took a couple thousand dollars in repairs. And I've also passed on houses that looked a lot better than that, but had serious structural issues that only manifested as a couple small cracks radiating up from the corner of an interior door. If it's not serious then the issues are a great negotiating tool. Most potential buyers don't want to touch something with structural issues, but if the issue is minor it's easy to fix it and re-level the property.
That would make a nice little rental unit assuming the issues aren't too severe. Around here that price is about right for a 3/1 that is that small, and it would rent for around $850/month. Add a bathroom and the rent goes up about $100/month.
You can't tell much from pictures-I've bought houses (and still own them as rentals) that looked worse than that but only took a couple thousand dollars in repairs. And I've also passed on houses that looked a lot better than that, but had serious structural issues that only manifested as a couple small cracks radiating up from the corner of an interior door. If it's not serious then the issues are a great negotiating tool. Most potential buyers don't want to touch something with structural issues, but if the issue is minor it's easy to fix it and re-level the property.
That would make a nice little rental unit assuming the issues aren't too severe. Around here that price is about right for a 3/1 that is that small, and it would rent for around $850/month. Add a bathroom and the rent goes up about $100/month.
Worst case is that the appraiser, rightly so, will mention possible deficiencies with regards to the foundation/sagging floors and the lender will request an engineers report.
AZjeff
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Originally Posted by Fawteen
There's only one way to know for certain-hire a structural engineer and have them make an assessment. .
What would that cost?
There's only one way to know for certain-hire a structural engineer and have them make an assessment. .
What would that cost?
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