Owners manual (GMC 2000 4 cylinder 5sp manual)calls for GM# 12377916 friction modified. I considering Penn synchromesh fluid as a subsitute, but upon reading the lable it is only suitable as a replacement for GM# 12345349 and # 12345577 not the fluid called out in my manual. Any recommendations?
manual transmission fluid
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MolaKule
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Sure, go with our MTL-P.
Penn synch is very good when fresh, but loses it's 'oomph' rather quickly, by most reports [and personal exp.].
I use Specialty Formulations Synchroglide, now.
If anyone knows of better add packs and base oils, please tell me.
I use Specialty Formulations Synchroglide, now.
If anyone knows of better add packs and base oils, please tell me.
I used the Amsoil MTF at 15k on a NV5600.Differance in DAY and NIGHT in shift quality and noise over factory fill.
That's not the right fluid so you might want to keep an eye on things.
You have an NVG1500 transmission which requires a fluid with a friction modifier.
The GM#12377916 is made specifically for use with the NVG1500 and has the friction modifier already added. Chevy dealers carry it for about 10US$ a quart.
Spitix, MTF meets that spec. I checked before I installed it, so far it has actually improved the shifting over the orginal fluid which to be fair had been in there for 96K. The MTF is friction modified.
Thans for the comment I will keep an eye on it.
Thans for the comment I will keep an eye on it.
Ghost:
The following info below has been around for awhile:
My concern is that Amsoil says that their MTF meets the specs for a bunch of transmissions, a "one-size-fits-all" lube.
However, most of the transmissions listed by Amsoil do not need friction modifier and Amsoil says that the MTF is friction modified.
This kind of confusion makes me a little nervous so I stick to the factory recommendations.
Thanks.
"Synchromesh transmission fluid is designed for certain manual transaxles and transmission used by General Motors and Chrysler corporations. It provides excellent oxidation stability, low temperature performance, excellent synchronizer performance and superior compatibility with yellow metals such as bronze, brass and copper components found in manual transaxles and transmissions. Synchromesh fluid is specifically formulated for transmissions used by General Motors and may be identified by GM part No. 12345349. This product also replaces GM part No. 12345577 used in Top Load four-speed manual transmission applications. Likewise, for Dodge truck applications, Synchromesh fluid is identified under Chrysler part No. 4874464.
"Synchromesh fluid was developed for use in the NV (New Venture) 3500 five-speed manual transmission used by both Chrysler and General Motors. This is the only product recommended for applications using the NV3500 Transmissions after 1991. Between 1988 and 1991 either Synchromesh or 5W-30 engine oil was acceptable in the NV3500.
Both automakers also use the NV1500 manual transmission, which also requires the Synchromesh fluid. However, the NV1500 transmission requires additional friction modifier to achieve proper performance and protection. General Motors part No.12377916 already has the friction modifier added. On the other hand, Dodge applications using the NV1500 require Chrysler part No.4874464, which does not have the additional friction modifier added. Therefore, an additional 0.2 pint (0.1 liter) of friction modifier must be added to Chrysler part No. 4874464. The friction modifier may be purchased at your local Dodge dealer."
Thanks for the info, but now you have me concerned. MTF is friction modified (whatever that means) and according to its spec it meets the GM requirement, but your concern is whether a true friction modified can meet requirement of transmissions that both call a FM and transmissions that don't specify a FM. At first I was going to use Pennzoil Syncromesh but it did not meet the spec called for and if I recall it did say that it was FM so now I am really confused.
All I know is it is in place and has significantly improved the shifting and seems to have quieted the unit.
All I know is it is in place and has significantly improved the shifting and seems to have quieted the unit.
I have an NVG1500 five-speed in my 2003 Jeep Wrangler. It shifts terribly and has since new, lots of loud clunks and clanks. Dealer says it's "normal".
I spent hours researching the proper lube for this transmission (even the dealer didn't know) and spent well over a hundred US$ trying different lubes.
Finally I settled on the GM #12377916 based on information I received directly from the manufacturer of the transmission. It still shifts like sh!t.
I still have 50,000 miles left on a 70,000 mile drivetrain warranty and am not taking any chances on having the dealer deny warranty coverage because of the "wrong" lube being used.
This is not an issue for you.
Thanks.
MolaKule
Staff member
All transmissions with composite or brass synchromesh assemblies have some type of friction modifier built into the fluid to modify the synchro engagement characteristics.
Jeeps generally require one of two fluids; a fluid of 75W85 or 9.0 to 11 cSt (our SynchroGlide or MTL-P) or the more heavy duty trannies require the 75W90 fluids such as our MTL-P.
The NV3550's generally require a 75W85 fluid (MTL-P), and the 1500's require a GL such as our MTL-R, a 75W90.
According to my check-chart, the NV3500's require a fluid similar to our SynchroGlide (below the Mason-Dixon line) or the MTFGlide (above the Yankee line).
Jeeps generally require one of two fluids; a fluid of 75W85 or 9.0 to 11 cSt (our SynchroGlide or MTL-P) or the more heavy duty trannies require the 75W90 fluids such as our MTL-P.
The NV3550's generally require a 75W85 fluid (MTL-P), and the 1500's require a GL such as our MTL-R, a 75W90.
According to my check-chart, the NV3500's require a fluid similar to our SynchroGlide (below the Mason-Dixon line) or the MTFGlide (above the Yankee line).
MolaKule
Staff member
That should have read:
Jeeps generally require one of two fluids; a fluid of 75W85 or 9.0 to 11 cSt (our SynchroGlide or MTL-P) or the more heavy duty trannies require the 75W90 fluids such as our MTL-R.
I must admit to being thoroughly confused now.
So, I'm going to stick with the GM#12377916 because it says right on the bottle that it's intended for the NVG1500 transmission which I have in my Jeep.
The following might provide some additional insight. I don't know how old it is but suspect at least a couple of years.
"Synchromesh transmission fluid is designed for certain manual transaxles and transmission used by General Motors and Chrysler corporations. It provides excellent oxidation stability, low temperature performance, excellent synchronizer performance and superior compatibility with yellow metals such as bronze, brass and copper components found in manual transaxles and transmissions. Synchromesh fluid is specifically formulated for transmissions used by General Motors and may be identified by GM part No. 12345349. This product also replaces GM part No. 12345577 used in Top Load four-speed manual transmission applications. Likewise, for Dodge truck applications, Synchromesh fluid is identified under Chrysler part No. 4874464.
Synchromesh fluid was developed for use in the NV (New Venture) 3500 five-speed manual transmission used by both Chrysler and General Motors. This is the only product recommended for applications using the NV3500 Transmissions after 1991. Between 1988 and 1991 either Synchromesh or 5W-30 engine oil was acceptable in the NV3500.
Both automakers also use the NV1500 manual transmission, which also requires the Synchromesh fluid. However, the NV1500 transmission requires additional friction modifier to achieve proper performance and protection. General Motors part No.12377916 already has the friction modifier added. On the other hand, Dodge applications using the NV1500 require Chrysler part No.4874464, which does not have the additional friction modifier added. Therefore, an additional 0.2 pint (0.1 liter) of friction modifier must be added to Chrysler part No. 4874464. The friction modifier may be purchased at your local Dodge dealer.
Don Johnson (Don Johnson is the author of the above-parenthesis are mine for clarity. SpitIX) is the vice president of Product Engineering at Pennzoil Products Co. He is a member of the API Lubricants Committee. He is a member of the Society Of Engineers (SAE) and the Society of Tribologists and Lubricant Engineers (STLE). Readers may write to him at: P.O. Box 2967, Houston, TX 77252-2967
Thanks.
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