The oil has been changed 3 times while this filter was in service: 10000 km, 10000 km, and 5000 km. The filter looks good, the ADBV is pliable but I found some soot deposits on every part of the filter. Especially on the base plate. It is black on the engine side. Looks like some parts attracted more soot and some less.
Fram XG7317 after 25000 km.
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Just for the information, could you clarify at what points you changed the oil?
Oh wait you meant, after 10,000 km you changed it, then after another 10,000 km another change, and then after another 5000?
too bad I can't delete the post
Just for American posters who aren't into metric, 10,000 km is about 6200 miles; 25,000 km is just over 15,000 miles
Oh wait you meant, after 10,000 km you changed it, then after another 10,000 km another change, and then after another 5000?
too bad I can't delete the post
Just for American posters who aren't into metric, 10,000 km is about 6200 miles; 25,000 km is just over 15,000 miles
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You are correct: 10k+10k+5k=25k. The car has 88000 km on the odometer. Doesn't consume any oil.
I'm sorry but, I'm not going to pass new oil through a dirty filter. It just doesn't make any sense.
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Dr. Dave here saw decreasing wear (verified through UOAs) and cleaner oil (verified through particle counts) with a filter that was on his vehicle for 42,000 miles. Now I'm not going to run it that long on my cars, but I am moving both my cars to multiple OCIs per FCI.
Nice photos.
I plan to run a Fram Ultra to 30K miles but with 5 oil changes. If no sludge in engine, 4 years on filter is OK.
I plan to run a Fram Ultra to 30K miles but with 5 oil changes. If no sludge in engine, 4 years on filter is OK.
Yeah, as particles build up on a filter the filtration efficiency will increase.
Pressure drop will increase and therefore flow decrease, but as long as a filter is designed for extended use you will be ok.
So yes, wear should decrease.
Pushing things beyond filter/vehicle recommendations is at your own risk. But if you know what you're doing you'll be fine and perhaps better off.
Pressure drop will increase and therefore flow decrease, but as long as a filter is designed for extended use you will be ok.
So yes, wear should decrease.
Pushing things beyond filter/vehicle recommendations is at your own risk. But if you know what you're doing you'll be fine and perhaps better off.
You guys suit yourselves, I'm not going to be doing it. That filter is just plain nasty.
I left a Fram XG 10060 for two 7,000 mile intervals. During the third interval I noticed an increase in time for the oil pressure to come up to 40 psi upon startup. It was taking five seconds to reach 40 psi. I removed the filter and put on a new one and topped up the oil. It then took the normal three seconds to get full pressure and was repeatable. I'm thinking two intervals of 7,000 miles works for me. Thanks for the post.
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I forgot to mention that the filter was in service for 5 years. The vehicle is used occasionally so normally I change the oil once in 2 years. But the last oil was used only for 1 year and indeed the oil was not impressive unless other factors affected it. Actually when I opened the air filter housing the filter was deformed partially and I doubt the seal was perfect in the deformed area. Quite a piece of junk for an OEM filter (Purflux). The media was made from toilet paper.
+ 2 I wont run clean oil through a dirty filter ,, for an extra 5 bucks for filter I sleep better
It really depends on how clean the engine is-just helped my brother with a higher mileage Civic (200K) that he bought for my nephew-it had a Microguard that had been on for 3K that had more carbon in it than my xB did at 20K. Car had been shor5 tripped & looked somewhat sludged under the VC-there won't be any extending OCIs on that one, it'll be PYB & 3K OCIs until it cleans it up!
What do you think was the cause of the delay? Probably not the filter clogging up--a faulty adbv?
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
I left a Fram XG 10060 for two 7,000 mile intervals. During the third interval I noticed an increase in time for the oil pressure to come up to 40 psi upon startup. It was taking five seconds to reach 40 psi. I removed the filter and put on a new one and topped up the oil. It then took the normal three seconds to get full pressure and was repeatable. I'm thinking two intervals of 7,000 miles works for me. Thanks for the post.
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
I left a Fram XG 10060 for two 7,000 mile intervals. During the third interval I noticed an increase in time for the oil pressure to come up to 40 psi upon startup. It was taking five seconds to reach 40 psi. I removed the filter and put on a new one and topped up the oil. It then took the normal three seconds to get full pressure and was repeatable. I'm thinking two intervals of 7,000 miles works for me. Thanks for the post.
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Originally Posted by Davejam
Yeah, as particles build up on a filter the filtration efficiency will increase.
Pressure drop will increase and therefore flow decrease, but as long as a filter is designed for extended use you will be ok.
So yes, wear should decrease.
Pushing things beyond filter/vehicle recommendations is at your own risk. But if you know what you're doing you'll be fine and perhaps better off.
Oil filters and air filters behave differently when they start loading up and the delta-p really starts to increase. Oil filters experience way more delta-p than air filters.
Studies show that some oil filters can start sloughing off captured particulate as the delta-p becomes higher and higher from debris loading (see graph below). So in that case, the filter is actually becoming less efficient as it loads up. A filter would have to be very good at retaining captured debris and become more efficient as the delta-p becomes higher.
I wouldn't run a filter much past the rated use indicated by the manufacturer unless it was on a very clean engine. As far as the OP's use ... 25K kilometers is still within Fram's rating.
And just because the delta-p becomes higher doesn't mean you're losing oil flow. Oiling systems use a positive displacement oil pump, so if the filter becomes a bit more restrictive the oil pump still forces the same volume of oil through it. Engine oiling systems are not like a water system in your house where a clogged filter will reduce the flow out of the water faucet.
Yeah, as particles build up on a filter the filtration efficiency will increase.
Pressure drop will increase and therefore flow decrease, but as long as a filter is designed for extended use you will be ok.
So yes, wear should decrease.
Pushing things beyond filter/vehicle recommendations is at your own risk. But if you know what you're doing you'll be fine and perhaps better off.
Oil filters and air filters behave differently when they start loading up and the delta-p really starts to increase. Oil filters experience way more delta-p than air filters.
Studies show that some oil filters can start sloughing off captured particulate as the delta-p becomes higher and higher from debris loading (see graph below). So in that case, the filter is actually becoming less efficient as it loads up. A filter would have to be very good at retaining captured debris and become more efficient as the delta-p becomes higher.
I wouldn't run a filter much past the rated use indicated by the manufacturer unless it was on a very clean engine. As far as the OP's use ... 25K kilometers is still within Fram's rating.
And just because the delta-p becomes higher doesn't mean you're losing oil flow. Oiling systems use a positive displacement oil pump, so if the filter becomes a bit more restrictive the oil pump still forces the same volume of oil through it. Engine oiling systems are not like a water system in your house where a clogged filter will reduce the flow out of the water faucet.
Filter's condition seems fine, it held up well so that interval should be a good one for you....with a nod to Snagglefoot's observation about psi taking longer to build.
I would be more concerned with the oil's condition...looks like the beginnings of sludge buildup, indicating the oil has been run too long. Did you ever have a UOA performed?
Also - what oil did you run, and in what engine?
I would be more concerned with the oil's condition...looks like the beginnings of sludge buildup, indicating the oil has been run too long. Did you ever have a UOA performed?
Also - what oil did you run, and in what engine?
Probably it won't be very interesting for you to know all the details since you will never find these motor oils in American/Canadian stores. And the car make won't tell you much. It is a Renault Logan with a 1.4 l engine. The oils are as following: 1-st and 2-nd OCI's of 10K km and 2 years each - Lotos synthetic blend 10W-40, made in Poland; 3-d OCI of 5K km and 1 year - Lukoil Luxe synthetic blend 10W-40, made in Romania. Maybe the oil should have been changed every year. I have put fully synthetic 5W-40 Prista Ultra, made in Bulgaria, this time. Hope it can last 2 years. No UOAs on this car.
Im happy to see this, thats the filter that I run on my atv.
Originally Posted by paulri
What do you think was the cause of the delay? Probably not the filter clogging up--a faulty adbv?
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
I left a Fram XG 10060 for two 7,000 mile intervals. During the third interval I noticed an increase in time for the oil pressure to come up to 40 psi upon startup. It was taking five seconds to reach 40 psi. I removed the filter and put on a new one and topped up the oil. It then took the normal three seconds to get full pressure and was repeatable. I'm thinking two intervals of 7,000 miles works for me. Thanks for the post.
I'm not sure. It might have pressured up and then opened up the by-pass. The pressure sensor is way up at the intake manifold, so it's not an accurate indicator of what's happening between the pump and the oil filter. Looking for other suggestions.
What do you think was the cause of the delay? Probably not the filter clogging up--a faulty adbv?
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
I left a Fram XG 10060 for two 7,000 mile intervals. During the third interval I noticed an increase in time for the oil pressure to come up to 40 psi upon startup. It was taking five seconds to reach 40 psi. I removed the filter and put on a new one and topped up the oil. It then took the normal three seconds to get full pressure and was repeatable. I'm thinking two intervals of 7,000 miles works for me. Thanks for the post.
I'm not sure. It might have pressured up and then opened up the by-pass. The pressure sensor is way up at the intake manifold, so it's not an accurate indicator of what's happening between the pump and the oil filter. Looking for other suggestions.
Originally Posted by Davejam
Yeah, as particles build up on a filter the filtration efficiency will increase.
I see this posted from time to time, but never any actual data to support that statement. When you do a simple google search on the subject, you find plenty of data that suggests otherwise.
EDIT: ZeeoSix beat me to it. I guess I should've read the whole thread.
Yeah, as particles build up on a filter the filtration efficiency will increase.
I see this posted from time to time, but never any actual data to support that statement. When you do a simple google search on the subject, you find plenty of data that suggests otherwise.
EDIT: ZeeoSix beat me to it. I guess I should've read the whole thread.
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