2004 Honda CR-V ATF Question

[Dad2leia]

Ok, I've read the other Honda transmission posts and now pose this question.

Is there anything "magical" about the Z-1 fluid specification of the Honda ATF that prevents me from using something better, like a full synthetic ATF, or at least something better engineered. After talking to my particular dealer, of course they stated to use nothing but the Honda fluid, but they even went so far as to say that they WOULD NOT be responsible for any problems that would arise from using a full synthetic fluid.

Apparently, people were bringing in synthetic fluid for them to install, and after a few thousand miles on the mix, the transmissions developed a distinctive whine noise and were shifting very hard. I really didn't feel like arguing with the service manager, but just dropped it and put in the Honda fluid myself.

I do know that Molakule is putting together some very good products, and would be interested if he's formulated and ATF that would work in my transmission, but if there are others, be it better or worse, out there for the choosing from, kindly give some advice and input please...

 

[AcuraTech]

No one really knows what makes Honda trans fluid special. Some people claim that the fluid cannot be that great because of the recent number of failures with the 2000-2003 transmissions. The thing is that these failures are related to a mechanical problem and not a fluid problem.

Amsoil claims a ATF-Z1 spec. I am not saying it is not but I think the Honda ATF would work well if the change interval is kept at about 15k (that is how often I would do it). Either way alot of people never change the trans fluid so I think a reasonable interval with a quality fluid would keep your trans very happy.

 

[Dad2leia]

AcuraTech, I did my own service (meaning just removing the plug and draining what would come out, about 5 quarts) at 28,000 miles. I wanted some fresh fluid in there for a trip that I was taking with my family.

If I went with a better transmission fluid, do you have a way to "flush" out the old, without having to remove lines. I've been reading about the three quick drain, drive for about 20 miles, then redrain, replace for three times to get out most of the old fluid. Would this method be satifactory if I replaced the Honda ATF with a synthetic based ATF?

 

[Ken2]

Automatic transmission fluids contain friction modifiers that match the friction characteristics of the clutch material inside the transmissions. Honda'a Z-1 ATF is suitable for their transmissions.

Here's part of the data sheet for Mobil 3309 ATF (not for Hondas, but you get the idea)
# Controlled friction properties for smooth and efficient transmission of power across all normal temperature ranges in specified Aisin-Warner slip-controlled lock-up automatic transmissions.
# Helps to control transmission shudder and provide excellent vehicle driveability.

Your alternatives are to use a friction modifying supplement like Lubegard HFM black-bottle supplement with Dexron-III ATF (synthetic or not), or an all-transmission fluid like Schaeffer's #204SAT or Amsoil ATF.


Ken

 

[CharBaby]

I would stay with the Honda ATF-Z1. For the most part it is reasonably priced,(at least in my area), and it's supposed to be a very good product. Several Honda Techs,(personal friends of mine) that I have spoken to really swear by it. These are 20-25 year Honda Techs if that means anything!

 

[PandaBear]

When I got coupons from my local dealer, they advertise the ATF for $2.50 each quart, and I would buy and only uses that.

Now if your local dealer is charging you $9 or so a quart, then you have to think, whether there are other alternatives. From what I know most Universal fluid have internal test that claims their fluid will work on Honda ATF Z1 spec'ed tranny, and will stand behind them if problem arise.

 

[SpitIX]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dad2leia:
Ok, I've read the other Honda transmission posts and now pose this question.
Is there anything "magical" about the Z-1 fluid specification of the Honda ATF that prevents me from using something better, like a full synthetic ATF, or at least something better engineered. After talking to my particular dealer, of course they stated to use nothing but the Honda fluid, but they even went so far as to say that they WOULD NOT be responsible for any problems that would arise from using a full synthetic fluid. Apparently, people were bringing in synthetic fluid for them to install, and after a few thousand miles on the mix, the transmissions developed a distinctive whine noise and were shifting very hard. I really didn't feel like arguing with the service manager, but just dropped it and put in the Honda fluid myself.
I do know that Molakule is putting together some very good products, and would be interested if he's formulated and ATF that would work in my transmission, but if there are others, be it better or worse, out there for the choosing from, kindly give some advice and input please...

---

Here's some advice based on a number of years of experience with a fistfull of Honda vehicles.
Stick with Honda ATF-Z1.
You will not be sorry.
Nobody is licensed by Honda to make an equilivent ATF for Honda vehicles, despite what you might read or hear.
Thanks.

 

[AcuraTech]

Honda has a TSB that says not to flush the trannies with a standard flush machine.

We have a flush machine at our dealership but it is only used to flush the cooler when the trannys are replaced. If you want to get rid of the old fluid do the drain/fill/drive/repeat 3 times. That will get most of the old fluid out. By the time you dump the fluid the third time it should be a nice healthy cherry red color, indicating the fluid coming out is mostly new.

 

[AcuraTech]

BTW, the TSB says: "many flush systems require or encourage the use of solvents, additives, and non-Honda ATF..."

By taking it to a dealer they would not sell you a flush because the machine they own (if they have one) is not designed to flush a tranny! By taking it elsewhere, the above stated may just happen.

 

[Ray H]

So-called "all vehicle" ATF and correction ATF supplements to be used with Dexron III ATF are only their respective manufacturers' best guesses at friction modifier properties, and base fluid high temperature and shear resistance properties. Whether in the real world these sellers would stand behind an expensive transmission rebuild in the event of failure is not a prospect I'd care to bet my checkbook on. I drive a Hyundai, and while not germain to an Accord discussion, the following example may nevertheless be worth reading. On one Hyundai discussion group a hapless Sonata owner had a routine transmission fluid change done at 30,000 miles (the severe service fluid change recommendation) by an AAMCO shop. The AAMCO tech assured him that Dexron III and AAMCO's supplement for Asian trannies (reported on BITOG to be rebranded Lubegard "Black") would be "just as good" as genuine Hyundai/Mitsubishi/KIA SP-III ATF. Four months later the trannie tanked and Hyundai refused the 100,000 mile/10 yr. warranty claim since the owner mentioned that he'd had his transmission serviced at AAMCO and showed the dealer's service writer the receipt that clearly indicated what type of fluid and supplement used. (The service writer, in turn, showed the car's owner an internal Hyundai TSB [03-40-019, issued October 2003] that use of non-specified ATFs and/or any supplements would void the factory warranty on the transmission.) I can't verify that Honda has a similar provision regarding use of other than the company's proprietary ATF, but I question whether anyone can establish on the basis of Honda's written powertrain warranty or internal TSBs that they don't, either.

 

[Dad2leia]

I was trying to avoid saying this, but those @#$% Japanese transmissions!!!! I'll give a list of the fluids that I was considering for the transmission, and then you guys can comment on that: Torco, Synergyn, Neo, Specialty Formulations, and Redline (yes, I like the "gourmet" products).

Yea to using one of these, or stay far far away and do more frequent changes with the Honda ATF?