Digital Camera Recommendations

I was at Sam's today and they had some fair priced kits on the Nikon D3500 and D5600. I think they were doing $600 on a D5600 kit with an 18-55 and either 55-200 or 55-300-I didn't look enough to see which but for the price I'd guess the 55-200. I think that every Nikon crop sensor shooter should also own the wonderful little $200 35mm f/1.8, but that doesn't necessarily need to be bought at the same time.

I'll be perfectly honest and say that-as a long time Nikon user-I'm not a fan of the D3500. Somewhere along the way in the D3xxx series(I think the D3400) Nikon deleted a small switch on the lens mount that disables metering with a whole lot of perfectly good lenses(those with aperture rings). To be honest, it's probably not a big deal to the target buyer of this camera, especially given that most of the lenses that lost metering already wouldn't autofocus on that series bodies. With that said, the D5x00 bodies do get you a swiveling LCD screen-that's not something I necessarily personally use but at the same time I've been in more than one situation where I would have found it useful.

I do dislike the lack of a top LCD and also the single control wheel on the D3000 and D5000 series bodies, but will also freely admit that's probably not a deal killer for everyone. If I were in the market for a new crop sensor camera, I'd buy a D7200, which is a generation old but in some ways I think it's a better camera than the D7500(I like that it has an AI follower tab) and at least a couple of months back there were some great deals on it.
 
The refurbished D5600 is at a decent price. I wish I could find a decent deal on the 18-140mm. I have the older 18-105mm so don't really need the 140, but it'd be nice to have a little extra reach. Most of the time I've been picking up refurbished bodies and I've been checking the shutter count and pretty much all the time they've either been just a few or at least under 1000 and they've worked for years afterwards. I think D5600 is in the $430 range for just the body. I have the 55-200 and the 70-300, but hardly ever use them, my basic one is the 18-105 or the Sigma 10-20 although now Nikon has a VR 10-20mm. The 35mm 1.8 is fun to use too, but don't break that out too often.
 
Originally Posted by Wolf359
The refurbished D5600 is at a decent price. I wish I could find a decent deal on the 18-140mm. I have the older 18-105mm so don't really need the 140, but it'd be nice to have a little extra reach. Most of the time I've been picking up refurbished bodies and I've been checking the shutter count and pretty much all the time they've either been just a few or at least under 1000 and they've worked for years afterwards. I think D5600 is in the $430 range for just the body. I have the 55-200 and the 70-300, but hardly ever use them, my basic one is the 18-105 or the Sigma 10-20 although now Nikon has a VR 10-20mm. The 35mm 1.8 is fun to use too, but don't break that out too often.


I rarely buy new cameras or lenses(or any other photo stuff for that matter), and honestly I don't shy away from buying high shutter count bodies.

I have a D300s with over 450K on it-I don't TRUST it for anything, but keep it around as a curiosity since it still works.

Right before the D850 was announced, D800s were routinely trading in the $1300-1500 range. I bought one from the local shop with 150K on it for a shade under $1K, only to have something(not the shutter) break on it a day after buying it. I took it back to the shop, and they agreed to fix it on their cost. The repairer that they used, though, advised replacing the shutter since it added ~$150 to the repair bill and they had to take the camera apart enough that they would only charge the cost of the part to replace it. I agreed to pay that part of the repair, so ended up with a D800 with a new shutter(they reset the count to 0) and CLA for $1150. Of course, 2 years later, you can buy nice ones all day for ~$900, but I've also had it for two years of taking photos.
 
There is NO new point and shoot digital camera for $400 worth purchasing. That market is on death row. Just get a better cellphone instead. If you still want a P&S camera, then pick up a Sony RX model in your price range and call it a day.

Now if you are willing to go mirror less or even DSLR and pick up older/used model, you can *start* bare bones with $400 budget but for a truly usable system, you will quickly find yourself spending lot more than that and it is no longer a replacement for your old venerable Fuji camera.

I am talking from experience here.
 
Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2
My current 3.2MP Fuji Finepix 3800 (15+ years old) takes MUCH better photos than any cell phone camera I've ever used,

I think you have not used even a good cell phone camera, let alone a high quality cell phone camera.
 
Originally Posted by Vikas
I think you have not used even a good cell phone camera, let alone a high quality cell phone camera.


You think wrong then. Take any cellphone photo and blow it up to full resolution on a high resolution screen. There's a limit to the amount of detail they can take in due to the small sensor size and it shows up as artifacts when the picture is blown up. There's simply no comparison between a cell phone camera and a dedicated digital camera.

Don't get me wrong, the photos taken on newer phones are decent, certainly adequate for Facebook, even photo albums. But if you want a clear image at high resolution, I've yet to find a phone camera (perhaps they're out there, but my $1300 phone is not one of them!) that isn't a disappointment.
 
Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2
But if you want a clear image at high resolution, I've yet to find a phone camera (perhaps they're out there, but my $1300 phone is not one of them!) that isn't a disappointment.
Which phone are we talking about specifically?

Quote
Take any cellphone photo and blow it up to full resolution on a high resolution screen. There's a limit to the amount of detail they can take in due to the small sensor size and it shows up as artifacts when the picture is blown up. There's simply no comparison between a cell phone camera and a dedicated digital camera.
Pixel peeping on a monitor isn't necessarily the best way to gauge camera quality. If you downsize the phone's 8-12 Mexapixel image down to 3 Megapixel (same resolution as your Fuji), you will most likely find the phone picture is better, unless your phone's camera is broken.

Better yet, take a photo with each and print it. Then compare.

And as far as sensor size, if we are talking about a recent iPhone here such as XS, it has a 5.6 x 4.2 mm sensor, while your Fuji camera has a 5.3 x 4.0 mm sensor. On top of that, the iPhone has a lot more powerful post processing engine.


From personal experience, I can tell you my Pixel 2 takes much better photos than my Panasonic LX7 that I paid $400 for some 5-6 years ago, even if I shoot in RAW. The only conditions under which the LX7 might edge out my phone is when shooting long exposure under very poor lighting.
 
I have used a variety of high end Nikons, ranging from the original D1(no, I didn't use it when it was new/current) up to the D800. The D800 isn't state of the art, but the 36mp Sony-made sensor in it is still pretty darn good and holds its own.

My month-old iPhone, an Xr, blows away a lot of early DSLRs in terms of both detail captured and low-light performance(that phone is also a big step up from my 4 year old iPhone 6). Of course,a DSLR can somewhat compensate for low light performance by using faster lenses, but sensors have gotten REALLY REALLY good at minimizing noise in the past ~10 years.

In terms of detail recorded and comparing to Nikon cameras, the D2X and D300 with good glass is about as good-to my eye-as my iPhone. The D3/D700 blow the iPhone away in low light performance with roughly comparable detail rendition. Older cameras like the original D1, D1H, D1X, D2H, and D100 are easily outclassed, while a D200 is probably splitting hairs and still has the awful high ISO performance of a CCD.

Of course, you can't REALLY directly compare the two, as ILC cameras allow you to pick a lens appropriate to what you're doing but don't unobtrusively fit in your pocket. There's absolutely no way that I'm getting something equivalent to the FOV a 14mm lens gives on a 24mmx36mm camera(whether recording on a slab of silicone or a piece of gelatin-coated acetate) in a cell phone camera. Similarly, I'm not getting the equivalent of a 200mm lens(whether on 24x36mm, 16.9x24mm, or even 56mmx56mm) on a cell phone camera, and if I NEED that much or more reach an ILC camera makes a lot more sense.

Of course, you also have the fact that inherent in small sensors-whether cell phones or compact digitals-is the fact that they seemingly have unlimited depth of field. This is convenient at times, and a royal pain at others.

Always pick the right camera for the job, and that might well be a cell phone. I'm visiting someone tomorrow to have the focusing screen in my Hasselblad replaced, and more than likely I'm going to use my cell phone to photograph the "surgery."
 
Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2
Originally Posted by Vikas
I think you have not used even a good cell phone camera, let alone a high quality cell phone camera.


You think wrong then. Take any cellphone photo and blow it up to full resolution on a high resolution screen. There's a limit to the amount of detail they can take in due to the small sensor size and it shows up as artifacts when the picture is blown up. There's simply no comparison between a cell phone camera and a dedicated digital camera.

Don't get me wrong, the photos taken on newer phones are decent, certainly adequate for Facebook, even photo albums. But if you want a clear image at high resolution, I've yet to find a phone camera (perhaps they're out there, but my $1300 phone is not one of them!) that isn't a disappointment.

Are you also pixel peeping your 13 year old camera to compare? Have you tried to compare downrezed from the cellphone image with your impressive 13 year old digital camera?
 
My pet peeve has been (still continues) that technically a camera company could easily come up with a great point and shoot camera to rival a cellphone and price under $300 but only if they really wanted to. Unfortunately, they have realized that there is no market for such a camera and they don't even try. Sony will sell you one for low low price of $1300 though.

This assumes that your Fuji was P&S camera and now you want to replace it with a similar one. I still have, in box, all accessories included, Fuji FinePix 2300 a 2MP camera purchased in 2000, sitting at my desk. I will sell you for low low price of $100 if you are interested :) I had printed 8x10 off that camera of my friend's baby photo. They had it on display during the kid's high-school graduation.

But technology marches on. Iphone 7+ takes pictures which are not that far off from Sony mirror-less with the kit lens.
 
If I have the time later, I'll photograph the same scene with my Nikon D3 and my iPhone Xr, both of which are 12mp, and include the 100% crops in them. My guess is that(if I strip the Exif data) the images will look subtly different but that no one will be able to tell which took which photo. If I repeated the same with my D800(36mp) with a high quality lens at optimum aperture, you likely WOULD see a difference, but there again I doubt it would be dramatic. That's especially true at "reasonable" viewing sizes.
 
Originally Posted by Vikas
Are you also pixel peeping your 13 year old camera to compare? Have you tried to compare downrezed from the cellphone image with your impressive 13 year old digital camera?


I'm simply comparing the two side by side on a 4k computer monitor. I'm not trying the find flaws with the cellphone camera, but the difference is readily apparent -- no effort required.
 
OP did you ever pick a new camera? It's out of your price range by my vote is that $500 Panasonic LX10
thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2
Originally Posted by Vikas
Are you also pixel peeping your 13 year old camera to compare? Have you tried to compare downrezed from the cellphone image with your impressive 13 year old digital camera?


I'm simply comparing the two side by side on a 4k computer monitor. I'm not trying the find flaws with the cellphone camera, but the difference is readily apparent -- no effort required.

Can u post some comparative shots?
 
" technically a camera company could easily come up with a great point and shoot camera to rival a cellphone and price under $300 but only if they really wanted to."

Not even close. Try taking an econ 101 course.

" Iphone 7+ takes pictures which are not that far off from Sony mirror-less with the kit lens."

Please see an optometrist.
 
Originally Posted by greenjp
OP did you ever pick a new camera? It's out of your price range by my vote is that $500 Panasonic LX10
thumbsup2.gif



I did get a new one, Panasonic Lumix DMC-G85. It was a fair bit more than I wanted to spend, but I decided the dual OIS and 4K support would be nice features to have on a camera that I plan to own for many, many years. Wanted to future proof as much as possible. Has good reviews, nice auto features for just pointing and shooting, but has many advanced features with a learning curve I'm just beginning to climb!

Took the camera with me on vacation a couple weeks ago and I am impressed. The only thing I dislike about it is without flash it shoots rather poorly in low light conditions (such as indoors with warm/incandescent type lighting)-- my Iphone XS Max is probably better in that regard. But as far as detail, especially in outdoor shots with good lighting, it blows the Iphone camera away. Takes motion shots especially well, had it on the boat with us with the kids tubing on the lake, and you can make out every drop of water (slight exaggeration but you get the point).

I'll try to take some shots side by side with old Fuji vs Iphone, vs Lumix in the next day or two and post them for comparison.
 
G85 is a really nice camera, good choice. You can solve that indoor shooting problem by getting a wide aperture prime lens. There are several to choose from in the system. I've got Panasonic's 20mm f1.7, they also make a 15mm and 25mm f1.7 and a 25mm f1.4. Olympus has a few in the same range as well. You can pick one of these up used for
jeff
 
The best way to shoot indoors is with a bounce (indirect) flash, especially if you're shooting moving subjects (kids, pets, etc.).

Getting an external flash was probably the single best accessory I ever bought, as far as indoor shooting goes.
 
Last edited:
Here's a "tight" crop of a photo I took a bit earlier this evening with both my Nikon D3s(12mp full-frame) and iPhone XR. I set the 24-120 f/4 lens on the D3s to 28mm, which gives roughly the same FOV as the iPhone camera.

Anyone care to take a guess as to which camera took which photo?

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
 
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