My 14 dart gt got new nokian all season tires 4,000 miles ago. The inside edge of both rear tires is already starting to be feathered. The alignment was done when the tires were replaced they didn't adjust the rears because they said the rest checked out and was in spec tire pressures are at 40 even the place card says 36/38 I believe. The suspension is all right the car has 72,000 miles the shocks are dry. What do you guys recommend?
Rear tire inside edge feathering
- Thread starter ram_man
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How is the camber on these cars?
Rear tires on front wheel drive cars often wear as you described. It is usually a combination of too much negative rear camber combined with too much rear toe in. These factory alignment settings give high speed stability and keep the car from over-steering and possibly spinning when traction limits are pushed. It is a safety thing, car makers always want the front end to lose grip before the rears.
Your alignment is probably within the factory specified range, but that will still chew up tires. You can rotate tires VERY frequently, or ask for a non-factory spec alignment, looking for near zero toe and minimal negative camber ( if these are adjustable on your car ) , or just accept that FWD cars often wear the rear tires like that.
Your alignment is probably within the factory specified range, but that will still chew up tires. You can rotate tires VERY frequently, or ask for a non-factory spec alignment, looking for near zero toe and minimal negative camber ( if these are adjustable on your car ) , or just accept that FWD cars often wear the rear tires like that.
The factory recommended rotation is 10,000 miles but if I went that long they'd probably be junk.
I've owned a lot of fwd cars and never had one be this bad. I know that fwd cars do this if rotation aren't kept up but heck I'd have to rotate every 3,000 miles or so probably to keep them from starting to kill the tires.
I've owned a lot of fwd cars and never had one be this bad. I know that fwd cars do this if rotation aren't kept up but heck I'd have to rotate every 3,000 miles or so probably to keep them from starting to kill the tires.
The factory alignment specs are often very wide, and this can be a problem. Your car can technically be within the spec, but still not be aligned very good. A smart tech will try and tweak the numbers, a lazy one will say good enough, and do nothing more.
You have had way too many issues with tires on this car. Either the ppl u see suck or the car sucks. Never heard of so many tire issues.
Originally Posted by geeman789
The factory alignment specs are often very wide, and this can be a problem. Your car can technically be within the spec, but still not be aligned very good. A smart tech will try and tweak the numbers, a lazy one will say good enough, and do nothing more.
Like geeman says, it is usually a combination of too much negative camber and too much toe in. My 2007 Sportage factory specs for the rear camber was -0.55 degree plus or minus 30'; and toe-in at 4.6 mm +3 -1 mm. Those specs ate rear tires rather quickly, so much so that Kia much later quietly advised dealers to change toe recommendation to 0. I recommend you try something similar.
The factory alignment specs are often very wide, and this can be a problem. Your car can technically be within the spec, but still not be aligned very good. A smart tech will try and tweak the numbers, a lazy one will say good enough, and do nothing more.
Like geeman says, it is usually a combination of too much negative camber and too much toe in. My 2007 Sportage factory specs for the rear camber was -0.55 degree plus or minus 30'; and toe-in at 4.6 mm +3 -1 mm. Those specs ate rear tires rather quickly, so much so that Kia much later quietly advised dealers to change toe recommendation to 0. I recommend you try something similar.
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"In spec" doesn't mean anything.
Got a printout?
What did the tires that came off look like?
Inside edge is either too much toe out or excessive negative camber. Generally camber has to be fairly extreme to wear tires significantly...
Got a printout?
What did the tires that came off look like?
Inside edge is either too much toe out or excessive negative camber. Generally camber has to be fairly extreme to wear tires significantly...
Have you tried Plaza Tire for your alignment. I am near Paducah,KY and they have aligned 2 of my vehicles. The alignment is so good that I am seeing no storage wear on my 2 vehicles. They offer a lifetime alignment that allows for realignment every 6 months if you feel it necessary.
Get a printout always, pre and post alignment specs. Keep it for your records, that way you can tell if it's going out of alignment fast (or not).
Sounds like toe is off. But I think FWD cars "often" use a bit of toe on the rear to keep things from wandering around. I do 5k rotations as a result as it seems like 10k always has feathering going on.
Sounds like toe is off. But I think FWD cars "often" use a bit of toe on the rear to keep things from wandering around. I do 5k rotations as a result as it seems like 10k always has feathering going on.
Listen to Geeman & Berniedd & Duck
Get the rear toe reduced to minimum IN . Notice a lot of printouts are in minutes not 100ths of a degree now - Recall from geometry class there are 60 min to one degree. ( a Sexagesimal System from the ancient Sumerians five thousand years ago - now Iraq - the Cradle of Civilization of our modern world.
Don't feel too bad - I was just at the VW dealer and the faked my tire wear and pressure numbers on their courtesy safety check list.
They had my tires listed at 9/32 tread depth and they are 6/32 ! One- half of the serviceable tread worn off in 4900 miles 7 ,months!
I had it in for a Alignment in April and they said they couldn't get the left caster in but its is OK.
Time for a sit down with the Owner or Service manager. This is a lease I'm not buying tires for a 20K miles lease!
Again just get the rears toed in minimally (about 0 Deg/10 Minutes total IN) see how that does before you go after camber. Some cheap tires just wear fast. The "dirt" the tire makers throw into the tread rubber for traction sometimes doesn't help this.
Get the rear toe reduced to minimum IN . Notice a lot of printouts are in minutes not 100ths of a degree now - Recall from geometry class there are 60 min to one degree. ( a Sexagesimal System from the ancient Sumerians five thousand years ago - now Iraq - the Cradle of Civilization of our modern world.
Don't feel too bad - I was just at the VW dealer and the faked my tire wear and pressure numbers on their courtesy safety check list.
They had my tires listed at 9/32 tread depth and they are 6/32 ! One- half of the serviceable tread worn off in 4900 miles 7 ,months!
I had it in for a Alignment in April and they said they couldn't get the left caster in but its is OK.
Time for a sit down with the Owner or Service manager. This is a lease I'm not buying tires for a 20K miles lease!
Again just get the rears toed in minimally (about 0 Deg/10 Minutes total IN) see how that does before you go after camber. Some cheap tires just wear fast. The "dirt" the tire makers throw into the tread rubber for traction sometimes doesn't help this.
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It depends on the car and driving style. Working with a good shop to figure out the cure for your issues will be key. Find a body shop with an experienced tech and good equipment.
My car specifies +0.13 degrees of toe in the rear and -1.6 degrees camber. I run -1.3 camber since I do a lot of highway driving, still within the tolerance of 0.5 degrees. My tires wear evenly with 5k mile rotation.
The Ford Focus is another example of a car running a lot of static negative camber in the rear for safety and stability. A lot of shops know to run this towards the positive end of tolerance for longer tire life.
The OP's car is fully adjustable in the rear with eccentric bushings.
My car specifies +0.13 degrees of toe in the rear and -1.6 degrees camber. I run -1.3 camber since I do a lot of highway driving, still within the tolerance of 0.5 degrees. My tires wear evenly with 5k mile rotation.
The Ford Focus is another example of a car running a lot of static negative camber in the rear for safety and stability. A lot of shops know to run this towards the positive end of tolerance for longer tire life.
The OP's car is fully adjustable in the rear with eccentric bushings.
Inner tire wear is a result of too much toe OUT, not toe in.
When it comes to alignments, there is "in spec", and there is in spec.
Post up the alignment specs. You want to be closer to max positive toe to prevent inner tire wear. Camber does not wear out tires, toe does. I normally run -2.5 degrees camber on my cars and get perfectly even tire wear.
When it comes to alignments, there is "in spec", and there is in spec.
Post up the alignment specs. You want to be closer to max positive toe to prevent inner tire wear. Camber does not wear out tires, toe does. I normally run -2.5 degrees camber on my cars and get perfectly even tire wear.
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Originally Posted by ram_man
Couldn't I adjust the toe a little bit and hopefully help the issue on my own?
Sure. Worst that could happen is... more wear. But that might be hard to tell since it's already worn to begin with.
Take a look at what is out there for DIY alignment. Ultimately you can adjust toe by measuring distance between the two tires with a tape measure and maybe some flat boards strapped to the tires.
I think you'll find that you want a smidge of toe-in on the rear, else the car might wander a bit, especially in crosswinds. I could be wrong though.
Couldn't I adjust the toe a little bit and hopefully help the issue on my own?
Sure. Worst that could happen is... more wear. But that might be hard to tell since it's already worn to begin with.
Take a look at what is out there for DIY alignment. Ultimately you can adjust toe by measuring distance between the two tires with a tape measure and maybe some flat boards strapped to the tires.
I think you'll find that you want a smidge of toe-in on the rear, else the car might wander a bit, especially in crosswinds. I could be wrong though.
Originally Posted by mightymousetech
Inner tire wear is a result of too much toe OUT, not toe in.
Toe in, when combined with negative camber, will definitely wear the inner shoulders. You are dragging the tire across the inner part of the tread.
Toe in, with zero or positive camber, will wear the outer shoulders.
The first generation Acura NSX had issues with rear tire wear, with many owners lucky to get 5000 miles out of the uber expensive, NSX specific rear tires. Fronts would last 3x as long or more. The car was set up with some negative rear camber and a lot of rear toe in, for stability and responsiveness. After a class action lawsuit over tire wear, the alignment specs were changed to reduce rear toe in by half ... and tire wear increased substantially. Now those super expensive rear tires would last up to 10 or 12 000 miles. Nice ...
Inner tire wear is a result of too much toe OUT, not toe in.
Toe in, when combined with negative camber, will definitely wear the inner shoulders. You are dragging the tire across the inner part of the tread.
Toe in, with zero or positive camber, will wear the outer shoulders.
The first generation Acura NSX had issues with rear tire wear, with many owners lucky to get 5000 miles out of the uber expensive, NSX specific rear tires. Fronts would last 3x as long or more. The car was set up with some negative rear camber and a lot of rear toe in, for stability and responsiveness. After a class action lawsuit over tire wear, the alignment specs were changed to reduce rear toe in by half ... and tire wear increased substantially. Now those super expensive rear tires would last up to 10 or 12 000 miles. Nice ...
Originally Posted by ram_man
Alignment specs are as follows
Rear
Left rear
Camber -1.92
Toe 0.15
Right rear
Camber -1.76
Toe 0.12
That is quite a bit of negative camber. Combined with ANY toe in, and your tires will show inner wear. I would look at reducing the rear camber, with zero toe ... however
Do you drive the car aggressively? If you do, remember that the alignment settings are set that way to give the rear more grip than the fronts, so you don't spin. If you tweak the rear settings, you may find the car will be twitchier and more likely to rotate, especially in rain or on snow/ice, if applicable. Some people love that, others, not so much.
Alignment specs are as follows
Rear
Left rear
Camber -1.92
Toe 0.15
Right rear
Camber -1.76
Toe 0.12
That is quite a bit of negative camber. Combined with ANY toe in, and your tires will show inner wear. I would look at reducing the rear camber, with zero toe ... however
Do you drive the car aggressively? If you do, remember that the alignment settings are set that way to give the rear more grip than the fronts, so you don't spin. If you tweak the rear settings, you may find the car will be twitchier and more likely to rotate, especially in rain or on snow/ice, if applicable. Some people love that, others, not so much.
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