Brake Job Upsell

[The Critic]

2012 Honda Odyssey Touring, 95K.

Customer was at the dealer to have some work performed under extended warranty. As part of their inspection the dealer advised the customer that their vehicle was due for front and rear brakes. According to the paperwork, the front brakes were at 2mm and the rear brakes were at 3mm. The dealer recommended replacing the front pads and machining the rotors, and for the rears, recommended a replacing the brake pads only (common for Honda dealers around here, they only recommend pad slapping the rears).

When I inspected the car, I found the front brake pads to have 5mm remaining (see picture). The rear pads had between 4.0mm-4.5mm. During my test drive, even at city speeds, I noticed the steering wheel was shaking violently every time the brakes were applied.

Did this van need a brake job? Yes, the front brakes needed to be done due to the vibration during braking. But the front brakes did require replacement due to wear - there was plenty of material left. And the rear brakes did not need to be done; Honda's wear limit is 1.6mm and I typically recommend service between 2mm-3mm unless another condition warrants attention sooner.

Was the dealer's recommendation for a front brake job, legitimate? I don't know. I think the car definitely needed a front brake job but not for the reasons that was presented. Perhaps the service writer/tech really felt the brake job should be done and unless it was presented as a wear (safety) issue, most people would pass?

Do you guys think the dealer was being somewhat fair or was this simply another case of someone being too hungry?

 

[dlundblad]

How does the service writer get the pad thicknesses?

 

[Imp4]

Originally Posted by dlundblad
How does the service writer get the pad thicknesses?

As part of the standard safety checklist that the tech runs through whenever warranty work is performed.

This point being that the tech could have easily relayed bogus information to the service writer.

 

[Andrew1972]

Dealers really techs tend to err on side of (full) replacement especially if place is not busy at moment.

That being said they guess customers service once per year in modern vehicles and this is it. My personal Indy would say you can wait but then I am back in 2-4 months just for the brake work which I don't love either. I typically add a $15 - $20 Uber ride in to pick up or drop off my Acura MDX.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Dealer being a little hungry there.

 

[Kira]

Just a side note here.

We're all willing to condemn any "up-sell" but you gotta consider two things, maybe more.

1) The up-sell here isn't too egregious given the age and thinness of the pads AND that the OP was in the shop already.

2) Imagine trying to explain to customer after customer the small variances among in-use parts in order to explain / excuse the bit of waste which is going to occur with timely maintenance.

It adds up to many cars being neglected.

 

[Chris142]

The dealer should have told them that the rears are getting thin. Not down to minimum yet. Then asked them if they want them replaced now or would they like to bring it back around X-Mas.

The fronts were obviously shaking so it did need work up there. Really no reason to turn rotors or replace them and put pads with 4mm back on.

So fronts yes. Rears... Now or 6 months from now? That's how i would present it to the customer.

 

[atikovi]

Service writer works on commision. Nuf said.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by madRiver
That being said they guess customers service once per year in modern vehicles and this is it. My personal Indy would say you can wait but then I am back in 2-4 months just for the brake work which I don't love either. I typically add a $15 - $20 Uber ride in to pick up or drop off my Acura MDX.

I wonder if that is not part of it. Time is money, and if it saves me from taking another day off from work to go into the shop, then it's probably worth doing now rather than later. [These days I do my own brake pads and would just run those further down, but, my Saturday's tend to be "free" for me.]

 

[Tman220]

A friend of mine recently quit a Honda tech position and one of the reasons was other techs taking advantage of customers by recommending work that was not needed. Techs LOVE brake jobs, they are easy, they are fast, and therefore pad the tech's paychecks nicely. Wherever there is incentive for someone to make easy money... customers beware.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by Tman220
A friend of mine recently quit a Honda tech position and one of the reasons was other techs taking advantage of customers by recommending work that was not needed. Techs LOVE brake jobs, they are easy, they are fast, and therefore pad the tech's paychecks nicely. Wherever there is incentive for someone to make easy money... customers beware.

When our daughter was small, my wife took her car to some weird shop that was attached to a car wash for a safety inspection and was told that she needed front and rear brakes completely replaced...pads, calipers, rotors, everything. She questioned this diagnosis and told them she was going to get another opinion and whomever she was dealing with told her that she would be lucky to not get in a crash and kill herself and our daughter on the way to another shop.
!!!!!!!!
She went to her dealer and they told her she needed front pads, nothing else.

Gotta love using the prospect of killing a child to try to force an upsell...

 

[Mr Nice]

Flat Rate forces mechanics and service writers to be scum. They tag team for the $$$.

My Honda needed $1500 worth of stuff done when I took it in for airbag recall.

 

[doitmyself]

Lying about the pad thickness was wrong. The recommendations were not too far out of line, but could have been presented more truthfully and offering options to the customer. Just like health care, car owners should practice self advocacy by educating themselves and asking questions. Get a second opinion if your expertise is lacking. Responsibility is on both sides of the situation. If you don't do this, you are open to getting taken advantage of.

 

[Spector]

chattering when brakes applied is usually a sign of a warped rotor, not necessarily the pads. Machining a warped rotor may or may not solve the chattering issue.

 

[Rand]

its the normal dealer pad the pockets upsell.. they sometimes even have a modified caliper or tool to "show you" they need replacement.

The selling dealer tried this on my stepmom and said they couldnt let her leave it was an immediate safety issue.

Which didnt work since my Dad showed up with tools and took measurements that were over twice what they told her it was......

 

[Variant_S]

When I took the Subaru to the dealer for the airbag recall, they asked if I wanted the courtesy inspection. I declined.

The independent mechanic that I use is as Chris142 suggests: do this now, do these other things later.

 

[Leo99]

It's not just car repair. My daughter went to a dentist in Philly who told her she needed some super cleaning and had a cavity that needed filling. She's not insured and the price was expensive. Told her to visit my dentist out in the suburbs. He examined her and did xrays and said he didn't see anything wrong. Didn't even charge her.

It's time for me to pull my wheels and inspect the brakes on my Camry. A little chattering there.

 

[Hall]

At least (3) others held off on the typical dealer bashing that is typical here and pointed out that while the rear pads weren't in immediate need of replacement now, they will be in the (near) future. I was thinking the same thing as those (3) people and for nothing more than convenience to the customer, why not replace them now at the same time as the front brake job ? Remember, a typical customer might think, "ughhhh, but I just had the brakes replaced 4 months ago and they need replaced again ?". Brakes are brakes to them, not "front brakes" or "rear brakes".

 

[UncleDave]

Where is the rivet?

One typically can't simply measure to the bottom of the pad -

Typically there will be at least 2 mounting holes the there will be a rivet sticking up a few MM.

If you measure the distance to the top of the rivet how close was the dealer then?

UD

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted by madRiver
Dealers really techs tend to err on side of (full) replacement especially if place is not busy at moment.

That being said they guess customers service once per year in modern vehicles and this is it. My personal Indy would say you can wait but then I am back in 2-4 months just for the brake work which I don't love either. I typically add a $15 - $20 Uber ride in to pick up or drop off my Acura MDX.

Rear pads at 4mm can easily last another 10-15K, which is a year for most people.