Mobil 1 EP vs AFE

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Getting ready to change my gf's Avalon 3.5 oil and filter. It's a real pain because the car is so low. Going with Fram Ultra and Mobil 1. Any differences between these 2 oils that I should consider? I don't want to do it again for a long time. She does about 7-8k a year and has a heavy foot. BTW 0-20.
 
Originally Posted by loneryder
Getting ready to change my gf's Avalon 3.5 oil and filter. It's a real pain because the car is so low. Going with Fram Ultra and Mobil 1. Any differences between these 2 oils that I should consider? I don't want to do it again for a long time. She does about 7-8k a year and has a heavy foot. BTW 0-20.

Well if time is your sole criteria then both are guaranteed by ExxonMobil for 12 months. The EP is guaranteed for 15,000 miles as opposed to 10,000 miles for the AFE during the same 12 month limit. Since you say that she goes 7-8K a year then neither one has an advantage in that regard.
 
EP has modestly more ZDDP than AFE and more PAO and less Group III. I suspect EP has more antioxidants which includes but is not limited to ZDDP. So I think EP would last longer before starting to oxidize, thicken, and leave deposits. I would go with EP because it doesn't cost all that much more.
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
For the difference in cost I'd use EP.


+++
I switched from EP to AFE since I'm changing 2X per year …
For a year long run … I'd do the EP …
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
For the difference in cost I'd use EP.

Why?
 
Originally Posted by JAG
EP has modestly more ZDDP than AFE and more PAO and less Group III. I suspect EP has more antioxidants which includes but is not limited to ZDDP. So I think EP would last longer before starting to oxidize, thicken, and leave deposits. I would go with EP because it doesn't cost all that much more.

Thanks. That's what I was wondering about, the base oils. I knew both oils were very good. I may let her go 2yrs on this OC.
 
Originally Posted by CT8
Oil is oil ,,, either one will serve well.

Why do you think multiple oil specifications exist? If oil is oil, only one specification would be needed. You aren't doing the forum any good by making statements like that.
 
Originally Posted by loneryder
I may let her go 2yrs on this OC.


It's true that Toyota 3.5 V6's are very, very good engines. However, like all modern engines, they use low tension piston rings, a timing chain and variable valve timing.

The oil change is the only way to remove combustion byproducts such as soot, and the evaporates from the fuel that bypasses the rings. Low tension rings do, at times, tend to let more "sneak" by. Furthermore, the rings are more likely to stick in the pistons when carbon builds up.

The right solution is to use a quality oil and change it regularly. I don't suggest 15,000 mile oil changes on modern engines. As the engines are just too expensive to risk. Examples of early failures abound, including Toyota engines. Good Maintenance is the solution to avoiding known issues.

Remember that soot and particulates are hard on timing chains, especially with very thin oils.
 
Originally Posted by loneryder
Getting ready to change my gf's Avalon 3.5 oil and filter. It's a real pain because the car is so low. Going with Fram Ultra and Mobil 1. Any differences between these 2 oils that I should consider? I don't want to do it again for a long time. She does about 7-8k a year and has a heavy foot. BTW 0-20.



My wife's 2009 Lexus ES350 is a pain too and requires using a floor jack on front passenger side to access filter and the highly convenient Fumoto drain valve. I don't like being underneath the vehicle longer than necessary.


By the way, my wife only does 6k a year which means an OC with PUP every year and an FU evert other year. So far the UOA looks good.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by loneryder
Originally Posted by JAG
EP has modestly more ZDDP than AFE and more PAO and less Group III. I suspect EP has more antioxidants which includes but is not limited to ZDDP. So I think EP would last longer before starting to oxidize, thicken, and leave deposits. I would go with EP because it doesn't cost all that much more.

Thanks. That's what I was wondering about, the base oils. I knew both oils were very good. I may let her go 2yrs on this OC.


Friends don't let friends go 2yrs between changes! That seems like an awfully long time for the contaminants population to build up and the TBN to drop precipitously.

At 7~8k annually, I'd use ST, ProDS or QSUD or Amazon Basics 0w20 (something with a relatively low noack and high TBN) coupled with a Fram XG and change it once a year. But at the end of the day it's your $$$, so you do you and be happy with it.

And oh yeah, I'd buy a set of ramps or at least a cheap bottle jack (if you can squeeze one under there) to provide a little more wiggle room. Or do what I did when I was a kid, pull up onto the curb next to your driveway. ...‚
 
Last edited:
Getting extra advice today … here is my last:
Don't go under a car only supported by a jack … just don't
 
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by loneryder
I may let her go 2yrs on this OC.


It's true that Toyota 3.5 V6's are very, very good engines. However, like all modern engines, they use low tension piston rings, a timing chain and variable valve timing.

The oil change is the only way to remove combustion byproducts such as soot, and the evaporates from the fuel that bypasses the rings. Low tension rings do, at times, tend to let more "sneak" by. Furthermore, the rings are more likely to stick in the pistons when carbon builds up.

The right solution is to use a quality oil and change it regularly. I don't suggest 15,000 mile oil changes on modern engines. As the engines are just too expensive to risk. Examples of early failures abound, including Toyota engines. Good Maintenance is the solution to avoiding known issues.

Remember that soot and particulates are hard on timing chains, especially with very thin oils.

I agree on the 15k oci's so maybe I'll change it every year and let the filter go 2 oci's. The filter box says it is good to 20k but I find that hard to believe with that tiny filter. I just saw a FU filter off a 3.5 lexus @9k miles and it looks fine. It is on BITOG.
 
Originally Posted by Old Mustang Guy
Do you use ramps? I use them on my Avalon. What year model?

2015 40k on it. With the ramps I have, the plastic fascia hits before the wheels. I vacuum extract the oil just need to get to the filter.
 
Originally Posted by 4WD
Getting extra advice today … here is my last:
Don't go under a car only supported by a jack … just don't

No Sir. Not this old man.
 
Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by demarpaint
For the difference in cost I'd use EP.

Why?

It's a better oil in my opinion, and my van would benefit from the extra ZDDP. I'd also have no concerns running it 2+ years, which is often the case with my van.
 
Originally Posted by 4WD
Getting extra advice today … here is my last:
Don't go under a car only supported by a jack … just don't

I assumed he has a scissor jack also. If he can finagle a bottle jack up front, he's got the scissor jack as back up. But to your point, it's solid advice.

But like I said, pull it up onto the curb using a couple 2x4's to clear a low front end. Slide out the 2x4's and get to work...put the 2x4's back down and pull the car off the curb. Who doesn't have 2x4's laying around??? Or you can pull one side up onto the curb coming off the driveway. This of course assumes you have a curb to work with.
 
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