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High Ester based oils #51664 10/30/03 03:06 PM
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buster Offline OP
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Would it be accurate to say that RL, S2k, GC and D1 are the oils that contain a higher percentage of esters to PAO then other synthetic oils? [Smile]

Re: High Ester based oils #51665 10/30/03 05:15 PM
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TooSlick Offline
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Buster,

Price per quart is the best indicator of how much ester their potentially is. Stuff that sells for $3.00-$5.00/quart is largely PAO or Group III based. If you look at ester based two stroke oils, for example, they are more like $7.00-$9.00/quart.

Amsoil is primarily using very high quality PAO's for their basestocks - I have no idea about other companies ....The term "more ester" could mean 20% rather than 10%.

Ted

Re: High Ester based oils #51666 10/30/03 07:42 PM
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cvl Offline
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Motul makes some 100% ester basestock oils.

Re: High Ester based oils #51667 10/31/03 08:14 AM
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Terry Offline
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Buster,


Molakule has listed base oil levels by brand on this site in the past, please search it and post here if you would.

VP racing fuels motor oils are nearly 100 % Ester bases. Coconut oil is a part of the mix.

Castrol makes a RS 10w-50 that has a large ester component but is limited to certain markets.

Aside from Redline the others above contain much less than 40% ester bases.

The GC 0w-30 is a unknown unless someone wants to fork over about $400 for a GC burn to determine the oils used.

TD

Re: High Ester based oils #51668 10/30/03 10:48 PM
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cvl Offline
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Again, Motul has a few 100% ester oils.

Re: High Ester based oils #51669 10/30/03 10:54 PM
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Jason8691 Offline
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Neo claims their oil is 100% diester based. I have a quart and am sending of a sample to Blackstone for a VOA this weekend.

Re: High Ester based oils #51670 10/30/03 11:08 PM
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MolaKule Offline
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Laboratory grade (experimental grade) synthetic esters are running at $0.035/mL or $1.05/ounce.

In some cases I make my own esters with raw materials because it's cheaper and because purchased finished products are way too expensive for low volume production.


I think GC has some some esters, but no where near the level of Redline nor are they the same type. I think GC is using a relatively old formula that Pennzoil used some time ago:
1. Two synthetsized hydrocarbon oils - PAO's and alkylated naphthalenes/benzenes
2. Some 2-ethylhexyl adipate (di-ester)
3. Improved additive package

Pennzoils old synthetic formula was superb.

[ October 31, 2003, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

Re: High Ester based oils #51671 10/31/03 12:21 AM
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G-MAN Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by MolaKule:
I think GC has some some esters, but no where near the level of Redline nor are they the same type. I think GC is using a relatively old formula that Pennzoil used some time ago:
1. Two synthetsized hydrocarbon oils - PAO's and alkylated naphthalenes/benzenes
2. Some 2-ethylhexyl adipate (di-ester)
3. Improved additive package

Pennzoils old synthetic formula was superb.

MK, what happened to your posted opinion that the German Syntec was mostly esters based on its specs and pour point? [Confused]

Re: High Ester based oils #51672 10/31/03 12:24 AM
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MolaKule Offline
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As I recall, (corect me if I am wrong) I said it did contain some esters, but they had to be diesters to get that low a PP.

Re: High Ester based oils #51673 10/31/03 01:14 AM
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Ferrari Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by cvl:
Motul makes some 100% ester basestock oils.

Yes it does, but Motul is so crappy when it comes to giving out oil specs and answering customers' questions that these oils are largely ignored in NA.

Re: High Ester based oils #51674 10/31/03 01:24 AM
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unDummy Offline
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Like Castrol isn't crappy about oil specs [I dont know]

The only oil specs needed are UOAs vs the VOAs.

Why people constantly email/annoy/harass oil companies for info that is internal/proprietary/secret is beyond me.

Availability is the only reason why I use certain oils. Get some of these "boutique" oils in local stores and I'll buy.

Re: High Ester based oils #51675 10/31/03 03:17 AM
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Primus Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by MolaKule:
In some cases I make my own esters with raw materials because it's cheaper and because purchased finished products are way too expensive for low volume production.

Need partners to create the company and start commercial production ? I'm ready. Anybody else ?
The offer is valid until Monday, then all others just shareholders !

quote:
I think GC has some some esters, but no where near the level of Redline nor are they the same type. I think GC is using a relatively old formula that Pennzoil used some time ago:
1. Two synthetsized hydrocarbon oils - PAO's and alkylated naphthalenes/benzenes
2. Some 2-ethylhexyl adipate (di-ester)
3. Improved additive package

For such thoughts about M1 SS and GC some guys almost excommunicated me from our BITOG church !

Hope you have some info on Motul 300V and would help with the following questions:

1). What can be the reason of quite low Flash Point (COC) and Shear Stability Index of 300V ? The use of some "cheap" esters ? Interesting that according to CEC L-14-A-93 test 300V oils are less shear stable then 8100 or 6100, but the real engine tests show completely different picture.

2). Why do esters oils (namely Motul) usually exibit 1.5 times higher corrosivity then PAO and 2.0 times higher then mineral oils ?

................... 300V 15W-50 ... 10W-40 ... 8100 0W-40 ... 6100 5W-40
Shear stability ......... 4,3 % ..... 8,5 % ....... 1,5 % ........... 1,8 %
HT/HS .................... 5,4 ........ 3,93 ......... 3,66 ............. 3,57
NOACK .................... 8,3 ........ 6,0 ........... 9,8 .............. 11,1
Flash point .............. 218 ........ 236 .......... 226 .............. 228

0W-40 : Esters + some amount of PAO.
5W-40 : PAO + some amount of gr.III & Esters

It's also difficult to understand what Motul has changed in formulations and why, but until 2000-2002 Flash Points and NOACK were different:

15W-50 232 and 4,0 %
10W-40 218 and 6,5 %

The density of oils have been changed too.

TYI.

Re: High Ester based oils #51676 10/31/03 05:48 AM
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tenderloin Offline
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Torcos racing line (SR-5 $10 per qt.) and new SL rated line (SR-1 $5 per qt.)are Group lV and V. Per Torco they do not consider Group lll as true synthetics

[ October 31, 2003, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: tenderloin ]

Re: High Ester based oils #51677 11/01/03 12:00 PM
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sprintman Offline
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Terry will you have more info on the VP oils soon? I will be testing their new RS-7 two stroke oil in a kart engine in about a month when VP Oz have it. VP say it's the best two stroke available period and I see US Rotax series already picked it up as the oil of choice.

Re: High Ester based oils #51678 11/02/03 03:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Terry:
Buster,


Molakule has listed base oil levels by brand on this site in the past, please search it and post here if you would.

VP racing fuels motor oils are nearly 100 % Ester bases. Coconut oil is a part of the mix.

Castrol makes a RS 10w-50 that has a large ester component but is limited to certain markets.

Aside from Redline the others above contain much less than 40% ester bases.

The GC 0w-30 is a unknown unless someone wants to fork over about $400 for a GC burn to determine the oils used.

TD

I'd be willing to send a small amount of money along with other members to do testing like this.
Anyone wanna jump in?
Rick

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