I'm mulling over buying jump pack vs, battery charger. if i buy the jump pack, would it give me only one jump start before I'd have to plug it in for several hours, or could i at least get a second jump before driving home & plugging it back in? I'm just wondering how much time id have before before having to get a new battery, vs. going to get a new battery at my convenience?
how many times can jump pack start car w/o being plugged in
- Thread starter paulri
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I have a palm size Halo, jumped 3 cars, after 6 months it was down maybe -25%. I check out every six months and top it off.
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I have this one.
![[Linked Image]](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81cgCdaIuFL._SL1500_.jpg "[Linked Image]")
I can inflate half a dozen flat tires with a heavy duty 12V inflator and then start 3 or 4 cars with no batteries in them. It'll probably start a dozen more. You can always keep it connected via the cig lighter socket for the next jump.
I can inflate half a dozen flat tires with a heavy duty 12V inflator and then start 3 or 4 cars with no batteries in them. It'll probably start a dozen more. You can always keep it connected via the cig lighter socket for the next jump.
Originally Posted by Rand
depends but usually quite a few off 1 charge.
IMO you need both of those items not one or the other..
thats like asking do I need a spoon or fork with dinner... different functions.
+1 One is not a replacement for another, the jump pack should be seen as basically an emergency item (they do work great when you need them).
depends but usually quite a few off 1 charge.
IMO you need both of those items not one or the other..
thats like asking do I need a spoon or fork with dinner... different functions.
+1 One is not a replacement for another, the jump pack should be seen as basically an emergency item (they do work great when you need them).
Originally Posted by Rand
IMO you need both of those items not one or the other..
thats like asking do I need a spoon or fork with dinner... different functions.
Ever heard of a spork?
IMO you need both of those items not one or the other..
thats like asking do I need a spoon or fork with dinner... different functions.
Ever heard of a spork?
I've been using a lithium jump pack to start a truck to drive to work and run errands for the past week and a half. It's started my truck like five times and is still 5/5 battery life since last charge. I paid full price for mine and the next week it was 33% off during prime day!
https://www.amazon.ca/Upgraded-Starter-GOOLOO-18000mAh-Portable/dp/B06X9R8QSY
https://www.amazon.ca/Upgraded-Starter-GOOLOO-18000mAh-Portable/dp/B06X9R8QSY
All lead acid batteries always want to be fully charged. If they sit in a state of partial discharge they will lose capacity at a much higher rate than if they were fully charged. How much below 100% charged and how long they sit there, are the factors, the longer and the lower they are, the faster they lose capacity, and it is not just a matter of recharging them.
The chargers which come with the lead acid jumper packs are not very good at their job. and are worse at their job the lower the state of charge the battery is and the older it is.
AGMs when deeply discharged should be allowed to feed upon a charging source capable of delivering 1/3 their capacity until mid 14 volts is achicved at the battery terminals.
Most lead acid jumper packs employ a 12 or 18Ah battery, so 4 to 6 amps should be made available to them when drawn to the 50% range. They should be fed that much amperage until their voltage rises to 14.5 to 14.9 volts.
They should then be held at 14.5 to 14.9 volts until teh current tapers to very low numbers, around 0.1 to 0.2 amps. At this point they can be considered truly fully charged.
The chargers which come with the jumper packs are usually single voltage (~13.8v)and capable of only 1.5 amps maximum. When new and plugged in for long enough the battery will reach full charge, but when older these lower voltages stand no chance of truly fully charging the battery and as such it loses capacity faster than it should.
The 'trickle charge it' mentality is not applicable to AGMs, they need higher currents to force migration of the electrolyte through the glass matting and this is more important the deeper they are discharged.
As for how much juice a jumper pack will lose each time it jumpstarts a vehicle this is highly dependent on many factors, such as:
How low is the regular engine starting battery?
how long is jumper battery connected to the engine battery before starting? It is actually feeding the engine battery the whole time until the starter is turned?
How long does the starter crank for before engine catches?
How much amperage does the starter draw?
How long is the jumper battery connected after the engine starts?
How much extra capacity does the alternator have to bring the engine battery upto 14+ volts in order to be able to replace a small portion of what was used from the jumper battery to start?
These are big variables, unknowns, so any number anyone puts out is a complete guess, unless they have actual data.
I do have some data on my own vehicle.
I started my 5.2 liter v8 engine which had not been started for 2 weeks in 80f ambient temperatures, on a single 18Ah AGM battery. the regular starting battery was disconnected.
It was able to start the engine and my measuring tools measured 7.6 volts minimum and ~1800 watts of draw.
volts times amps = watts, so the amperage therefore peaked at ~237 amps, and it requires about 3 seconds to start.
While one might think simple math one could figure out how much of that 18ah capacity was used up, there is this thing called the peukert effect, which basically says the larger the load, the less capacity the battery has.
A 100 amp hour new and fully charged battery can provide 5 amps for 20 hours before voltage falls to 10.5v which is considered fully discharged.
This does not mean a 100 amp hour battery could provide 100 amps for 1 hour before voltage falls to 10.5v. It could likely provide 100 amps for about 35 minutes. Voltage would fall below 10.5 during the load but then rebound to the 10.5v range some time after such a huge load was removed. All batteries have different peukert numbers and these change for the worse as the battery ages.
So a 237 amp load on an 18 AH battery is rather obscene. I'd not do it often. Mine was a test, just to see if it alone could start the cold engine in warm ambients. it could, but not with authority. While my meter does indicate Watt hours and amp hours used, it does not account for the peukert effect and I did not bother recording at the AH or WH consumption figures it recorded. I also idled the engine for a while, and the alternator was then recharging it at a high rate, so I do not know how much below its regular 13.15 full chrge resting voltage it would have rebounded to hadI shut off the engine right after starting.
When I hook this 18AH battery in parallel to assist starting my fully charged regular engine starting battery over a few feet of 8awg cable, it provides about 50 amps assist, and about 75amps when engine battery is about 80% charged. The lower the state of charge of the engine battery the more amperage assist this 'jumper' battery provides. My starter is rated at 1.4KW output, or 1400 watts, but draws close to 1800 watts from the battery to start the cold engine.
This 18AH battery in question is the UB12180. These sell for 35 to 50$ online. I suspect if it were rated in CCA it would be about 170CCA. It does say no more than 5.4 amps of charging current on its casing.
I have discharged it to 11.65 volts and applied a 40 amp charging source to it set for 14.7 volts. 36 amps instantly brought voltage to 14.7v, but quickly settled to 32 amps. 5 minutes later it was still accepting 25 amps and its casing had not yet begun to heat up. Since I could not be there to monitor temperature I lowered the pressure of my adjustable voltage power supply until the battery was accepting less than 10 amps, still nearly double the 'maximum' charge rate. I then raised voltage in a few passes back upto 14.7v and let it go for a few hours until amps tapered to ~0.18, where they stopped tapering. I was hoping they would taper to 0.09. which would be 0.5% of the 18Ah capacity and indicate a true full charge. it took a few charge/discharge cycles before amperage would taper this low at high voltages.
This is the ONLY way to absolutely determine if an AGm is fully charged. It has to be held in teh mid 14 volt range, and has to be held there until amps taper to either 0.5% of their capacty( 20 hr rate) or until amps begine rising again.
The chargers which come with jumper packs fall well short of this.
Most smart chargers fall well short of this.
Any charging is better than no charging, but a depleted lead acid battery that has a charging source immediately applied then properly returned to 100% state of charge, can live an exceptional lifespan, anythng less than this is a compromise, to some degree, the variable being how much less than ideal the recharge regimen is and how long the battery had stayed less than fully charged.
Bringing a battery to under 10.5 volts is very hard on the battery.
The lower the state of charge is, the more important the proper recharge becomes, and the harder it is to achieve via regular charging sources.
One thing to note of these lead acid jumper pack AGM batteries, is they do not have the super low self discharge numbers of higher quality AGM batteries. If put away fully charged, they will lose 2 to 8% of that charge every 30 days. The hotter the average ambient temperature, the faster they self discharge.
Remember The lead acid battery always wants to be truly 100% charged, for best logevity and performance during that lifespan.
I bring mine back up to 14.7v for a period of time every 7 days or so, until amps taper to a low level again. The amount of time it takes for amperage to taper to this low level at 14.7v is a sign of how much self discharge has occurred, and i am never impressed by how little it took, usually the opposite.
The chargers which come with the lead acid jumper packs are not very good at their job. and are worse at their job the lower the state of charge the battery is and the older it is.
AGMs when deeply discharged should be allowed to feed upon a charging source capable of delivering 1/3 their capacity until mid 14 volts is achicved at the battery terminals.
Most lead acid jumper packs employ a 12 or 18Ah battery, so 4 to 6 amps should be made available to them when drawn to the 50% range. They should be fed that much amperage until their voltage rises to 14.5 to 14.9 volts.
They should then be held at 14.5 to 14.9 volts until teh current tapers to very low numbers, around 0.1 to 0.2 amps. At this point they can be considered truly fully charged.
The chargers which come with the jumper packs are usually single voltage (~13.8v)and capable of only 1.5 amps maximum. When new and plugged in for long enough the battery will reach full charge, but when older these lower voltages stand no chance of truly fully charging the battery and as such it loses capacity faster than it should.
The 'trickle charge it' mentality is not applicable to AGMs, they need higher currents to force migration of the electrolyte through the glass matting and this is more important the deeper they are discharged.
As for how much juice a jumper pack will lose each time it jumpstarts a vehicle this is highly dependent on many factors, such as:
How low is the regular engine starting battery?
how long is jumper battery connected to the engine battery before starting? It is actually feeding the engine battery the whole time until the starter is turned?
How long does the starter crank for before engine catches?
How much amperage does the starter draw?
How long is the jumper battery connected after the engine starts?
How much extra capacity does the alternator have to bring the engine battery upto 14+ volts in order to be able to replace a small portion of what was used from the jumper battery to start?
These are big variables, unknowns, so any number anyone puts out is a complete guess, unless they have actual data.
I do have some data on my own vehicle.
I started my 5.2 liter v8 engine which had not been started for 2 weeks in 80f ambient temperatures, on a single 18Ah AGM battery. the regular starting battery was disconnected.
It was able to start the engine and my measuring tools measured 7.6 volts minimum and ~1800 watts of draw.
volts times amps = watts, so the amperage therefore peaked at ~237 amps, and it requires about 3 seconds to start.
While one might think simple math one could figure out how much of that 18ah capacity was used up, there is this thing called the peukert effect, which basically says the larger the load, the less capacity the battery has.
A 100 amp hour new and fully charged battery can provide 5 amps for 20 hours before voltage falls to 10.5v which is considered fully discharged.
This does not mean a 100 amp hour battery could provide 100 amps for 1 hour before voltage falls to 10.5v. It could likely provide 100 amps for about 35 minutes. Voltage would fall below 10.5 during the load but then rebound to the 10.5v range some time after such a huge load was removed. All batteries have different peukert numbers and these change for the worse as the battery ages.
So a 237 amp load on an 18 AH battery is rather obscene. I'd not do it often. Mine was a test, just to see if it alone could start the cold engine in warm ambients. it could, but not with authority. While my meter does indicate Watt hours and amp hours used, it does not account for the peukert effect and I did not bother recording at the AH or WH consumption figures it recorded. I also idled the engine for a while, and the alternator was then recharging it at a high rate, so I do not know how much below its regular 13.15 full chrge resting voltage it would have rebounded to hadI shut off the engine right after starting.
When I hook this 18AH battery in parallel to assist starting my fully charged regular engine starting battery over a few feet of 8awg cable, it provides about 50 amps assist, and about 75amps when engine battery is about 80% charged. The lower the state of charge of the engine battery the more amperage assist this 'jumper' battery provides. My starter is rated at 1.4KW output, or 1400 watts, but draws close to 1800 watts from the battery to start the cold engine.
This 18AH battery in question is the UB12180. These sell for 35 to 50$ online. I suspect if it were rated in CCA it would be about 170CCA. It does say no more than 5.4 amps of charging current on its casing.
I have discharged it to 11.65 volts and applied a 40 amp charging source to it set for 14.7 volts. 36 amps instantly brought voltage to 14.7v, but quickly settled to 32 amps. 5 minutes later it was still accepting 25 amps and its casing had not yet begun to heat up. Since I could not be there to monitor temperature I lowered the pressure of my adjustable voltage power supply until the battery was accepting less than 10 amps, still nearly double the 'maximum' charge rate. I then raised voltage in a few passes back upto 14.7v and let it go for a few hours until amps tapered to ~0.18, where they stopped tapering. I was hoping they would taper to 0.09. which would be 0.5% of the 18Ah capacity and indicate a true full charge. it took a few charge/discharge cycles before amperage would taper this low at high voltages.
This is the ONLY way to absolutely determine if an AGm is fully charged. It has to be held in teh mid 14 volt range, and has to be held there until amps taper to either 0.5% of their capacty( 20 hr rate) or until amps begine rising again.
The chargers which come with jumper packs fall well short of this.
Most smart chargers fall well short of this.
Any charging is better than no charging, but a depleted lead acid battery that has a charging source immediately applied then properly returned to 100% state of charge, can live an exceptional lifespan, anythng less than this is a compromise, to some degree, the variable being how much less than ideal the recharge regimen is and how long the battery had stayed less than fully charged.
Bringing a battery to under 10.5 volts is very hard on the battery.
The lower the state of charge is, the more important the proper recharge becomes, and the harder it is to achieve via regular charging sources.
One thing to note of these lead acid jumper pack AGM batteries, is they do not have the super low self discharge numbers of higher quality AGM batteries. If put away fully charged, they will lose 2 to 8% of that charge every 30 days. The hotter the average ambient temperature, the faster they self discharge.
Remember The lead acid battery always wants to be truly 100% charged, for best logevity and performance during that lifespan.
I bring mine back up to 14.7v for a period of time every 7 days or so, until amps taper to a low level again. The amount of time it takes for amperage to taper to this low level at 14.7v is a sign of how much self discharge has occurred, and i am never impressed by how little it took, usually the opposite.
I have this one. I use it to inflate tires and I have jump-started engines without issues. I did not try out how many times I could jump-start an engine. I always recharge the device after using it. I also have a compact Anker that weighs a bit over a pound and fits in the glove box. I use it mostly to power my laptop when it runs down but it comes with jumper cables and I tried it out successfully.
https://www.anker.com/ca/products/variant/compact-car-jump-starter-and-portable-charger/A1501071
https://www.anker.com/ca/products/variant/compact-car-jump-starter-and-portable-charger/A1501071
The OP, if they already have jumper cables, and a charger at home, could save some money buying just the lead acid jumper pack battery itself, rather than the whole lead acid jumper pack.
This is a 22Ah AGM (UB12220), but the same physical size of the 18AH agm (UB12180) that I have and which can start my 5.2 liter v8 engine all by itself. It weighs 2 Lbs more though. With lead acid batteries, heavier is better.
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Po...d=1563772397&s=automotive&sr=1-6
I chose that specific link as it claims to be a replacement for a diehard jumper starter pack.
The 18 AH battery I bought is branded Mightymax and as a 600 watt battery, marketed for the stereo crowd, but Mightymax responded to just use the charging parameters of the Ub12180. I've no proof it is any different from the UB12180 branded as such.
I do wish I spent a bit more for this battery instead:
https://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Max-B...d=1563772904&s=automotive&sr=1-9
Some other batteries in the same size and general packaging, claim to be designed for high rate, that they have higher CCA. Until i actually have one to test and compared I will continue to have my doubts about many which appear the same.
The one below weighs more than others, or claims to anyway.
https://www.amazon.com/Yuasa-NPX-80...;qid=1563773255&s=gateway&sr=8-8
My first jumper pack nearly 20 years ago, was a Schumacher with a 12Ah AGM internal battery. When I removed the battery in '08, it actually said UB12120 on it, no high rate claims or anything. It did however have fatter stronger terminals than the other Ub12120 battereis I see online for as little as 25$.
It was good for several jump start assists on a overdischarged engine starting battery when newer, before requiring a recharge, and I used the internal single voltage charger back then as I did not know any better. i still have that wall wart somewhere. It is rated at 0.5 amps and would never go above 13.8v when attached to a 'fully charged' battery.
These lead acid jumper packs can safely be left attached to the main engine starting battery after jumping, to partially recharge it. Most Li-ion jumper packs to say to disconnect it withing a short period of time.
Many jumper packs with a 12v ciggy plug can be charged through that ciggy plug while driving, but it is highly unlikely that it will ever charge fully and certainly not quickly through such a limited, and generally poor connector and its wiring. The product below is an example, not a recommendation.
https://www.amazon.com/MOTOPOWER-MP...amp;s=gateway&sr=8-9-spons&psc=1
There are much better options for charging such a battery when driving, and this would basically be 10-2 low voltage landscape wiring, fused at 30 amps at the main engine battery, and fused again at the other end near the jumper battery. The battery would accept as much amperage as it wants at the voltage reaching its battery terminals. The voltage at the engine battery is what the vehicles voltage regulator commands and varies between 13.6 and 15 volts, depending on vehicl,e and some vehicles will range outside of this too, even when operating as intended. The 30 amps fuses could blow if the 10 awg wiring is short, when starting the engine.
The jumper battery should not be left connected to engine battery when the engie is not running.
Generally these jumper pack sized AGM batteries have a full charge resting voltage of ~13.15 volts, whereas flooded starting batteries are 12.8ish volts. The higher voltage jumper battery will feed the lower voltage battery until they both read the same, and it will degrade faster if left in parallel for a significant period of time.
As always it is important from a performance and longevity standpoint to return a discharged lead acid battery to full charge quickly after any amount of discharge. NO lead acid battery is immune to sitting partially discharged. The lower it is discharged and the longer it stays there the faster it will lose capacity and performance. It is like a shrinking gas tank. you can still fill it up, it just cannot store as much fuel.
This is a 22Ah AGM (UB12220), but the same physical size of the 18AH agm (UB12180) that I have and which can start my 5.2 liter v8 engine all by itself. It weighs 2 Lbs more though. With lead acid batteries, heavier is better.
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Po...d=1563772397&s=automotive&sr=1-6
I chose that specific link as it claims to be a replacement for a diehard jumper starter pack.
The 18 AH battery I bought is branded Mightymax and as a 600 watt battery, marketed for the stereo crowd, but Mightymax responded to just use the charging parameters of the Ub12180. I've no proof it is any different from the UB12180 branded as such.
I do wish I spent a bit more for this battery instead:
https://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Max-B...d=1563772904&s=automotive&sr=1-9
Some other batteries in the same size and general packaging, claim to be designed for high rate, that they have higher CCA. Until i actually have one to test and compared I will continue to have my doubts about many which appear the same.
The one below weighs more than others, or claims to anyway.
https://www.amazon.com/Yuasa-NPX-80...;qid=1563773255&s=gateway&sr=8-8
My first jumper pack nearly 20 years ago, was a Schumacher with a 12Ah AGM internal battery. When I removed the battery in '08, it actually said UB12120 on it, no high rate claims or anything. It did however have fatter stronger terminals than the other Ub12120 battereis I see online for as little as 25$.
It was good for several jump start assists on a overdischarged engine starting battery when newer, before requiring a recharge, and I used the internal single voltage charger back then as I did not know any better. i still have that wall wart somewhere. It is rated at 0.5 amps and would never go above 13.8v when attached to a 'fully charged' battery.
These lead acid jumper packs can safely be left attached to the main engine starting battery after jumping, to partially recharge it. Most Li-ion jumper packs to say to disconnect it withing a short period of time.
Many jumper packs with a 12v ciggy plug can be charged through that ciggy plug while driving, but it is highly unlikely that it will ever charge fully and certainly not quickly through such a limited, and generally poor connector and its wiring. The product below is an example, not a recommendation.
https://www.amazon.com/MOTOPOWER-MP...amp;s=gateway&sr=8-9-spons&psc=1
There are much better options for charging such a battery when driving, and this would basically be 10-2 low voltage landscape wiring, fused at 30 amps at the main engine battery, and fused again at the other end near the jumper battery. The battery would accept as much amperage as it wants at the voltage reaching its battery terminals. The voltage at the engine battery is what the vehicles voltage regulator commands and varies between 13.6 and 15 volts, depending on vehicl,e and some vehicles will range outside of this too, even when operating as intended. The 30 amps fuses could blow if the 10 awg wiring is short, when starting the engine.
The jumper battery should not be left connected to engine battery when the engie is not running.
Generally these jumper pack sized AGM batteries have a full charge resting voltage of ~13.15 volts, whereas flooded starting batteries are 12.8ish volts. The higher voltage jumper battery will feed the lower voltage battery until they both read the same, and it will degrade faster if left in parallel for a significant period of time.
As always it is important from a performance and longevity standpoint to return a discharged lead acid battery to full charge quickly after any amount of discharge. NO lead acid battery is immune to sitting partially discharged. The lower it is discharged and the longer it stays there the faster it will lose capacity and performance. It is like a shrinking gas tank. you can still fill it up, it just cannot store as much fuel.
I have a few of the small Costco lithium jump starter packs. Nearly all of them have failed over the last few years. When they were new, 3-4 starts were possible. Even my impossible to start ATV (no gas in carb) would crank nicely with the pack for 20 seconds or so before the pack depleted and it quit.
Small aircraft owners tend to get Lithium Iron Phosphate type jump starter packs. Much safer.
http://www.energybattery.com/products-services/lifepo4-jump-starter/
Small aircraft owners tend to get Lithium Iron Phosphate type jump starter packs. Much safer.
http://www.energybattery.com/products-services/lifepo4-jump-starter/
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