Great post. I'm looking forward to more Qs&As.
Fuel Tanker Driver Here
- Thread starter GoldDot40
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Originally Posted by bubbatime
So the cheaper store brand/smaller stations fuels are just selling the base gasoline as it comes from the fuel terminal with no additional additives?
No
Quote
The difference between branded vs unbranded is the quality level of the additive package used. Nearly all branded gas falls under Top Tier requirements. Unbranded product gets more generic additives...but still distributed by a big name supplier. Even still, with all the EPA regulations, even unbranded gasoline has to meet the standards to be sold.
So the cheaper store brand/smaller stations fuels are just selling the base gasoline as it comes from the fuel terminal with no additional additives?
No
Quote
The difference between branded vs unbranded is the quality level of the additive package used. Nearly all branded gas falls under Top Tier requirements. Unbranded product gets more generic additives...but still distributed by a big name supplier. Even still, with all the EPA regulations, even unbranded gasoline has to meet the standards to be sold.
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Independent stations often have a branded marquee. That's what they are selling. If a store doesn't have a specified brand, it gets "soup of the day". Basically a non-branded product that is distributed through one of the big brands.
Marathon branded or Marathon unbranded.
Around here, all Marathon-branded stations are privately-owned and I presume they license the Marathon name. What you're saying is they absolutely are selling Marathon fuel though. This is in Ohio, by the way. I know you mentioned state agencies, regulations, etc previously so it might vary and if you don't know Ohio's rules, well, I understand. On the topic of Marathon, they are supposed to be a Top Tier brand but no Marathon station I've ran across (a dozen or so ?) have TT stickers on their pumps. To be frank, the majority of Marathon stations aren't the nicest looking places so I have only purchased fuel at them minimal times.
Marathon stations are (I believe 100%) franchise, while Speedway stores are wholly owned by Marathon Petroleum Corp. There was an activist investor push a few years back to spin off Speedway, but MPC decided to keep them.
I'm also interested in grocery store gasoline. I fill up frequently at a grocery store and have always wondered where the product comes from. So any one day it might be a different generic major brand product?
Thank you for answering all these questions. I'm sure it is frustrating to hear a bunch of know-it-alls make up nonsense about gasoline logistics, so thank you for helping sort things out.
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Independent stations often have a branded marquee. That's what they are selling. If a store doesn't have a specified brand, it gets "soup of the day". Basically a non-branded product that is distributed through one of the big brands.
Marathon branded or Marathon unbranded.
Around here, all Marathon-branded stations are privately-owned and I presume they license the Marathon name. What you're saying is they absolutely are selling Marathon fuel though. This is in Ohio, by the way. I know you mentioned state agencies, regulations, etc previously so it might vary and if you don't know Ohio's rules, well, I understand. On the topic of Marathon, they are supposed to be a Top Tier brand but no Marathon station I've ran across (a dozen or so ?) have TT stickers on their pumps. To be frank, the majority of Marathon stations aren't the nicest looking places so I have only purchased fuel at them minimal times.
Marathon stations are (I believe 100%) franchise, while Speedway stores are wholly owned by Marathon Petroleum Corp. There was an activist investor push a few years back to spin off Speedway, but MPC decided to keep them.
I'm also interested in grocery store gasoline. I fill up frequently at a grocery store and have always wondered where the product comes from. So any one day it might be a different generic major brand product?
Thank you for answering all these questions. I'm sure it is frustrating to hear a bunch of know-it-alls make up nonsense about gasoline logistics, so thank you for helping sort things out.
I know that each station pump has a filter. What kind of filtering process does the gasoline go through leaving the bulk tanks and arriving at the gas station tanks?
Describe the biggest goof or interesting incident you have made delivering fuel (we all have one).
Describe the biggest goof or interesting incident you have made delivering fuel (we all have one).
Originally Posted by VetteElite
Marathon stations are (I believe 100%) franchise, while Speedway stores are wholly owned by Marathon Petroleum Corp. There was an activist investor push a few years back to spin off Speedway, but MPC decided to keep them.
I probably buy most of my fuel at Speedway but I've tried to stop doing so as much lately. One reason is they [censored] me off the way they jack prices up 30c to 50c in a single day and most other stations follow suit and the second is, at least with the Speedway in our small town, their prices are always 25-40c higher than other Speedways in the next (larger) towns over. The few other stations in our town match their pricing too.
Regarding what fuel they get, as we're finding out from GoldDot40, the name on the tanker doesn't mean a whole lot. Speedway has their own branded tankers or I've seen Marathon-branded tankers filling their tanks. I do want to say that the Speedway tankers are typically pulled by a Marathon tractor though so it's nothing more than a rolling billboard in that sense.
I do have to wonder now, since Speedway isn't a fuel processor, can they sell any brand of fuel from their stations ? Or does their Marathon ownership dictate it is in fact Marathon fuel ?
Marathon stations are (I believe 100%) franchise, while Speedway stores are wholly owned by Marathon Petroleum Corp. There was an activist investor push a few years back to spin off Speedway, but MPC decided to keep them.
I probably buy most of my fuel at Speedway but I've tried to stop doing so as much lately. One reason is they [censored] me off the way they jack prices up 30c to 50c in a single day and most other stations follow suit and the second is, at least with the Speedway in our small town, their prices are always 25-40c higher than other Speedways in the next (larger) towns over. The few other stations in our town match their pricing too.
Regarding what fuel they get, as we're finding out from GoldDot40, the name on the tanker doesn't mean a whole lot. Speedway has their own branded tankers or I've seen Marathon-branded tankers filling their tanks. I do want to say that the Speedway tankers are typically pulled by a Marathon tractor though so it's nothing more than a rolling billboard in that sense.
I do have to wonder now, since Speedway isn't a fuel processor, can they sell any brand of fuel from their stations ? Or does their Marathon ownership dictate it is in fact Marathon fuel ?
So how do you physically "inject" the "package"? I assume you first put the quantity of gasoline in the compartment, then by some means read the instructions and measure the appropriate quantity from a drum and just pour it in the top? How much additive per 1000 gallons are we talking about?
What is the consistency of the additive package? Is it clear liquid or thick like pudding? Are two people involved to confirm that the quantity is correct?
What happens if you get to the station and the underground tanks get full before the ordered quantity is delivered? Who do you then give the left over to?
What is the consistency of the additive package? Is it clear liquid or thick like pudding? Are two people involved to confirm that the quantity is correct?
What happens if you get to the station and the underground tanks get full before the ordered quantity is delivered? Who do you then give the left over to?
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Regarding what fuel they get, as we're finding out from GoldDot40, the name on the tanker doesn't mean a whole lot. Speedway has their own branded tankers or I've seen Marathon-branded tankers filling their tanks. I do want to say that the Speedway tankers are typically pulled by a Marathon tractor though so it's nothing more than a rolling billboard in that sense.
I do have to wonder now, since Speedway isn't a fuel processor, can they sell any brand of fuel from their stations ? Or does their Marathon ownership dictate it is in fact Marathon fuel ?
In my area Carson Oil and Christensen Fuels distribute all the major name brands even though the name on the sides of their trucks say "Christensen Fuels".
"Speedway" is a convenience store brand and is a wholly owned subsidiary of Marathon; so yes it sells Marathon branded gas.
Regarding what fuel they get, as we're finding out from GoldDot40, the name on the tanker doesn't mean a whole lot. Speedway has their own branded tankers or I've seen Marathon-branded tankers filling their tanks. I do want to say that the Speedway tankers are typically pulled by a Marathon tractor though so it's nothing more than a rolling billboard in that sense.
I do have to wonder now, since Speedway isn't a fuel processor, can they sell any brand of fuel from their stations ? Or does their Marathon ownership dictate it is in fact Marathon fuel ?
In my area Carson Oil and Christensen Fuels distribute all the major name brands even though the name on the sides of their trucks say "Christensen Fuels".
"Speedway" is a convenience store brand and is a wholly owned subsidiary of Marathon; so yes it sells Marathon branded gas.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by user52165
For the OP:
Any experience with Costco?
For example - they claim they mix the additives at each site.
He already answered that:
Quote
Additives are injected during the loading process...not by the retailer. Just FYI.
For the OP:
Any experience with Costco?
For example - they claim they mix the additives at each site.
He already answered that:
Quote
Additives are injected during the loading process...not by the retailer. Just FYI.
GoldDot40, Thank You for joining this site. From reading your answers you have cleared up a ton of misinformation, for me at least.
Originally Posted by wensteph
How does your terminal handle additives? Is there an above ground storage tank for each additive "brand"? In your 6,000 gallon delivery to Marathon, that might call for only 3 to 10 gallons of additive by the loading system.
Gasoline and diesel additives are a big business. Lubrizol has many customers for product and it is owned by Berkshire Hathaway. Infineum is jointly owned by XOM and Shell so I assume both Exxon/Mobil and Shell would get an Infineum addtive. Chevron owns Oronite, so an Oronite additive should be in Chevron/Texaco fuel. Once you get below the majors, I can see the terminal wholesaling RUG with a standard additive package from, say, Lubrizol or Afton to all of the independents in the area.
Savannah is not on a pipeline and everything comes in by ship to Colonial Oil (not the same as Colonial Pipeline) and is wholesaled out from their tank farm. The only difference in product for this market, from branded to the most obscure, is the additive package added at the terminal.
Yes, there are individual holding tanks for each brand's additive.
How does your terminal handle additives? Is there an above ground storage tank for each additive "brand"? In your 6,000 gallon delivery to Marathon, that might call for only 3 to 10 gallons of additive by the loading system.
Gasoline and diesel additives are a big business. Lubrizol has many customers for product and it is owned by Berkshire Hathaway. Infineum is jointly owned by XOM and Shell so I assume both Exxon/Mobil and Shell would get an Infineum addtive. Chevron owns Oronite, so an Oronite additive should be in Chevron/Texaco fuel. Once you get below the majors, I can see the terminal wholesaling RUG with a standard additive package from, say, Lubrizol or Afton to all of the independents in the area.
Savannah is not on a pipeline and everything comes in by ship to Colonial Oil (not the same as Colonial Pipeline) and is wholesaled out from their tank farm. The only difference in product for this market, from branded to the most obscure, is the additive package added at the terminal.
Yes, there are individual holding tanks for each brand's additive.
Originally Posted by Burt
So how do you physically "inject" the "package"? I assume you first put the quantity of gasoline in the compartment, then by some means read the instructions and measure the appropriate quantity from a drum and just pour it in the top? How much additive per 1000 gallons are we talking about?
What is the consistency of the additive package? Is it clear liquid or thick like pudding? Are two people involved to confirm that the quantity is correct?
What happens if you get to the station and the underground tanks get full before the ordered quantity is delivered? Who do you then give the left over to?
It is injected through an automatic system that is checked/calibrated every set amount of weeks. Also, the terminal operators will randomly take samples from tankers after they are loaded to check the quality of the product.
So how do you physically "inject" the "package"? I assume you first put the quantity of gasoline in the compartment, then by some means read the instructions and measure the appropriate quantity from a drum and just pour it in the top? How much additive per 1000 gallons are we talking about?
What is the consistency of the additive package? Is it clear liquid or thick like pudding? Are two people involved to confirm that the quantity is correct?
What happens if you get to the station and the underground tanks get full before the ordered quantity is delivered? Who do you then give the left over to?
It is injected through an automatic system that is checked/calibrated every set amount of weeks. Also, the terminal operators will randomly take samples from tankers after they are loaded to check the quality of the product.
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
GoldDot40,
How accurate is the octane the consumer gets at the pump ?
Is there an acceptable + / - percentage of accuracy ?
Welcome to BITOG.
It's pretty accurate if you look at how it's broken down on the Bill of Laden/Freight manifest. There is a +/- % window that is considered acceptable by all standards. I've never seen one load out of spec that was loaded correctly.
There are times when a driver works while distracted and may preset the load incorrectly. So if I have a 2100 gallon compartment and accidentally preset the system for 3100 gallons, it's going to pump 310 gallons of ethanol...so if I catch it and stop the loading at 2100 gallons, now it is out of spec. I cannot deliver product that far off. I can't even get a legit manifest. The terminal operator will bring out a big red stamp and will stamp your manifest "OUT OF SPEC" before he hands it to you. That is a nightmare all in itself.
GoldDot40,
How accurate is the octane the consumer gets at the pump ?
Is there an acceptable + / - percentage of accuracy ?
Welcome to BITOG.
It's pretty accurate if you look at how it's broken down on the Bill of Laden/Freight manifest. There is a +/- % window that is considered acceptable by all standards. I've never seen one load out of spec that was loaded correctly.
There are times when a driver works while distracted and may preset the load incorrectly. So if I have a 2100 gallon compartment and accidentally preset the system for 3100 gallons, it's going to pump 310 gallons of ethanol...so if I catch it and stop the loading at 2100 gallons, now it is out of spec. I cannot deliver product that far off. I can't even get a legit manifest. The terminal operator will bring out a big red stamp and will stamp your manifest "OUT OF SPEC" before he hands it to you. That is a nightmare all in itself.
Originally Posted by SLO_Town
OP, welcome.
Something I've always wondered during these crazy times - I've always assumed you tanker drivers have background checks, etc. True? You are hauling a lot of mayhem.
Scott
Yes. We get our licenses renewed every 5 years. HAZMAT drivers have to get fingerprinted and have a background check done....AND retake the written HAZMAT test at the DMV....every 5 years.
OP, welcome.
Something I've always wondered during these crazy times - I've always assumed you tanker drivers have background checks, etc. True? You are hauling a lot of mayhem.
Scott
Yes. We get our licenses renewed every 5 years. HAZMAT drivers have to get fingerprinted and have a background check done....AND retake the written HAZMAT test at the DMV....every 5 years.
Originally Posted by doitmyself
I know that each station pump has a filter. What kind of filtering process does the gasoline go through leaving the bulk tanks and arriving at the gas station tanks?
Describe the biggest goof or interesting incident you have made delivering fuel (we all have one).
No filtration between the pipeline bulk tank and the tanker. The filters inside the retail pumps are very good...better than your vehicle's fuel filter.
I know that each station pump has a filter. What kind of filtering process does the gasoline go through leaving the bulk tanks and arriving at the gas station tanks?
Describe the biggest goof or interesting incident you have made delivering fuel (we all have one).
No filtration between the pipeline bulk tank and the tanker. The filters inside the retail pumps are very good...better than your vehicle's fuel filter.
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by VetteElite
Marathon stations are (I believe 100%) franchise, while Speedway stores are wholly owned by Marathon Petroleum Corp. There was an activist investor push a few years back to spin off Speedway, but MPC decided to keep them.
I probably buy most of my fuel at Speedway but I've tried to stop doing so as much lately. One reason is they [censored] me off the way they jack prices up 30c to 50c in a single day and most other stations follow suit and the second is, at least with the Speedway in our small town, their prices are always 25-40c higher than other Speedways in the next (larger) towns over. The few other stations in our town match their pricing too.
Regarding what fuel they get, as we're finding out from GoldDot40, the name on the tanker doesn't mean a whole lot. Speedway has their own branded tankers or I've seen Marathon-branded tankers filling their tanks. I do want to say that the Speedway tankers are typically pulled by a Marathon tractor though so it's nothing more than a rolling billboard in that sense.
I do have to wonder now, since Speedway isn't a fuel processor, can they sell any brand of fuel from their stations ? Or does their Marathon ownership dictate it is in fact Marathon fuel ?
A lot of corporate politics involved behind the scenes. Certain chains such as Speedway may have a contract through Marathon to only sell Marathon. However, if the store is unbranded, they may still sell Marathon Unbranded product...it's still Marathon...just with a generic additive package vs the premium quality package. All depends on their contract terms.
Circle K for instance are all over the place with brands. We have some Circle K sites that are branded Shell, branded ExxonMobil, branded BP and some branded Marathon. Then we have Circle K sites that are in fact unbranded. Some get Exxon unbranded, some get BP unbranded, some get Trafigura, etc, etc.
Originally Posted by VetteElite
Marathon stations are (I believe 100%) franchise, while Speedway stores are wholly owned by Marathon Petroleum Corp. There was an activist investor push a few years back to spin off Speedway, but MPC decided to keep them.
I probably buy most of my fuel at Speedway but I've tried to stop doing so as much lately. One reason is they [censored] me off the way they jack prices up 30c to 50c in a single day and most other stations follow suit and the second is, at least with the Speedway in our small town, their prices are always 25-40c higher than other Speedways in the next (larger) towns over. The few other stations in our town match their pricing too.
Regarding what fuel they get, as we're finding out from GoldDot40, the name on the tanker doesn't mean a whole lot. Speedway has their own branded tankers or I've seen Marathon-branded tankers filling their tanks. I do want to say that the Speedway tankers are typically pulled by a Marathon tractor though so it's nothing more than a rolling billboard in that sense.
I do have to wonder now, since Speedway isn't a fuel processor, can they sell any brand of fuel from their stations ? Or does their Marathon ownership dictate it is in fact Marathon fuel ?
A lot of corporate politics involved behind the scenes. Certain chains such as Speedway may have a contract through Marathon to only sell Marathon. However, if the store is unbranded, they may still sell Marathon Unbranded product...it's still Marathon...just with a generic additive package vs the premium quality package. All depends on their contract terms.
Circle K for instance are all over the place with brands. We have some Circle K sites that are branded Shell, branded ExxonMobil, branded BP and some branded Marathon. Then we have Circle K sites that are in fact unbranded. Some get Exxon unbranded, some get BP unbranded, some get Trafigura, etc, etc.
Originally Posted by user52165
For the OP:
Any experience with Costco?
For example - they claim they mix the additives at each site.
No experience with Costco. I've never delivered to one. I don't see why they would...but who knows. We don't have a local Costco around here for me to even ask another driver who would deliver to one.
For the OP:
Any experience with Costco?
For example - they claim they mix the additives at each site.
No experience with Costco. I've never delivered to one. I don't see why they would...but who knows. We don't have a local Costco around here for me to even ask another driver who would deliver to one.
Originally Posted by user52165
For the OP:
Any experience with Costco?
For example - they claim they mix the additives at each site.
http://www.neiwpcc.org/tanks2013old...l%20Additives_Hurlocker_2013_Tuesday.pdf
Pg 8
For the OP:
Any experience with Costco?
For example - they claim they mix the additives at each site.
http://www.neiwpcc.org/tanks2013old...l%20Additives_Hurlocker_2013_Tuesday.pdf
Pg 8
Originally Posted by Burt
So how do you physically "inject" the "package"? I assume you first put the quantity of gasoline in the compartment, then by some means read the instructions and measure the appropriate quantity from a drum and just pour it in the top? How much additive per 1000 gallons are we talking about?
Most fuel depots have all the "branded" fuel additives in tanks and all these pipes with automated dispensing equipment. TiredTrucker would post here that he couldn't really control any of that. He came there with a magnetic card that he would just swipe and everything had already been programmed - the fuel type, load, customer, etc. He said that typically the additive package was dispensed first, which then allowed the fuel to "splash blend" with the additive through mechanical action.
Costco is different in that they buy unadditized fuel and have a system to dispense the detergent into their tanks during delivery. Apparently the procedure is to enter the amount of fuel and then it would automatically dispense their additive in a standard concentration relative to the fuel. I don't know how accurate this is though, especially if a delivery is happening while customers are pumping fuel. There could be uneven concentrations unless they make sure it's only going to tanks that are taken offline during the delivery and then given enough time for the fuel to blend before customers start pumping from those tanks. During a typical splash blending it's going to be enough time from the fuel depot to the delivery for the additive to be mixed. Even if there are slight differences in concentration between the fuel in the tank and in the delivery, it shouldn't be too much of a difference.
So how do you physically "inject" the "package"? I assume you first put the quantity of gasoline in the compartment, then by some means read the instructions and measure the appropriate quantity from a drum and just pour it in the top? How much additive per 1000 gallons are we talking about?
Most fuel depots have all the "branded" fuel additives in tanks and all these pipes with automated dispensing equipment. TiredTrucker would post here that he couldn't really control any of that. He came there with a magnetic card that he would just swipe and everything had already been programmed - the fuel type, load, customer, etc. He said that typically the additive package was dispensed first, which then allowed the fuel to "splash blend" with the additive through mechanical action.
Costco is different in that they buy unadditized fuel and have a system to dispense the detergent into their tanks during delivery. Apparently the procedure is to enter the amount of fuel and then it would automatically dispense their additive in a standard concentration relative to the fuel. I don't know how accurate this is though, especially if a delivery is happening while customers are pumping fuel. There could be uneven concentrations unless they make sure it's only going to tanks that are taken offline during the delivery and then given enough time for the fuel to blend before customers start pumping from those tanks. During a typical splash blending it's going to be enough time from the fuel depot to the delivery for the additive to be mixed. Even if there are slight differences in concentration between the fuel in the tank and in the delivery, it shouldn't be too much of a difference.
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
GoldDot40,
How accurate is the octane the consumer gets at the pump ?
Is there an acceptable + / - percentage of accuracy ?
Welcome to BITOG.
It's pretty accurate if you look at how it's broken down on the Bill of Laden/Freight manifest. There is a +/- % window that is considered acceptable by all standards. I've never seen one load out of spec that was loaded correctly.
There are times when a driver works while distracted and may preset the load incorrectly. So if I have a 2100 gallon compartment and accidentally preset the system for 3100 gallons, it's going to pump 310 gallons of ethanol...so if I catch it and stop the loading at 2100 gallons, now it is out of spec. I cannot deliver product that far off. I can't even get a legit manifest. The terminal operator will bring out a big red stamp and will stamp your manifest "OUT OF SPEC" before he hands it to you. That is a nightmare all in itself.
they sell it as E30 or E85
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
GoldDot40,
How accurate is the octane the consumer gets at the pump ?
Is there an acceptable + / - percentage of accuracy ?
Welcome to BITOG.
It's pretty accurate if you look at how it's broken down on the Bill of Laden/Freight manifest. There is a +/- % window that is considered acceptable by all standards. I've never seen one load out of spec that was loaded correctly.
There are times when a driver works while distracted and may preset the load incorrectly. So if I have a 2100 gallon compartment and accidentally preset the system for 3100 gallons, it's going to pump 310 gallons of ethanol...so if I catch it and stop the loading at 2100 gallons, now it is out of spec. I cannot deliver product that far off. I can't even get a legit manifest. The terminal operator will bring out a big red stamp and will stamp your manifest "OUT OF SPEC" before he hands it to you. That is a nightmare all in itself.
they sell it as E30 or E85
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