Recent Topics
Fram PH/TG/XG3593a cut open
by SlavaB - 08/24/19 08:12 PM
Supertech vs OEM
by Bettez88 - 08/24/19 08:05 PM
Exxon Mobile Synergy Supreme Friction Modifier
by IndyFan - 08/24/19 07:50 PM
Toyota oil cap funnel
by Patrick0525 - 08/24/19 07:07 PM
STUMPED (2002 BMW X5)
by Kira - 08/24/19 05:43 PM
Turtle Wax Zip wash/wax...garbage!
by gregk24 - 08/24/19 05:41 PM
Does Super Lube Oil make Good Electric Motor Oil
by vortex - 08/24/19 04:40 PM
26 degree temp swing in 24 hours
by gman2304 - 08/24/19 04:12 PM
FEDERATED PG4459F CUT OPEN
by 53' Stude - 08/24/19 03:58 PM
Reverse mortgage questions.
by callbay - 08/24/19 03:45 PM
Moly vs No Moly
by Navi - 08/24/19 03:08 PM
M1 5W30 SN+ D1/G2 VOA ?
by ChrisD46 - 08/24/19 03:04 PM
Castrol 0w40 no longer LL-01 ?
by Ndx - 08/24/19 02:32 PM
Different TGMO bottles?
by gwiffer - 08/24/19 02:07 PM
Oil change before car sitting 1 year?
by clarkflower - 08/24/19 12:47 PM
Newest Members
EricTwoCamaros, Subie5w30, Iautox, Mayadi, YachtRocket
69055 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
100 registered members (117, 53' Stude, 2015_PSD, 77GrandPrix, Amersham, 8 invisible), 1,920 guests, and 25 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics293,746
Posts5,046,041
Members69,055
Most Online3,532
Jul 30th, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Hybrid-Keep or Trade #5167096 07/21/19 10:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,598
S
Spector Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,598
2012 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid, 72,000 miles. Hybrid battery warranty expires in May 2020 and estimated cost to replace is $4,000-$5,000. Basically, car is almost worthless if battery dies. I did not save enough in gas over the years (40 MPG) with only 72,000 miles on it. When I purchased the car I thought the price of gas would be $5/gal, obviously that has not happened. Question is, will the battery last another 3 + years or go soon after warranty. There seems to be no data on the Ford hybrid batteries as to life expectancy, Prius seems to be around 150,000 miles ( no age range though) so no info if age of battery has a bearing on making it. Can I go 15 years and 150,000 miles or maybe just 10 and 100,000. So, given the cost of replacement would you keep the car or trade it before the warranty expires? Runs great, love the 600+ mileage range with a full tank, no complaints about the vehicle but the cost of replacing that battery is a killer. Normally I would run the car (if just the gas engine) until it dies, certainly longer than 8 years.

So, take the risk that it will go at least another 3 years or dump it before warranty up?????

Re: Hybrid-Keep or Trade [Re: Spector] #5167104 07/21/19 10:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 23,047
Mr Nice Offline
Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 23,047
I’d trade it in for another vehicle.

Re: Hybrid-Keep or Trade [Re: Spector] #5167115 07/21/19 10:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,469
A
A_Harman Offline
Offline
A
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,469
When Ford first started building hybrids, they licensed Toyota's technology. So if they haven't done a lot of internal development, maybe the battery will last like the Prius'.
You are doing about 10k-miles a year with it, so I think you can safely go another 3 years, then sell it, and the new owner may get 50k.
Are there any tests that can be done on the battery to determine its health? Maybe that could be a regular maintenance thing, and when the battery loses X% of its capacity, it's time to off it. My opinion of "X" would be 10%.


1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck
Re: Hybrid-Keep or Trade [Re: Spector] #5167121 07/21/19 10:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,250
R
Rolla07 Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,250
Id dump it

Last edited by Rolla07; 07/21/19 10:32 AM.

2007 Corolla Red Pearl 155k miles
PP 0w20 & ST 4967
2015 Toyota Venza Parisian Blue Pearl 25k miles
TGMO 0W20 & OEM filter

Re: Hybrid-Keep or Trade [Re: Spector] #5167125 07/21/19 10:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,111
A
atikovi Offline
Offline
A
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,111
Originally Posted by Spector
Hybrid battery warranty expires in May 2020 and estimated cost to replace is $4,000-$5,000.


No aftermarket alternatives at half that?

Re: Hybrid-Keep or Trade [Re: Spector] #5167134 07/21/19 10:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 34,764
E
eljefino Online Content
Online Content
E
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 34,764
You're basically trying to time your market.

You want to sell before a potential loss. You don't know what time that is. You want security in your "investment" but a car is not an investment, it's a depreciating asset.

Go on craigslist and find some MKZ hybrids with blown batteries and see what they're trying to get for them.

Then figure out what your car is worth now, what it's worth outside of warranty, and what it's worth, dead, outside of warranty.

Seems like you're more afraid of losing money than the hassle of a dead car, too.

I've been on hand for three prius battery failures-- all were able to limp home. And all, knock wood, were fixed by disassembling and switching out $30 modules.

You say you like the car. I haven't driven an MKZ hybrid but I assume it does the normal engine stops at red lights. Would it drive you crazy to switch back to a conventional car that idles for no real purpose?

Re: Hybrid-Keep or Trade [Re: Spector] #5167150 07/21/19 11:03 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,197
S
supton Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,197
What would you get on trade-in, and what would you replace it with? I'm guessing that, if you were to buy another new (or nearly so) car, that the money spent would make a new OEM battery pack look like cheap money. Just a guess.

Then again, if this is chock-full of one-off items that are all expensive and no one in the aftermarket supports, there might be value in getting rid of it. Problem is, you just don't know if it'll run for 10 years without needing anything, just to spite you.

What's the worst that could happen if you just run it until the battery dies? Could you walk away getting pennies for it and not feel like you lost money?


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 187k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 153k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 209k, his
Re: Hybrid-Keep or Trade [Re: Spector] #5167159 07/21/19 11:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 529
M
macarose Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 529
The issue with the MKZ and the Fusion is not the batteries at all. Those are very durable. The important maintenance is getting the transmission serviced. Under severe duty those are known to eventually fail, and the cost of replacing one is incredibly expensive. You can go to car-part.com. Also the long term reliability of the MKZ is pretty solid.

http://dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Lincoln_MKZ.html

I would keep it and sell the . Your model has already gone through the bulk of its depreciation.

Last edited by macarose; 07/21/19 11:25 AM.
Re: Hybrid-Keep or Trade [Re: Spector] #5167194 07/21/19 11:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 336
F
Farnsworth Offline
Offline
F
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 336
Keep it at this point. There are a lot of salvage priuses etc that have sat in junk yards and the batteries get damaged, those later we hear about as failing but not the whole story. Your transmission is a Toyota type planetary gearset with no clutches. You have no alternator or starter to replace. Your brakes should last twice as long, or more,

Re: Hybrid-Keep or Trade [Re: Spector] #5167263 07/21/19 01:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,909
R
Rand Online Content
Online Content
R
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,909
looks like aftermarket options are available for under $2000


2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk 2.0T
Re: Hybrid-Keep or Trade [Re: Spector] #5167314 07/21/19 01:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,071
bdcardinal Online Content
Online Content
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,071
I can only speak for my dealer, but we have never sold a hybrid battery for failure, just ones damaged in collisions.


2014 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack
1995 Ford Mustang GT

Ford/Mazda Parts Counter
NRA Benefactor Member
Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: Hybrid-Keep or Trade [Re: Spector] #5167346 07/21/19 02:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,700
C
Cujet Offline
Offline
C
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,700
Originally Posted by Spector


So, take the risk that it will go at least another 3 years or dump it before warranty up?????


"IF" it were mine, I would sell it outright prior to key warranty expiration, instead of trading it, but any way you slice it, I'd be unloading it.

But not just for the battery risk. The electronics that drive the motors, and the motor/generators themselves do occasionally fail and they are exceedingly expensive. If, for example, the motor fries a winding in a year, to the tune of $4000, just how much longer do you expect that battery to last? At best, 3-5 years?

I'd rather not deal with the constant threat of expensive repairs. I truly believe hybrids are worth owning, but only while under warranty. Extended warr might be the right answer for new hybrid purchases.

It's not like a conventional car, where once you install a good replacement transmission, as long as the engine is healthy, it will continue to provide good service for many years to come. Early hybrids can be maintenance nightmares and I'm not convinced they make economic sense.

Cost per mile is a well known factor. Even the IRS knows what it is. Trying to lower cost per mile within a particular vehicle class is, at best, a very difficult task. New v used is never more than 5c per mile different. Or, about 8% in general terms.

Last edited by Cujet; 07/21/19 02:35 PM.

People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Hybrid-Keep or Trade [Re: Spector] #5167444 07/21/19 04:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 238
D
Direct_Rejection Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 238
Thanks everyone very much for this discussion. I have been a contract delivery driver all of my adult life and vehicle choice is the one huge business decision I must always make.

Right now, I am considering trading in my Taco on a Rav4...2016 to 2018 Hybrid or 2019 4cylinder or 2019 Hybrid.

I have put 1.5 million miles on Toyota trucks, and 275k miles on two different PriusC's. I have run the gamut in considering durability, cargo area, MPG's, and safety. I was miraculously not killed in a head on collision, PriusC vs Dodge Ram 4x4, so it was time to go back to driving a tank. I spend $10k to $15k or so on gas per year.

Furthermore, I have had many, many conversations with Uber/Lyft drivers, fellow contractor delivery drivers, and SFO taxi drivers (the City of SF gives a financial boost to SF taxi drivers w/Hybrids.) We always all run into each other at a certain ARCO gas station near SFO, known for its low gas price, and its nearby video camera, red light ticket spewing machine.

Hybrid batteries have been known to last 400k mile+. The planetary transmission is nearly bulletproof. Brakes last forever. Depreciation ends well before car life ends--a tax bonus, as depreciation is a big part of the equation in the IRS standard mileage deduction formula calculation.

OP, I strongly suggest you drive your MKZ Hybrid until it completely croaks, and don't look back. Then you can reassess what to do next. My prediction is you will get very satisfactory ROI. Gas prices may be different. Cost of Hybrid battery replacement might not be so painful.

Hope this helps.
Regards, Mill.

BTW I have also considered a Honda Civic Hatchback. This is the 1.5L TGDI Car of the Year, with the concurrent recently extended drivetrain warranty. LOL.
Negatory. I would have to change my username to "Fully Diluted."


grin


2018 Tacoma 2.7L
EDGE HM 0W20
@ 141k miles
Re: Hybrid-Keep or Trade [Re: Spector] #5167504 07/21/19 06:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 7,083
W
Wolf359 Offline
Offline
W
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 7,083
Looks like those battery packs on eBay currently go for somewhere around $400 used. Price may drop or move up a little in the future. Used is always cheaper than a new pack from the dealer. Plus the car is already used. Also with Prius, it's usually a couple of dead cells so you can normally just replace the dead cells instead of the entire battery pack.

You are probably better off keeping it.

Re: Hybrid-Keep or Trade [Re: Spector] #5167506 07/21/19 06:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,598
S
Spector Offline OP
OP Offline
S
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,598
One of the reasons I chose the Lincoln back when was they did not have a surcharge on a hybrid, same cost as a 100% gas engine. Now, Toyota did charge more and still charges like 800-1000 for the RAV 4 hybrid over a gas engine and that is another 3 years to break even at todays gas prices at 15,000 miles a year. Unless you put a ton of miles on a vehicle I no longer think hybrids are cost effective, simply not worth the cost IMO. If you live in a cold climate or very hot the MPG on a hybrids plummets in the cold and the A/C kills it in the heat, Best temp is between 50-80 degrees or so for optimum MPG. Then , if you have to replace the battery, definitely not cost effective. When I lived in a colder climate the MPG dropped by a good 4 MPG and if I lived in FLA with the a/c all the time it would be even less. Rain affects the MPG significantly as well, heavy rain will drop the MPG by 4-6 MPG as you plow through the water.

Appreciate all of your comments, those after market battery replacements do not seem to get great reviews, they replace individual cells and it seems that a year later another one goes. I am still deciding but also test driving several vehicles as a replacement possibility. I wish there was more data out there on batteries but other than Toyota, no one else has really sold a ton of the hybrids. My daughter had her 10 year old Prius battery replaced last year at 150,000 or so miles, a 2008 model. $2,000 plus installation and tax. I wish someone could answer the question of is it primarily miles on the battery and when or does age come in to play.

Hyundai currently warranties the hybrid battery for life, but only the battery, All other hybrid components get the standard 10 years or 100,000 mile warranty.

Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™