Constant pressure well system fluctuating

[LeakySeals]

So my 20 year old househ as well water and uses a Franklin monodrive constant pressure system. Well, it's fluctuating similar to how a regular pressure tank and pressure switch would operate. Is anybody familiar with constant pressure systems? And in general what should I do first to check fluctuating pressure?? Should I check the pressure tank to see if it's holding air? How many psi should be in there? It's a 20 gallon V60 I don't know how old it is. At least 10 years.

 

[walterjay]

I work on constant pressure Grundfos systems and they are very different animals than a regular system. Fluctuating pressure is usually caused by a bad sensor. In your case I can't be certain. Look on line and see if you can download a manual for your specific system. Otherwise it is hit and miss and you may need a pro.

 

[CT8]

So your pump is 20 years old? I would call the well guy.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted by walterjay
I work on constant pressure Grundfos systems and they are very different animals than a regular system. Fluctuating pressure is usually caused by a bad sensor. In your case I can't be certain. Look on line and see if you can download a manual for your specific system. Otherwise it is hit and miss and you may need a pro.

I found the manual online and the troubleshooting section said check the pressure of the tank. I turned off the pump and drained all the water in the house and this is what I got. I should be seeing some pressure right?

 

[another Todd]

I think you should have more pressure than that, doesn't you downloaded manual say?

 

[walterjay]

The pressure is too low. But you need to see what the manual says to set it at. Normally 38 psi but yours could be different.

 

[PimTac]

Fill the tank back up with water and use something to depress the center where you measured the pressure. If water comes out the tank is done for. The bladder has ruptured. I had this happen a couple of times.

 

[Rand]

bladder/membrane has a hole in it

If this was a normal pump system I'd say:
For temp fix air it up to about 28psi
This will normally last a month or so.

replace the well pressure tank. they usually last around 5-15 years depending on quality of the tank and the water.

Since I'm not familiar with your type of constant pressure you need to replace your tank but how much air goes in the bladder can vary.

I have done 4 in the last 4 years. In fact just did one last saturday.

P.S. why does bitog turn photos sideways?

 

[Fitter30]

Since it still is working? I would pull and maybe replace pressure sensor. But 20 year old system it's probably time for a pump, controls ad expansion tank.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted by another Todd
I think you should have more pressure than that, doesn't you downloaded manual say?

It integrates to the existing system so it doesn't talk much about it. But it does say 70% of whatever pressure I set the constant pressure at

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Fill the tank back up with water and use something to depress the center where you measured the pressure. If water comes out the tank is done for. The bladder has ruptured. I had this happen a couple of times.

I did it for a while and air kept coming out no water. Should I try pumping it up

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by LeakySeals
Originally Posted by PimTac
Fill the tank back up with water and use something to depress the center where you measured the pressure. If water comes out the tank is done for. The bladder has ruptured. I had this happen a couple of times.

I did it for a while and air kept coming out no water. Should I try pumping it up





This may be a totally different system than I have had experience with. If the tank does have a bladder then there should be pressure at all times. When the pump fills the tank (bladder inside) with water that compresses that pressure.

Bad solenoid? You should hear a loud click whenever the pump comes on. If the solenoid is clicking like a typewriter then that would be a sign. Also any sensor.

Another possibility is that the tank is leaking from the outside and the bladder is still intact.

Im just throwing out some ideas. It's hard to say on a Internet forum what might be wrong and your system has some things that are unfamiliar to me.

 

[Sonic]

My constant pressure system was acting goofy. At one point there was no water at all coming out of any tap in the house. I messed with it all but couldn't figure out where the problem was. Had to call a well guy. He came out and diagnosed it quickly. The pressure sensor had gone bad.

 

[LeakySeals]

It's a custom pressure sensor for Franklin products as far as I can tell. I turned off the pump removed all the water in the house even ran a hose from the T. Then I brought my compressor over and filled it up. Now it's rock solid pressure like before. I'll monitor it and see if the pressure goes down.

I'd like to put a gauge on permanently to monitor the pressure tank do they sell one that screws on a Schrader valve or somehow?

 

[LeakySeals]

Its been a tough few weeks. First the central AC gives me issues. Thanks to this forum its fixed. Running great through 95F heat today.

Now, the well is acting up. The pressure tank is holding air. But where did it go? Assumption is a small leak. So I'm going to order that, along with a T and sensor that goes with the unit. Thanks again everyone for the help.

Anyone interested read on..

The Franklin Monodrive and pump unit has several features. One is constant pressure. Really doesn't use the pressure tank. No drawdown. Its just used as a buffer for the second it takes to cycle and maintain pressure and figure out how much power is needed. So, the pump starts a lot. But, its a low energy "soft start". Turns on low, then adjust for a faucet, or my lawn sprinklers. Whatever it takes to maintain 55 PSI, its current setting. I had it set to 65 PSI before, but my Orbit sprinkler heads kept popping out it was so strong.

Another feature is a low water sensor. If the well gets low and the pump catches any air, it senses the rpm and heat, it knows and kills power to the pump for a period of time, then displays a red flashing light that flashes codes. It starts with a minute. Then if thats not long enough for the well to recover and submerge the pump, it waits longer. It learns. Remembers the wells yield.

And yet another setting. Deep and shallow wells. If you pick deep well setting and its a shallow well, its too sensitive and keeps shutting down the water. Which happens on occasion. So its either my yield is decreasing, or i don't have the right sensitivity setting.

What is considered a shallow, or deep well. Is there a standard? My well is approx 120'

some pics.

Everything

 

[Rand]

your tank most likely has a hole or tear in the pressure bladder.

Another way to tell is turn off the well pump.. run the tub or some other heavy water use(hose to drain is ok too).. if you hear air start shooting out in your lines you definitely have a bad tank.

you can use it with a bad tank for months but gradually the water will absorb air out of the tank and become waterlogged again.

to properly air it up you need to drain the tank fully.. which might require you to add air(due to bad tank) once you hear air coming out in the line shut off the water at the tank
If you have normal continuous system pressure of around 40psi I would think around 25-30psi in the tank would be decent as the air fills the whole tank and not just the bladder/membrane side.

this should keep it going ok for a few months until you replace the tank which is usually a very easy job but sometimes it can be difficult due to how its installed.

For example my last replacement the brass tee had a sweated on fitting (soldered) on one side and plastic on the other

I ended up cutting the brass tee and unscrewing from the soldered fitting on the pipe.. then spinning on a new 2pc brass tee.. etc. but its usually not that hard.

you should be fine with the 20gal pressure tank for around $140 you might be fine with a smaller one usually constant pressure use a small tank but you can retrofit them into a system with a larger tank and have 0 issues as well.

I'm not even close to an expert but I've done quite a few of these.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted by Rand
your tank most likely has a hole or tear in the pressure bladder.

Another way to tell is turn off the well pump.. run the tub or some other heavy water use(hose to drain is ok too).. if you hear air start shooting out in your lines you definitely have a bad tank.

you can use it with a bad tank for months but gradually the water will absorb air out of the tank and become waterlogged again.

to properly air it up you need to drain the tank fully.. which might require you to add air(due to bad tank) once you hear air coming out in the line shut off the water at the tank
If you have normal continuous system pressure of around 40psi I would think around 25-30psi in the tank would be decent as the air fills the whole tank and not just the bladder/membrane side.

this should keep it going ok for a few months until you replace the tank which is usually a very easy job but sometimes it can be difficult due to how its installed.

For example my last replacement the brass tee had a sweated on fitting (soldered) on one side and plastic on the other

I ended up cutting the brass tee and unscrewing from the soldered fitting on the pipe.. then spinning on a new 2pc brass tee.. etc. but its usually not that hard.

you should be fine with the 20gal pressure tank for around $140 you might be fine with a smaller one usually constant pressure use a small tank but you can retrofit them into a system with a larger tank and have 0 issues as well.

I'm not even close to an expert but I've done quite a few of these.


Wow thanks for the info. Can you tell me if this is a sweated on Tee? The shutoff valve to the house I see tape, but I can't clean off that goop.

The one way valve well side.

 

[Rand]

Yes its a soldered fitting on the house side and threaded on the ball valve side.

If I were going to do that job I'd use a new brass tee and get the 2 piece with the oring.. would make the job easy and no need to do actual plumbing(with torch) or rig it up with a different type of connector.

Disclaimer I'm not a plumber I just fix these things mostly for friends and family.

https://www.amazon.com/BRASS-LEAD-P...d=1563726085&s=industrial&sr=8-7

you would get the one with the nut in the middle of the center pipe

BRASS NO LEAD 1 x 11 with union

being able to disconnect it there you can spin your sensor, and accessories on then connect it to tank with nut..

if you get one without a union you will most likely have to solder on a new threaded end on the house side.. to get it all connected... unless this is a foot in the air where you could spin the whole 1 piece brass tee with 11" pipe (doesnt look like it from your pic)

install with a different type of connector such as a threaded to clamp style you can tighten without spinning.(this type looks rigged)

IF you want to reuse your current brass tee (wouldnt recommend) you would definitely need to remove the soldered house side connection.. could maybe substitute with a sharkbite fitting but I am not a fan of those.

If any of this scares you.. should probably just pay someone to do it..

 

[PimTac]

The brass tee you refer to, is that really brass? It looks like regular galvanized iron pipe.

If so, wouldn't a dielectric union between the galvanized and copper be the appropriate connection?

It's been a while but that setup is very similar to what I had. A union was used for ease of disconnection in case the tank had to be replaced.